Payne Furnace Problem

[krux]

Hey Guys,

So as of lately I noticed my Payne Furnace will shut down for 1-2 seconds when powering up. As the thermostat sends the signal to the furnace and the inducer motor is running for 20 seconds it will shut down for a brief couple of seconds then fire back up (happens every so often). After this happens the furnace runs perfectly fine.

Could it be a bad thermostat that is fluctuating the temperature causing a brief moment to turn off and back on? Could the circuit board be going bad in the Payne furnace (It's about 8 years old)? This is my house furnace that is having these problems.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[jonjon1]

could be a bad pressure switch, could be the "prover" line going to the switch, could the inducer, could be the igniter, could be a roll out switch, kind of *****, an intermittent problem is hard to diagnose...

You would really need to see the thermostat short cycle to call that what is wrong, its eas enough to change out, I could think of worse places to start..

 

[slice]

I would check ground. Being all circuit board controlled. A ground is super important. Cl an it and try it. If not. Then pressure switch is where to start.

 

[krux]

Thanks guys for the quick response. I also noticed that when it was turned on and ready to turn on the igniter got bright for a brief moment and then cooled off and turned right back on and glowed.

 

[slice]

It's waiting on gas Valve to open. Maybe be bad gas valve. Hear ?? A click when the surface igniter "Lights up" ???

 

[krux]

I hear the click for the gas valve to turn on.

I hate this furnace bad so far I have replaced - Igniter, Inducer Motor, Transformer, Blower Motor, cleaned the flame rod.

Should I take off the pressure switch and gentle pry off the hose to see if anything is clogged in it? It's a 80% Payne.

 

[Showkey]

I would check the easy stuff first...... Rubber lines to the pressure switch........pin holes, splits and cracks.
Does it store any codes when it fails to light.
I had a Bryant with rusty burner Venturi causing a similar intermittent fail to light.

Edit.....Typing the same time as post #6
Dirty rusty burner has more merit after reading post 6...... Mine did not look bad.

Flame rod is usualiy lights and then shuts off. Your issue is fails to light ?

 

[krux]

I would check the easy stuff first...... Rubber lines to the pressure switch........pin holes, splits and cracks.
Does it store any codes when it fails to light.
I had a Bryant with rusty burner Venturi causing a similar intermittent fail to light.

Edit.....Typing the same time as post #6
Dirty rusty burner has more merit after reading post 6...... Mine did not look bad.

Flame rod is usualiy lights and then shuts off. Your issue is fails to light ?

Lines look good but will take off pressure switch tomorrow to make sure line is free.

No codes. It honestly acts like it looses power and it turns back on.

It happens before it lights from what I hear up stairs as it happens at different times. . It happens so quick that I can't get downstairs before it starts back up. It's like no power for a couple seconds and back on.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Do you have access to a multi meter?
Id check to make sure the pressure switch is closing when inducer motor is running,I had 1 a couple of weeks ago where the little ****** on the inducer motor where the hose connected was plugged up with rust.
If you dont find any issues with the inducer/switch Id unhook the leads to the hot surface igniter and see if you get 120v to the igniter,if you can hear the gas valve trying to open you should be getting 120 to the igniter first.
Check the simple things and let us know.
I also had one last week that was driving me nuts with intermittent run/no run,was actually a broken lead going into the inducer motor .
when it first started to run it was fine,after a few seconds it would just stop some times.
Finally turned off the light and saw it arching inside of the motor.

 

[jonjon1]

wow you replaced a lot for 8 year old furnace!!! They are cheap, just replace that thing, lol. $500 furnace would have saved you all them service calls. My guys had one in the beginning of the season, the customer spent $380 keeping the thing running a couple years ago, and we went there first time he tried to run heat this year, blower motor was bad, I told him "Ill give you a refund on all the labor costs from the prior year towards a new unit. it ended up costing him just over $1000 all installed and brand new... I would have charged him $350 to change the blower motor alone.... they are too cheap to play with now, and you can change them yourself in a few hours...

 

[krux]

Do you have access to a multi meter?
Id check to make sure the pressure switch is closing when inducer motor is running,I had 1 a couple of weeks ago where the little ****** on the inducer motor where the hose connected was plugged up with rust.
If you dont find any issues with the inducer/switch Id unhook the leads to the hot surface igniter and see if you get 120v to the igniter,if you can hear the gas valve trying to open you should be getting 120 to the igniter first.
Check the simple things and let us know.
I also had one last week that was driving me nuts with intermittent run/no run,was actually a broken lead going into the inducer motor .
when it first started to run it was fine,after a few seconds it would just stop some times.
Finally turned off the light and saw it arching inside of the motor.

I have only a fluke 88 aka automotive but I'll see if I have another meter around.

Just ohm out the pressure switch? I'll take it off to see how clean it is inside.

I hate how it is so random. At first I was thinking it doesn't have enough power or something but that shouldn't be the case.

 

[slice]

Gas valve clicks. But no gas. Winner right there.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I have only a fluke 88 aka automotive but I'll see if I have another meter around.

Just ohm out the pressure switch? I'll take it off to see how clean it is inside.

I hate how it is so random. At first I was thinking it doesn't have enough power or something but that shouldn't be the case.

Kill power to the furnace 1st,Then pull the hose off of the inducer motor housing.
**** through the hose and listen for the switch to close/click. You can also buzz/ohm the switch with a meter while you do this if you have access to a meter.
The inducer motor on the goodman I worked on with the broken wire inside the inducer motor had me scratching my head also,it would run fine when I was there then theyd call me a couple days later saying it wouldnt start again.
Try jiggling the wires going into the motor while you check them for continuity.

 

[Showkey]

Gas valve clicks. But no gas. Winner right there.

If you do not have a flow/pressure gauge attached to monitor the valve........it would be very cautious condemning the valve.

 

[Brian_WK]

Is this on NG or propane?
Also you can jump your R to W on your furnace board to rule out the Thermostat.

Brian

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Is this on NG or propane?
Also you can jump your R to W on your furnace board to rule out the Thermostat.

Brian

 

[krux]

It's ng.

I took off the pressure switch and the tubing was clean but I blew in it and dust came out of it a little bit. Now it's not doing it since it's rare when it happens. I'll try to get time to ohm it out.

 

[krux]

Update guys:

This furnace is a nightmare in some ways but I am still rolling with it as it's only 7 degrees outside today.

As noted before I was hearing the furnace turning off/starting up. I was lucky that it happened this morning so I could finally hear it. After a couple of attempts turning on this morning I received Code 34 which is ignition start up problem. However after the furnace second attempt the furnace did turn on no problem which eliminates the code so I only have a couple second window. Of course after watching several start up's it never gave me the code again but I did notice one thing.....

A couple of years ago we replaced the ignitor with a universal hot surface for a dryer. The tech told me at the time they are stronger and better than a oem style. 3 years later and I noticed at times the ignitior will slightly/barely glow, turn off and then reglow super bright like it should. Could it be that it can't get hot enough/quick enough so when the gas valve opens it can't get a flame resulting in the system to try it or restart itself? This would be the reason why I hear almost a restart. After the ignitor gets enough power or warm, it wouldn't have a problem the second try around?

 

[Brian_WK]

Im not a huge fan of the universal. I have used them in a pinch to get by but I much prefer the OEM (even though some of them like the bunny ears ones are so easy to break if you look at them wrong). I have had zero issues with the OEM when they are installed correctly and are not cracked. When they get a crack in them they have a hot spot that will glow brighter then then rest of it.

My biggest issue with the universal is that they tend to draw more amps from my experience and some times give issue like you stated. Or worse had one burn up a relay on a board.

Brian

 

[krux]

Wish I could upload the picture but it was the ignitor. The ignitor was slight bent from heat and had dark and white spots. So far new one is doing well

 

[Champ128]

I wish I would have seen this quicker. It was quite common for Payne and Bryant 383KAV and MAV models. The igniter tries to light but small cracks keep it from doing so. It's almost as if thermal expansion helps to close up the cracks. There is a nitride igniter available that is much more reliable and will last longer. Most of the newer furnaces have switched over.