So my garage build is slowly coming to a head. My minor plot plan is approved by my community and the county and it's time to submit for permits. The response from the fire dept on my minor plot plan says that I need to have a 6" x 4" x 2.5" fire hydrant 250' from the farthest point of my property. I have a fire hydrant actually at the street but it a 4" hydrant. Spoke with the water dept today and they said it my responsibility to have the correct hydrant installed and the price is about $10k. I am wondering if any of you out there have had to deal with this. Wondering why I have to pay for a fire hydrant that all my neighbors will be able to use at no cost????? Any loopholes that I can to to avoid to pay this myself? Any advice would be appreciated because this just put a serious cramp on my budget. Thanks
Paying for a fire hydrant
- Thread starter Zogman
- Start date
Fyrme
Well-known member
Maybe it is a So. Cal thing but the fire dept doesn't have the authority to tell you that you have to install a hydrant unless it is a commercial property with a public occupancy. If its residential, I'd tell them to pound sand. If it's commercial, you must comply with fire codes. I'm not fully up on NFPA codes but 1000' or less is standard for hydrant location. That is why fire trucks carry a minimum of 1000' of hose. In rural areas around here, they only use hydrants to refill tankers since the pumps on the trucks will **** the water lines dry in a matter of minutes.
Last edited:
That happened to a client of mine. The FPD allowed him to have us install a monitored fire alarm system in lieu of a closer fire hydrant. It turned out to be FAR cheaper ten years out even considering ongoing monitoring costs. Might that be a possibility for you? The Fire Marshall of your local Fire Protection District is usually the final authority. Check with him - though your insurance company will also have a say, though monetarily rather than statutorily.
Ray-CA
Well-known member
I had to add a fire suppression (sprinkler) system to our soon to start build. The City has said that any building of 500-sqft or more is required to have such a system. Thankfully, I only have to run an 1.5 inch water line to the building to hook up to the sprinkler.
Maybe you can check and see if you can add a sprinkler system instead of a 10K hydrant?
Ray
Maybe you can check and see if you can add a sprinkler system instead of a 10K hydrant?
Ray
trainer
Well-known member
I can see thier point. They need to have enough GPM available to suppress a fully involved fire in your proposed structure. There's a formula to calculate what is needed and if the supply isn't sufficient, then a fire could spread quickly, endangering surrounding property and putting lives at risk.
I'm guessing that you got a variance to build a bigger garage than your property would normally be zoned for, or closer to other structures than usual.
Why should your neighbours have to share the costs of upgrading the infrastructure just so you can have a bigger garage?
I'm guessing that you got a variance to build a bigger garage than your property would normally be zoned for, or closer to other structures than usual.
Why should your neighbours have to share the costs of upgrading the infrastructure just so you can have a bigger garage?
slip knot
Well-known member
I dont have a clue as to the cost of things in Cali. but 10k seems kinda high for a FH changeout. Call the water authority and see just exactly what your paying for. It may be worth your while to see if you can hire an independant contractor to install the FH for you. Its been 20+ yrs since I worked with FH but I would think the 6" would require a larger main than the 4". Find out if the current main will carry the 6" FH.
I am in a high fire threat area. Lake Elsinore to be exact and my house borders the forest. I'm having the water dept check the GPM's of my hydrant and hopefully it will meet the needs of what the fire dept is requiring.
Thanks
Thanks
Best of luck with your flow test. I'm building a jail in the high desert right now where we failed ours. For my project, those consequences are costing the project a huge amount of money.
Btw, I'm just over in woodcrest, howdy neighbor. If they give you too much grief, let me know. I have some good friends at Cal Fire that have the ability to suggest other solutions if they exist.
Btw, I'm just over in woodcrest, howdy neighbor. If they give you too much grief, let me know. I have some good friends at Cal Fire that have the ability to suggest other solutions if they exist.
denis4x4
Well-known member
Had a similar situation and went to the county planning department and asked to see the original plat plan for the subdivision. The original plan submitted for county approval showed a FH in front of my house. The developer failed to install the FH as he did the buildout in phases. When I pointed out that the county approved the original plat, they were obligated to install the FH. Turns out that they installed three that were on the original plat but never installed.
porschedude996TT
Well-known member
Jail! What does a Jail need a Fire Hydrant? LOL Wouldn't it be cost effective, although Politically Incorrect, to let it burn and the furnish and repopulate?
Of course all the staff would need to get out first.
aka Larry
Well-known member
It must be due to the size of the structure in your case is the only thing I can figure, but I've never seen a restriction on a residential property. Here in my city, the hydrants have to be no further than 600' apart on the city streets, and one is required at the end of any cul-de-sac as well as each intersection. Also $10K for hydrant change is waaaaaay over priced! Call a local utility contractor and ask what they charge.
Automatic Slim
Well-known member
Is this for real? 
I would contact my "representative" for the area I live in. Meaning a commissioner, or whatever you have for a governing representative. If its county water, I'd expect that a reasonable person would assume they provide fire protection. That said, if this is a business development, you are on the hook most likely.
Those must be GOLDEN hydrants.
Automatic Slim
Well-known member
The plug probably cost 500$, add another 500$ for install - the REST is all permit and government fees........ really?
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Some of you guys are underestimating the cost of fire hydrants. Also, the OP insinuates that additional line might be required by saying that the new hydrant must be a max of 250' from any location on his property. Extending water mains is very expensive. If the water utility requires all of this to be done hot, the price increases again. Then add in the additional costs incurred by doing business in California, and $10K sounds in line.... It does seem strange that instillation of a fire hydrant would be required for residential use. Maybe the fire dept saw the building, and just assumed it was commercial due to building size...?
Periodic
Member
Contractors rate for a 6" fed hydrant up here in Canada, installed (excavation, bedding, lead pipe, valve, denzo wrap, backfill and paint) is around 4500.
pmiranda
Well-known member
If you have to bring in a bigger line to service the hydrant, I can see the costs skyrocketing. Laying pipe can get real expensive. Sounds like the locality is treating you like a developer and not a homeowner :-(
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Yeah, I've never seen a residential requirement for a hydrant... Commercial is a totally different thing though... I guess that's what you get for living in California...
Besides, if it catches on fire they will probably just contain the fire and let it burn to the ground anyhow.
Besides, if it catches on fire they will probably just contain the fire and let it burn to the ground anyhow.
Seems bassackwards that this fire hydrant upsize "requirement" is coming AFTER the bigger house was built?? That house the only one in area?? Shouldn't your taxes be paying for fire protection that is requirement of the city/state (sizing is THEIR problem)??
What if you had your own water source from roof runoff collected like the GJ thread for guy in Australia??
I agree CNG. Their requirement is 1000 GPM for 2 hours so can't collect enough water for that kind of a requirement. I'm working with the water dept right now and they are researching the current plumbing to the fire hydrant. Exactly to your point, why wasn't this updated when the house was built or when the developer laid down the lines? Crazy I tell ya!!!!
Kels
Well-known member
That's a bad surprise! If they make you do something maybe you can do the sprinkler system Father In-Law was a fire fighter and said he NEVER saw a building burn down that had a sprinkler system so if you can do that cheaper and have to do something maybe they will let you do that instead. Seems like that should be a city thing not a home owner thing, but what do I know!
I'm in the unincorporated county and have a private well.
My shop build required I install a private hydrant with 10k of water storage AND a sprinkler system with additional, separate 3k of water.
I try not to think about the additional expense (~$15k+), but since I did the majority of the work, I know I put a ridiculous number of hours in. Turnkey would have been closer to $30k.
It seems to me that the domestic fire prevention requirements in CA are getting a bit out of control.
My shop build required I install a private hydrant with 10k of water storage AND a sprinkler system with additional, separate 3k of water.
I try not to think about the additional expense (~$15k+), but since I did the majority of the work, I know I put a ridiculous number of hours in. Turnkey would have been closer to $30k.
It seems to me that the domestic fire prevention requirements in CA are getting a bit out of control.
JakeKohl
Well-known member
I'm betting you can't buy the fire hydrant hardware alone for $500.
jayz66ragtop
Well-known member
Been there and done that in the high desert. code requirements changed form the time my dad started building the garage to the time it was finished (probably 10 years or a little more). No hydrant required as there was a 4" two acre parcels over when he started. When garage was finished, new permits had to be pulled and they required a hydrant across the street as the 4" was no longer sufficient for the neighborhood. Made my mom pay for a 6" main to be ran and a hydrant installed. City said when the adjacent lots get developed she would see a portion returned to her. Yeah, right. I think it was about $4500 but that was back in 1992 or so.
Keep in mind that 10K pays for three or four "workers", a supervisor, an inspection, a back hoe operator, a back hoe operator supervisor, two or three shovel supporters, lunch breaks, smoke breaks, lunch smoke breaks, travel time, two or three company trucks wear and tear, etc...
Keep in mind that 10K pays for three or four "workers", a supervisor, an inspection, a back hoe operator, a back hoe operator supervisor, two or three shovel supporters, lunch breaks, smoke breaks, lunch smoke breaks, travel time, two or three company trucks wear and tear, etc...
ishiboo
Well-known member
Not if you wear a rubber...
DHS
Well-known member
For a wet tap, valve and hydrant I think $10,000 dont sound too bad. Price of parts can really jack the price up. Not sure if they would require a wet tap or if they would let a contractor have the water down.
trainer
Well-known member
What are the dimensions of your proposed garage, anyway?
I like that jhelrey, I like that alot 
Garage is 50 x 70 "L" shaped 2500 square feet.
More bad news today. Water district sasy water main in the street is 6" but only 4" going to the hydrant. That means engineering and digging to replace 4" with 6" to hydrant plus the Hydrant. Looks like I am calling the fire dept on Monday and have a "Come to jesus talk" with them. Hopefully sprinklers will suffice.
Garage is 50 x 70 "L" shaped 2500 square feet.
More bad news today. Water district sasy water main in the street is 6" but only 4" going to the hydrant. That means engineering and digging to replace 4" with 6" to hydrant plus the Hydrant. Looks like I am calling the fire dept on Monday and have a "Come to jesus talk" with them. Hopefully sprinklers will suffice.
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
When the lots do get developed, send a note and be sure to calculate out interest too (using historical interest rates)... In the long run you might have actually made money off of getting that hydrant installed... lol...
That's twice what it should be.
coffeebean
Active member
Zogman,
i'm not sure if lake Elsinore is a city or unincorporated area. i would recommend contacting either city representative or county supervisor.
you just need a way around the prevention bureau. you might consider reading the fire codes or getting an attorney who knows them. might not be worth the price though.
incidentally I'm over in the woodcrest area myself. nice knowing there are others in the area.
dave
i'm not sure if lake Elsinore is a city or unincorporated area. i would recommend contacting either city representative or county supervisor.
you just need a way around the prevention bureau. you might consider reading the fire codes or getting an attorney who knows them. might not be worth the price though.
incidentally I'm over in the woodcrest area myself. nice knowing there are others in the area.
dave
jayz66ragtop
Well-known member
I doubt it, we tried fighting ours too because we were not in the city proper just unincorporated. It's a safety thing with the fire department and a requirement for permit approval. At least it was in our case.