PB Swiss Tools Review

[walrus]

I had to make a order to Amazon for a codebook so I sprung for the pick set(2 out of the 4 snap on ones I have are broken) and I also ordered some 1/4 bits, I generally like Snap on bits but we'll see.

 

[Vinko]

I just noticed that the prices have gone up again. That's what I get for all talk and no buy.

 

[Stuey]

The prices did not go up - the 15% off promotion simply ended, and several weeks ago at that. It *might* come around again. BUT you don't want to do as I did - I waited for a promo once, and sure it enough it came back, but what I wanted was sold out and then discontinued.

 

[zuspiel]

I just noticed that the prices have gone up again. That's what I get for all talk and no buy.

Sorry to hear. The prices I put in the post were current when I wrote it. I didn't actually know about the 15% promo... Should have gotten more stuff myself then

 

[pbtoolman]

It's great to see such a great review on our products and so much enthusiasm from new customers! With over 130 years of experience, PB Swiss Tools knows what it takes to create a long lasting, quality tool!

I noticed some of the comments about how long the pick sets have lasted versus other competitors products. One thing that is important to know is that PB Swiss Tools are all made of a special spring steel alloy. Some competitors just take tool steel and slap on a bunch of chrome. PB's special metal is designed to give and bend when used and not just snap off! It is able to deform elastically while still maintaining its hardness and toughness during use. I am working on a video demonstration that shows this and will be more than happy to post up links once it is finished.

If anyone else has any specific questions about the PB Swiss Tools product range, please let me know. I will be more than happy to answer your questions.

Thanks again for the great posts!

 

[posaune]

I'm curious about the SwissGrip (soft) ones myself (I don't have one). However, I think the multicraft handles are really comfy.

I got a SwissGrip Phillips screwdriver set for Christmas (it was on my Amazon wishlist). As soon as I got to open them and use them, I whined until my wife ordered me the slotted set too.

I don't have much to compare them to (my usual screwdrivers are black Craftsman Pro), but the grips imo are pretty good. They aren't "soft" really, but they seem really grippy. I think they'll be relatively easy to clean, but I haven't had the guts to use them on a dirty job yet.

The quality of these is great - better than the Witte I have. I also love the slotted tips. I have no clue why more companies don't make their slotted drivers like this! Both sets came in useful holders too, and they even include mounting screws.

I will certainly be ordering more stuff.

It's great to see such a great review on our products and so much enthusiasm from new customers!

It is great to see another tool company rep on the forum - welcome!

 

[zuspiel]

pbtoolman, welcome to the board!

The tools are good stuff and I'd love to see your video when you get it done.

Does that mean I'll get a discount when I order sets of multicraft slotted and Philips drivers? I plan to in a couple of months...

 

[Bolster]

Welcome pbtoolman. Glad you are here. Waiting for my first PB tool in the mail!

From your post it sounds like ALL your tools are made from this proprietary spring steel, is this correct?

Looking forward to the link ...

 

[zuspiel]

I got a SwissGrip Phillips screwdriver set for Christmas.

They aren't "soft" really, but they seem really grippy.

Have you ever handled one of the Wiha soft finish ones? Is the material similar?

 

[posaune]

Have you ever handled one of the Wiha soft finish ones? Is the material similar?

I haven't.

 

[B.K.M]

I am ordering some classic handle models because I have little boys. My almost-two year old loves screwdrivers. He says, "nuh-nuh-nuh" (which has the correct number of syllables). He recognizes screws, knows they need a screwdriver and he knows the drawer on the toolbox where they are.

I like wood handled screwdrivers. Some of my favorites are by Lie-Nielsen. I looked at wood handles by Wiha, Felo, Witte, and a Japanese make sold by Lee Valley. I look for decent quality chrome-molybdenum-vanadium steel alloy, appropriately hardened and precision ground.

The best defense against cam-out is precise fit which is why I have a certain screwdriver "philosophy". For soft fasteners like brass, rolling a burr on the end of slotted tips can help, but this has to be maintained by the owner. Manufacturers sometimes put grooves on there but they really need a single burr on the end. Diamond dust looks like it would work but it is not repairable.

I read a thread a little while ago about screwdriver philosophy -- whether to buy disposable junk or the high-end stuff since it often seems to get ruined no matter what. My ideal is to have a specific tool for a specific fastener and not just a screwdriver set to cover all the bases. This is why I like the Lie-Nielsen screwdrivers -- they're designed for a single specific fastener. Some other examples would be a Starrett precision screwdriver -- for what else? -- adjusting Starrett tools. For electrical switch and outlet plates, I would use an exact fit Klein slotted tip. For the outlets and switches, a Klein Phillips #2. I would not want to use a Klein to adjust my Starrett tools even if I had one that fit close.

I maintain a couple of on the road vehicles, and I used to maintain race vehicles. I use a specific wrench or driver for each fastener that is part of routine maintenance. I don't just have a 15mm socket and a ratchet handle. I have a purpose-specific oil pan drain plug wrench. I have specific brake caliper bolt wrenches. Now I am perfectly capable of using duct tape and bailing wire, but I find that it is much more pleasurable to work when I have the correct tools, and upon reflection, some of the most frustrating times came about because I used the wrong tool. They don't make oil pan drain plug bolts by precision machining hardened steel. If you keep reaching for that 12 point Chinese socket that's always easy to find, the corners are going to be rounded off sooner than later. Use it on the brake caliper bolt and you'll bust the skin on your knuckle. The same goes for screwdrivers. The wrong tool messes stuff up.

One of the nice things about having tools for a specific purpose is they can be selected to do more than just fit perfectly. In racing, I liked to use a lot of T-handles because they're fast and on motorcycles I had plenty of room to turn them. For many fasteners, a specific torque is required for their installation. Wiha has a lot of preset handles. I would have loved to have a specific preset handle to torque everything I did, but multi-torque tools are often more practical for non-assembly line jobs.

Nevertheless, stuff inevitably comes along that we don't have a specific plan for and we need a general purpose tool. For screwdrivers, I don't like the multi-bit sets because the shafts or bit holders are always fat and my rugrat (the little brother) would eat the bits. Therefore, I'm ordering a set of these PB Swiss screwdrivers. I forsook the wood handled ones with the leather striking caps, the Wiha SoftFinish and the SwissGrips because frankly when you're two years old, those boring handles can't hold a candle to gem-red acetate.

 

[Bolster]

I am ordering some classic handle models ....

Welcome to the forum. You're going to fit in here just fine!!

 

[pbtoolman]

My ideal is to have a specific tool for a specific fastener and not just a screwdriver set to cover all the bases.

Then you will really like the PB Swiss Tools. All of their screwdrivers are designed to fit specific screws. All of this information is outlined in their catalog and on our website. (See signature)

I would have loved to have a specific preset handle to torque everything I did, but multi-torque tools are often more practical for non-assembly line jobs.

We got you covered here to. We are offering the only fully digital adjustable torque wrench screwdriver on the market. (See Torque Tools on our site with the DigiTorque and MultiTorque) Instead of having the preset ones for each torque, you have a set of tools that cover the entire range. All of our tools are designed for low-level torque (less than 16 Nm - 11.8 ft/lbs), but the beauty of it is that we offer these with interchangeable blades. Plus, there are over 40 styles to choose from again with specific sizes to fit specific fasteners.

And, to answer an earlier question, yes, all of PB Swiss Tools are made from the same quality metal. That is something that sets PB apart from other competitors. They don't offer a low-end tool, a mid-level tool, and a professional tool line, they only have one line of tools that are designed for the home DIY enthusiast and the aircraft technician and everyone in between.

I am almost finished with the first video that demonstrates the elasticity and hardness of PB's hex keys. Thanks again for the excellent posts!

 

[Vinko]

Do you have any video about production method or is this proprietary info Where in Switzerland are they made? I like the whimsical coloring of the hex keys.

 

[pbtoolman]

Here is the video that is already up that describes the company, its location, its process, etc. I am still working on putting together the demo videos and should have them done within the next week or so.

Enjoy...

 

[Stuey]

pbtools, On page 10 of the 2008 catalog, it is mentioned that several techniques are used to ensure complete quality control. Is there any chance we can get a glimpse of some of those SEM images? Pretty please? =)

 

[pbtoolman]

Here are the only pictures I have of the SEM from PB.

The first shows the equipment in the lab at the factory in Switzerland:

This second image show a standard PB Swiss Tool tested after fracturing during a Torque Test:

This third image shows a brittle tool tested after fracturing during a Torque Test:

You can see that the structure of the standard PB Swiss Tools gives it the durability and performance needed to get the job done. The standard tool from PB has a Rockwell C of 58-60, meaning its very hard, but it still has great flexibility (thanks to the unique spring steel alloy)!

I will also check with the factory and see if they have any other images that I can post.

 

[Stuey]

Thanks! I saw those images in the catalog, and they really intrigued me. I won't be too upset if the factory doesn't want the images made public.

 

[Vinko]

Next is a set of what they call 'detach wrenches' (Amazon, $18). No clue why you would call that a wrench... Pops off trim clips and other fasteners like a charm, though.

Here, you can also see one of the special PB Swiss features: Each tool has a unique serial number that they can track all the way back to the original batch of steel that entered the factory.

The tips are nice and thin. They fit under almost anything and don't tear up the trim.

I picked these up as I've been wanting some myself and didn't like the S-O model. I hope they work well on a BMW.

In order to get Free shipping via Amazon, I threw in a John Coltrane CD

 

[eschoendorff]

I am ordering some classic handle models because I have little boys. My almost-two year old loves screwdrivers. He says, "nuh-nuh-nuh" (which has the correct number of syllables). He recognizes screws, knows they need a screwdriver and he knows the drawer on the toolbox where they are.

I like wood handled screwdrivers. Some of my favorites are by Lie-Nielsen. I looked at wood handles by Wiha, Felo, Witte, and a Japanese make sold by Lee Valley. I look for decent quality chrome-molybdenum-vanadium steel alloy, appropriately hardened and precision ground.

The best defense against cam-out is precise fit which is why I have a certain screwdriver "philosophy". For soft fasteners like brass, rolling a burr on the end of slotted tips can help, but this has to be maintained by the owner. Manufacturers sometimes put grooves on there but they really need a single burr on the end. Diamond dust looks like it would work but it is not repairable.

I read a thread a little while ago about screwdriver philosophy -- whether to buy disposable junk or the high-end stuff since it often seems to get ruined no matter what. My ideal is to have a specific tool for a specific fastener and not just a screwdriver set to cover all the bases. This is why I like the Lie-Nielsen screwdrivers -- they're designed for a single specific fastener. Some other examples would be a Starrett precision screwdriver -- for what else? -- adjusting Starrett tools. For electrical switch and outlet plates, I would use an exact fit Klein slotted tip. For the outlets and switches, a Klein Phillips #2. I would not want to use a Klein to adjust my Starrett tools even if I had one that fit close.

I maintain a couple of on the road vehicles, and I used to maintain race vehicles. I use a specific wrench or driver for each fastener that is part of routine maintenance. I don't just have a 15mm socket and a ratchet handle. I have a purpose-specific oil pan drain plug wrench. I have specific brake caliper bolt wrenches. Now I am perfectly capable of using duct tape and bailing wire, but I find that it is much more pleasurable to work when I have the correct tools, and upon reflection, some of the most frustrating times came about because I used the wrong tool. They don't make oil pan drain plug bolts by precision machining hardened steel. If you keep reaching for that 12 point Chinese socket that's always easy to find, the corners are going to be rounded off sooner than later. Use it on the brake caliper bolt and you'll bust the skin on your knuckle. The same goes for screwdrivers. The wrong tool messes stuff up.

One of the nice things about having tools for a specific purpose is they can be selected to do more than just fit perfectly. In racing, I liked to use a lot of T-handles because they're fast and on motorcycles I had plenty of room to turn them. For many fasteners, a specific torque is required for their installation. Wiha has a lot of preset handles. I would have loved to have a specific preset handle to torque everything I did, but multi-torque tools are often more practical for non-assembly line jobs.

Nevertheless, stuff inevitably comes along that we don't have a specific plan for and we need a general purpose tool. For screwdrivers, I don't like the multi-bit sets because the shafts or bit holders are always fat and my rugrat (the little brother) would eat the bits. Therefore, I'm ordering a set of these PB Swiss screwdrivers. I forsook the wood handled ones with the leather striking caps, the Wiha SoftFinish and the SwissGrips because frankly when you're two years old, those boring handles can't hold a candle to gem-red acetate.

Damn, you're as nuts as the rest of us. Welcome! I think you'll like it here...

 

[garfunkle24]

The allen keys do look really nice. I'd love to have the set with the Swiss flag on them. However, they only make metric ones and, honestly, I don't use my hex keys enough...

Zuspiel

Do you remember where you saw the Swiss flag set.? I know I've seen them previously, but now I can't seem to find them anywhere. Any Ideas?

Thanks

g24

 

[Diesel-Mech]

Zuspiel

Do you remember where you saw the Swiss flag set.? I know I've seen them previously, but now I can't seem to find them anywhere. Any Ideas?

Thanks

g24

Here you go. http://pbtoolsus.thomasnet.com/view...sary-limited-edition-swiss-hex-set?&forward=1

 

[Stuey]

Zuspiel

Do you remember where you saw the Swiss flag set.? I know I've seen them previously, but now I can't seem to find them anywhere. Any Ideas?

Thanks

g24

Bingo!.

Edit: Darn, I really have to stop loading several threads at once or at least reload them before responding. Oh wells.

 

[pbtoolman]

Not sure if you browsed through our site, but here are some more interesting links about the production of the tools, history of the company, etc.

PB Process: http://www.pbtools.us/process.html

PB History (130+ years): http://www.pbtools.us/history.html

Nanotechnology: http://www.pbtools.us/nanotech.html

Screw Profile Chart: http://www.pbtools.us/screwchart.html

Marks of Quality: http://www.pbtools.us/downloads/marksofquality.pdf

Some Editorial Coverage: http://www.pbtools.us/editorials.html

 

[Stuey]

Not sure if you browsed through our site, but here are some more interesting links about the production of the tools, history of the company, etc.

PB Process: http://www.pbtools.us/process.html

PB History (130+ years): http://www.pbtools.us/history.html

Nanotechnology: http://www.pbtools.us/nanotech.html

Screw Profile Chart: http://www.pbtools.us/screwchart.html

Marks of Quality: http://www.pbtools.us/downloads/marksofquality.pdf

Some Editorial Coverage: http://www.pbtools.us/editorials.html

I've definitely seen those links before, and found them to be very informative. The only thing I didn't like, though, is how "nanotechnology" is throw around in that one link. That's okay, people here already know how nitpicky I can be.

Also, on a random note, is the bit/socket holder featured here available separately?

 

[pbtoolman]

Also, on a random note, is the bit/socket holder featured here available separately?

Yes, you can purchase these seperately, although, they are not a product of PB Swiss Tools. We had some customers who wanted the sockets in a set and PB didn't offer this, so we found a company that offered flexible socket holders. However, they are made in the USA and work perfect for our socket range. We have the 1/4" in red ($2.99) and 3/8" in red and black ($3.39).

 

[pbtoolman]

Hex Key Torque Test Video

I have finished the my first demo video. It is not the greatest, but it gets the point across.

This demonstration is a standard quality control procedure in which a hex key is inserted into a fixture and torqued. Most hex keys would either strip out or break before making the 90+ degree rotation, however, PB hex keys must be able to make it a least 90 degrees without plastic deformation, meaning they have twist back into their original shape.

In this video, they are actually showing how far a hex key can be turned before it slips out of the fixture, over 90 degrees. It doesn't strip or break. Notice the flexibility of the tool thanks to the unique spring steel alloy and precise heat treating. Combine that with the high hardness (58-60 Rockwell C) and you have an incredible tool. To top it all off, these tools are held to tolerances, during manufacturing, less than a human hair. (The highest regularity among tool manufacturers.)

Video:

A possibly high degree of hardness is the prerequisite for a first-class hand tool so that the wear and tear remains low. With over-stressing, the tools may not suddenly and without advanced warning break or even splinter. The durability of the material thus determines and limits the admissible hardness.

If anyone has any questions, post it up. I will be more than happy to answer them for you.

 

[Stuey]

Re: Hex Key Torque Test Video

Video:

That is a really good demonstration! You know, I could definitely see the long part of a hex key undergoing that degree of torsion, but not the short arm! Oh goodness, now I'm going to have to add a PB hex key set to my wishlist. =)

Now I'm interested in seeing what happens when you try to do that with a competitor's tool - maybe I'll sacrifice some Cman hex keys for that purpose.

 

[pbtoolman]

Re: Hex Key Torque Test Video

That is exactly the response I expected... These tools really are something else!

The next video I am working on is doing a similar test on screwdrivers. I putting a standard PB #2 Flat screwdriver, with 4mm dia. blade, into a vise and start flexing it in opposite directions. What is amazing is that the screwdriver always flexes back straight. PB has showed us that you can bend a #4 Flat up to 90 degrees without it fracturing or even showing any wear on the chrome. I should have this video completed and up pretty soon...with many more to come!

 

[64merc]

Re: Hex Key Torque Test Video

That is exactly the response I expected... These tools really are something else!

The next video I am working on is doing a similar test on screwdrivers. I putting a standard PB #2 Flat screwdriver, with 4mm dia. blade, into a vise and start flexing it in opposite directions. What is amazing is that the screwdriver always flexes back straight. PB has showed us that you can bend a #4 Flat up to 90 degrees without it fracturing or even showing any wear on the chrome. I should have this video completed and up pretty soon...with many more to come!

Wow...now this I want to see!!

 

[Stuey]

Re: Hex Key Torque Test Video

That is exactly the response I expected... These tools really are something else!

The next video I am working on is doing a similar test on screwdrivers. I putting a standard PB #2 Flat screwdriver, with 4mm dia. blade, into a vise and start flexing it in opposite directions. What is amazing is that the screwdriver always flexes back straight. PB has showed us that you can bend a #4 Flat up to 90 degrees without it fracturing or even showing any wear on the chrome. I should have this video completed and up pretty soon...with many more to come!

Sounds good! I'll be eager to see that video as well!

I wonder how PB's tool steel compares in flexure tests - I imagine they would perform similarly as impressive.

I really am impressed regarding the complete absence of plastic deformation even under a 90° twist.

On yet another random note, might I suggest that you start a separate thread to which you can post updates? This way, you can edit the 1st post with updates so that they don't get lost in the lengthy discussion that is sure to come. Even if the thread's momentum slows down, you can update the 1st post and then reply to the thread to bring it back to the top of the thread listings. This would definitely attract more attention. Plus, there really should be a distinction between community comments/threads/reviews, and Count-On Tools' provided information and comments.

 

[pbtoolman]

Not the Flexure Test, but here is something similar
and related to the video I posted:

 

[garfunkle24]

Here you go. http://pbtoolsus.thomasnet.com/view...sary-limited-edition-swiss-hex-set?&forward=1

Thanks a lot Diesel-Mech! Now if I could just get you to pay for them too.......

Thanks also to PBtoolman for the great info you've posted. Since joining this board I've heard lots of good things about PB tools and was getting ready to try some for myself.

Your info and enthusiasm for your products has further convinced me.....time to place an order

 

[pbtoolman]

Your info and enthusiasm for your products has further convinced me.....time to place an order

As they say in Switzerland:

PB, a Passion for Better Tools!

 

[Diesel-Mech]

Thanks a lot Diesel-Mech! Now if I could just get you to pay for them too.......

I'm still trying to convince my self that I need a set.

 

[B.K.M]

I received my PB Swiss screwdrivers. I bought two sets to obtain slotted 1,2,3,4, and Phillips 0,1,2,3. Because of set redundancy I actually received two each of the Phillips 1 and 2. I wanted this way so I could give a P2 and a slotted 2 to my son.

I bought the Classic handles, and indeed they are a beautiful gem-red acetate. I'm very pleased with them and note two curiosities besides what's already been written in this thread:

One of the P2's is missing the serial number (doesn't matter to me).

The slotted tips have a unique shape. They are not the taper ground "cabinet" style that is guaranteed to damage screw slots, but they are also not the hollow ground machinst style tips we typically see on insert bits. Instead, they taper (rather than radius) but are then apparently ground parallel for the last mil and a half or so.

 

[zuspiel]

I'm glad you like the drivers.

About the slotted tips: Do they look any different (besides the wear ) than the pic of the old one I posted in this thread?

 

[Vinko]

Got my interior trim hooks. Damn those things are nice. Some of the nicest acetate handles I've seen. Put my proto handles to shame! The finish, the machining, it's just all so damn nice. And for the price too. I've got to practice some restraint, otherwise, I'd go hooks and picks and screwdrivers. If I didn't already have so many allen wrenches, I'd get those too.

 

[walrus]

I bought a set of 4 picks and a nice plastic case with 1/4 flat and Philips bits. Used the picks for the first time yesterday and again today. So far so good. The case of bits is excellent, its made to put on a belt, keeps them all in one place and they seem to be pretty tough.

 

[zuspiel]

I better not wax about those bits again... I'm starting to sound like Merk