PB Swiss Screwdrivers

[thedrunkfish]

Recently purchased a set of the classic VDE series PB Swiss screwdrivers and i love them.

Use them for industrial work and will never go back to Wiha.

Anyone else running them?

 

[measuredtwice]

Nice! Are the handles santoprene or a hard plastic on the Classic VDE?

I just got the SwissGrip drivers a few days ago and I like them a lot. I was previously using mostly Wiha for full size drivers. I still like the Wiha drivers. The larger handles on the Wiha drivers fit my hand a bit better. But I do love the feel of the santoprene material of the SwissGrip. I also got some of the newer PB Swiss precision drivers with the santoprene handles--love 'em!

 

[thedrunkfish]

They are a santoprene type handle I believe

It took me a while to get used to the smaller handle but I like it, and they seem to hold up better in a dirty environment.

Will try a set of the swissgrip next, in fact, I need a set of standard drivers for my bench.....

 

[measuredtwice]

They are a santoprene type handle I believe

It took me a while to get used to the smaller handle but I like it, and they seem to hold up better in a dirty environment.

Will try a set of the swissgrip next, in fact, I need a set of standard drivers for my bench.....

Thanks for the info!

 

[mr.lemons]

Yes. Use the ESD drivers at work. Also upgraded from Wiha. To be fair Wiha have been very durable, just not quite as good a fit as PB for my work.

 

[rhys99]

PB swiss has been really tempting me, mainly use snap on screwdrivers so it would be interesting to see how they compare

 

[SAA44-40]

I’m a believer. Just ordered some Wiha extra heavy duty. Curious how they compare.

 

[measuredtwice]

Looks like you've got full sets, @SAA44-40 ! Nice!

Here's a side-by-side look at a PB Swiss PH2 and a Wiha Softfinish as well as some others.

Here are a couple of the bit driver. I think the blade on the 100 mm driver might be machined from one piece of metal. In contrast the ones from Wera, Wiha, and Felo have multiple parts.

Here is a PB Swiss precision driver next to some drivers from Wera and Wiha. The handle on the PB Swiss is made of santoprene material and has a nice feel to it.

The PB Swiss and Wera drivers are designed to minimize rolling. The Wiha loves to roll off a surface.

The cap on the PB Swiss rotates smoother than the others. Wera is pretty good --no complaint. Sometimes the caps on the Wiha drivers don't move freely but they usually break in eventually.

The cap on the Wera drivers often have some flash left over from the molding process. That's right where you put your finger so I usually cut away the excess plastic.

The new line of PB Swiss precision drivers have slotted tips that are hollow ground. I wasn't aware of this change and I was surprised when I got it. I might pick up some of the older PB Swiss drivers for comparison. I think the old precision drivers had parallel tips like the full size drivers.

The driver on the left is a FULL SIZE (not precision size) PB Swiss (w/ parallel tip). The rest are precision drivers from PB Swiss (hollow ground), Wera, and Wiha.

I do think that the hollow ground PB Swiss fits better than the flat ground Wera and Wiha. But I'd like to compare the old (parallel tip) and new (hollow ground).

 

[Tallpilot]

I’m a believer. Just ordered some Wiha extra heavy duty. Curious how they compare.

Please let us know. I have Wiha and Snap-on soft Instinct. I have never tried PB Swiss.

 

[Handyandy23]

Anyone know where to buy PB Swiss that will ship to Canada? Was just on Amazon.de and for some reason every PB Swiss product says under shipping in big red lettering "Item does not ship to Canada".

Meanwhile I can get Wiha shipped from Amazon.de. And all are products shipping directly from Amazon. Not sure what the deal is, but I'm guessing it has something to do with COO and trade deals?

 

[measuredtwice]

Anyone know where to buy PB Swiss that will ship to Canada? Was just on Amazon.de and for some reason every PB Swiss product says under shipping in big red lettering "Item does not ship to Canada".

Meanwhile I can get Wiha shipped from Amazon.de. And all are products shipping directly from Amazon. Not sure what the deal is, but I'm guessing it has something to do with COO and trade deals?

Amazon.de won't ship PB Swiss to the US either.

I think both of the US distributors ship to Canada: www.Toollady.com and https://shop.pbtools.us

 

[Davefr]

The cap on the PB Swiss rotates smoother than the others. Wera is pretty good --no complaint. Sometimes the caps on the Wiha drivers don't move freely but they usually break in eventually.

The cap on the Wera drivers often have some flash left over from the molding process. That's right where you put your finger so I usually cut away the excess plastic.

The driver on the left is a FULL SIZE (not precision size) PB Swiss (w/ parallel tip). The rest are precision drivers from PB Swiss (hollow ground), Wera, and Wiha.

I do think that the hollow ground PB Swiss fits better than the flat ground Wera and Wiha. But I'd like to compare the old (parallel tip) and new (hollow ground).

Excellent evaluation and images.

Wera is the only precision screwdriver that gives the user a choice between high speed and high torque depending on the placement of thumb and forefinger. (which is very effective!!)

I also prefer the fatter cap on the Wera.

I'm not sure if there's a benefit to hollow ground on these small screwdrivers. Sometimes I need to fine tune the fit and it's a lot easier to do with tapered tips.

 

[SRSemenza]

I tried the PB Swiss drivers for slotted screws (regular sizes , not precision). Though I like parallel tips I do not like the PB Swiss parallel tips. They are "pre-rounded" , rounded corners and edges. You can see this "rounding / smoothing" in the pic above. I found that compared to others they slip out of the screw slot. I also found that others have a tighter fit.

Wera used to make a parallel tip driver in the same style as the PB Swiss. VSM 345 series. Same type of "stepped" tip as the PB Swiss and with 45 degree corners. But slightly thicker tolerance and hard crisp edges. . Those fit and grip well. They were discontinued some years ago. I have manged to get all but sizes #2 , #3. Still looking for those.

Seth

 

[M6erfan]

I tried the PB Swiss drivers for slotted screws (regular sizes , not precision). Though I like parallel tips I do not like the PB Swiss parallel tips. They are "pre-rounded" , rounded corners and edges. You can see this "rounding / smoothing" in the pic above. I found that compared to others they slip out of the screw slot. I also found that others have a tighter fit.

Wera used to make a parallel tip driver in the same style as the PB Swiss. VSM 345 series. Same type of "stepped" tip as the PB Swiss and with 45 degree corners. But slightly thicker tolerance and hard crisp edges. . Those fit and grip well. They were discontinued some years ago. I have manged to get all but sizes #2 , #3. Still looking for those.

Seth

I've been searching for those Wera drivers too, no luck yet.

I actually like the way PBS relieves their slotted tips.

 

[jimmyin3D]

I love the PB Swiss parallel tips. I’ve yet to encounter a screw that these don’t fit precisely into without any slop. I’m sure the “rounding” smoothness they have is for accessibility into a screw head much like flank drive on wrenches.




Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[JBH]

I actually like the way PBS relieves their slotted tips.

Ditto. I've if anything noticed that they fit more securely than other SL tips from quality makers (Felo, Witte, Wiha, etc.). Furthermore, when they do slip they are less likely to draw blood.

 

[mr.lemons]

Wera is the only precision screwdriver that gives the user a choice between high speed and high torque depending on the placement of thumb and forefinger. (which is very effective!!)

All three look to have a wide part and a thin part to the handles. It's just inverted on Wera. I use all three at work and find I can get much more torque with the softgrip PB. I think Wera handles are a bit Marmite. For me the hard smooth plastic ridge on the Wera precision drivers handles right where you apply the most torque is slippery and fatigues my fingers after prolonged use.

 

[measuredtwice]

Excellent evaluation and images.

Wera is the only precision screwdriver that gives the user a choice between high speed and high torque depending on the placement of thumb and forefinger. (which is very effective!!)

I also prefer the fatter cap on the Wera.

I'm not sure if there's a benefit to hollow ground on these small screwdrivers. Sometimes I need to fine tune the fit and it's a lot easier to do with tapered tips.

Thanks!

I also like the Wera precision screwdriver "power zone" --it's in the perfect spot on the handle.

My Wiha 3.5mm slotted is used regularly for one task and it has deformed the edges on the screws. That got me interested in parallel tip screwdrivers.

Full disclaimer -->I have a bag full of replacement screws that was cheaper than my PB Swiss screwdriver... and I haven't bothered to replace the screws--haha!

I tried the PB Swiss drivers for slotted screws (regular sizes , not precision). Though I like parallel tips I do not like the PB Swiss parallel tips. They are "pre-rounded" , rounded corners and edges. You can see this "rounding / smoothing" in the pic above. I found that compared to others they slip out of the screw slot. I also found that others have a tighter fit.

Wera used to make a parallel tip driver in the same style as the PB Swiss. VSM 345 series. Same type of "stepped" tip as the PB Swiss and with 45 degree corners. But slightly thicker tolerance and hard crisp edges. . Those fit and grip well. They were discontinued some years ago. I have manged to get all but sizes #2 , #3. Still looking for those.

Seth

Wish I had known about it years ago when they were more readily available in the USA. I see Chad's toolbox had them cheap. I can find some in Germany but they won't ship to the USA.

VSM 35601 is the Swiss standard. Witte and Stahlwille also made (make?) screwdrivers to this standard. Presumably you'll find a lot of them in Europe but they don't seem to be commonly available in the USA.

I love the PB Swiss parallel tips. I’ve yet to encounter a screw that these don’t fit precisely into without any slop. I’m sure the “rounding” smoothness they have is for accessibility into a screw head much like flank drive on wrenches.




Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Those are neat drivers. I haven't seen stubby drivers with long blades.

 

[shteii01]

VSM... Gah. Another screwdriver I have to try. My German Amazon basket is filling up.

 

[SRSemenza]

The Wera ................ are even hard to actually find in Germany. I have friend there that managed to get some of them for me. But many of the places that have them listed for sale do not actually have them anymore. I just need size 2 and 3. I have a email out to another seller in another country , crossing my fingers.

I bought my size 7 from Chad's about two years ago. I got it because it was a large screwdriver on clearance in a size I didn't have. When I ordered it I did not really pay attention to the fact that is was a VSM parallel tip. It was the very last one that Chad's had in stock.

Sorry for the OT. I didn't really mean to take the topic away from PB Swiss.


Seth

 

[M6erfan]

Those Witte VSM's look awesome. Are they NLA?

 

[jimmyin3D]

Those are neat drivers. I haven't seen stubby drivers with long blades.

Yeah I used to have the Snap On Stubby Driver with a long blade and loved using it but it’s been a while since someone borrowed it and never returned it. I saw these on amazon Japan and had to get them.

I’ve been using these a lot more since I’m able to hold the stubby part like a ball end. Very comfortable and I seem to get a lot of control with it.

 

[PhysicsDude]

I never noticed the different grind of the PBSwiss drivers. Thanks for posting all the details.

My family is ethnically Swiss, and my initials are PB, so seems like its about time for me to try out some Swiss drivers and compare them to my Felos

 

[Davefr]

The parallel tips assume the slot on the screw is machined correctly for a real close tolerance fit. (which isn't always the case). In most cases there will be some degree of slop.

The tapered tips gives you a better chance of making full (no slop) contact with the slot on the screw. If the tapered tip can engage the entire length of the slot tightly before bottoming out, (as demonstrated by being able to hold the screw), I'd think that's the best fit.

I think that's why gunsmiths have a large variety of hollow ground slotted bits so they can always get a nice tight fit.

With tapered tips, I can always fine tune the grind for the best fitment for a specific screw.

 

[M6erfan]

If the tapered tip can engage the entire length of the slot tightly before bottoming out, (as demonstrated by being able to hold the screw), I'd think that's the best fit.

I'm not disagreeing but I find that to almost never be the case, without, as you said, fine tuning. In my PBS slotted set there are enough sizes to get a tight fit 99% of the time. I have plenty of hollow ground bit sizes in the rare case they're needed.

 

[measuredtwice]

....I might pick up some of the older PB Swiss drivers for comparison. .....But I'd like to compare the old (parallel tip) and new (hollow ground).

I did end up buying an oldie for fun. Also picked up an old PB Swiss slotted bit that was made before they started putting the colorful finish on them.

Old one on the left. New one on the right. Both are 3.5mm

These are the precision drivers. Based on the photos in the catalog, I think the insulated large drivers might also have hollow ground tips like the new precision drivers.

from left to right: new PB Swiss 6.25mm, old PB Swiss 6.25mm (long version), Felo 6.5 (for comparison)

The grind on the Felo is very similar.

 

[bonneyman]

VSM... Gah. Another screwdriver I have to try. My German Amazon basket is filling up.

Shoot, that's what I'm thinking now too!

 

[Superbec]

With tapered tips, I can always fine tune the grind for the best fitment for a specific screw.

fine tuning a screwdriver for one screw? watchmaker ?

the pb's just work.. since I got into PB Sw screwdrivers I barely used my impact screwdrivers

 

[Davefr]

fine tuning a screwdriver for one screw? watchmaker ?

No, I go thru a ton of 0-80 X 1/8" truss head screws used for precision motor rebuilds. For these screws, I want to fine tune the fitment to the point that the screwdriver will hold the screw.

I shortened the shank of the Wera to make it a stubby and then ground a long gradual taper. It fits tight into the screw's slot but doesn't quite bottom out.

The ES121 motion controlled screwdriver (which I absolutely love!!) uses a 4mm hollow ground tip. That one was easy to modify. I only had to touch up the tip to get higher up the taper to make the tip a tad thicker.

All this was for one application specific vs. general purpose.

 

[usdemt]

Are all PB Swiss slotted parallel tip? I could really use a 1/4 slotted for a specific task but cannot tell if they are parallel tip or by the descriptions.

 

[M6erfan]

Are all PB Swiss slotted parallel tip? I could really use a 1/4 slotted for a specific task but cannot tell if they are parallel tip or by the descriptions.

Yes.

 

[usdemt]

Thank you!

 

[measuredtwice]

Old and new PB Swiss bit holders. The old one is a bit rustic compared to the machined socket on the new one.

 

[ive]

I’m dying for some PB Swiss. Unfortunately I live in Canada and the shipping/duty is just killer.

 

[CGarage]

These are my favorites...

 

[Dave455]

Old and new PB Swiss bit holders. The old one is a bit rustic compared to the machined socket on the new one.

Wow, that is an old one!

My oldest 186 is probably 15 - 20 years old and that has the newer style socket!

I have both the classic handle and the Santoprene.

For anything but the cleanest jobs I find the Classic handle is preferable!

 

[measuredtwice]

Wow, that is an old one!

My oldest 186 is probably 15 - 20 years old and that has the newer style socket!

I have both the classic handle and the Santoprene.

For anything but the cleanest jobs I find the Classic handle is preferable!

I was wondering about the age!

 

[OMMP]

Old and new PB Swiss bit holders. The old one is a bit rustic compared to the machined socket on the new one.

Just left flea market. There was this guy that had couple of boxes of VDE PB Swiss screwdrivers. NOS. Yup, older is not better. Worse machined, flashes (other thread had some examples about that for different manufacturer). Took some pics. Gonna try post it later.

 

[measuredtwice]

Just left flea market. There was this guy that had couple of boxes of VDE PB Swiss screwdrivers. NOS. Yup, older is not better. Worse machined, flashes (other thread had some examples about that for different manufacturer). Took some pics. Gonna try post it later.

Your photos aren't showing up.

Anyone have the vintage PB with the wood handles??

 

[measuredtwice]

Here's a brochure showing the manufacturing. I think it's at least 15 years old so there may be some changes today.

I was surprised that they specifically address hydrogen embrittlement from plating. That's something I mentioned in another topic about using acid to clean metal. It's an important issue but it's usually not mentioned in advertising for consumers. The company seems to care a lot about the details.

Edit: The images were resized by the forum software and they are now a bit blurry. You can view the original file at full resolution with this link --> https://static.pbswisstools.com/fileadmin/images/News/Tipps_und_Tricks/04_15_in_24_schritten_en.pdf