Pellet Stove questions

[Baclay9]

To start, I have a 40x40x14 insulated (the white 3" vinyl backed stuff) steel building in central Oklahoma. Two 12' doors and a walk through that face the North and 1 8' door on the South side, all insulated.

I decided on a pellet stove after seeing lots of positive reviews. I ended up with a 50,000 BTU pellet stove. I had it in my head this thing was going to heat the shop up withing an hour or two from 40 deg to 65. I have obviously learned this is not the case.

I have a deisel tube heater that I have been kicking on when I turn the stove on to quickly heat the shop up to 65 deg. Then I cut the tube heater off and let the pellet stove run. Temp will slowly fall back to the 50's over an hour or so.

I noticed a bunch of cold air coming around my 12' doors that face the North so I went ahead and ordered Green Hinges to fix that.

Any other suggestions? Did I just expect too much? I am guessing if I let the heater run 24 hours a day so that the slab and all would warm up the shop would probably be alot easier to heat. I am only out there for a few hours 3-4 days a week though so this isnt really an option.

 

[olllotj]

That's a big shop, prolly just not enough heat distribution, and BTU's

 

[Highbeam]

Your diesel heater is what? 100k btu? It also is 100% efficient since it pukes the exhaust into the room too.

Your pellet stove is probably 50,000 INPUT btu per hour at 80% efficiency is only 40,000 btu per hour. One problem is you probably have no outside air hooked to it so all the air you are pumping out through the exhaust is being replaced by cold air being sucked in past those door seals. This further reduces the net heat added by your stove.

I use a woodstove. It takes a long time to heat up a big shop. Your problem is that you are undergunned. Maybe two or three of those pellet stoves would work as well as that diesel heater.

Right now diesel is cheap. Cheaper than pellets.

 

[Baclay9]

I will hook the outside air up. I never thought of it that way. May not make a huge difference but will take any advantage I can get.

 

[jomobco]

I've got a 40x64x14 with my shop but I've got a Harman P68 with 68k BTU's. It gets comfy within 1/2 hour. I keep the shop no lower than the minimum on the thermostat of the stove (50 ish). I haven't plumbed in outside air but I do have 3 fans on the ceiling.

Edit: I keep it at the minimum 52 but it will climb to 65-70 within the hour if I set the thermostat up and depending upon outside temp. I wasn't clear. I've got insulated 12x12 doors (2) and walls (R19) and ceiling (R30). I just keep the thermostat at the minimum of 50 (ish).

 

[Ironhorse74]

Did you buy a Breckwell Big E?

My opinions on pellet stoves have to do with being in the business for 25 years and hating the damn things.

Brad

 

[machsnell]

I have a harmon p61 and hope to heat my soon to be spray foamed 1600 sf shop. I will have completely sealed all outlets and lights air tight. Only the man door and 3 garage doors will be the weak spots.

I have 3 inch foam under slab and on edges of slab.

I will let you know how it goes but my research says I should be good to go.

I think you 3 inch insulation and ? Lack of insulation under slab are culprits. If you aren't sealed with plastic then air leaks and you lose heat. Also the edges and middle of slab are huge radiators and would constantly provide a way for you to lose your heat.

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[DonPowers]

A couple questions on your doors, are they 12 x 12 and 8 x 8 and are they insulated?

If this is the size and they are not insulated, you are looking at a 8,800 BTU/hr loss with a 25 deg differential, not including losses due to air leaks.

Do you know the R value of the 3" insulation? You can use this equation to calculate your heat loss.

qt = U × A × ΔT

qt = Heat Transfer Due To Transmission, BTU / Hr.
U = Coefficient of Transmission, BTU / ( Hr.• ft2 • °F ) = 1/R
A = Surface Area of Walls, Floor, Ceiling & Doors, ft2
ΔT = Temperature Difference, Inside & Outside Room, °F

 

[finn]

Try adding some ceiling fans, too.

It's probably nice and toasty near the 14' ceiling.

 

[Baclay9]

Doors are all insulated. I got my green hinges installed last night and what a difference. There is no light coming in the doors now. Still need to do something at the top but the sides are good.

It was about 35 deg outside yesterday evening. I got the shop heater to 55 with my deisel heater and then let the pellet stove take over. Got the shop to 58 deg and kept it there from about 4 pm till 10pm when I shut it down..

Ceiling fans would be a good idea. Maybe something I can do next year. I am going to continue to seal up the places I can see light coming through to keep the cold air out. Then plumb the outside air vent to the stove so it isn't sucking the inside air.

It's a cool little stove and I enjoy the fire burning while I am out there. 58 is more than enough heat while doing any kind of work.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Ceiling fans would be a good idea. Maybe something I can do next year. I am going to continue to seal up the places I can see light coming through to keep the cold air out. Then plumb the outside air vent to the stove so it isn't sucking the inside air.

Fans, even a cheap box fan, will help will help a lot, but at 40x40 you are going to need another heat source at the other end !

Sealing up cracks helps a lot. Don't get excited about the outside combustion air. You will never be able to seal it well enough to make much difference.


There are MANY YouTube threads about building a "rocket" stove/heater. Many have been adapted to burn pellets. Check out this guys series on building a rocket heater. I like his design using fire brick on the interior. It should last forever !!

 

[dfiler2]

Doors are all insulated. I got my green hinges installed last night and what a difference. There is no light coming in the doors now. Still need to do something at the top but the sides are good.

I installed a set of these for someone because of low clearance, but one of the advantages to them is they hold the top of the door tight to the frame.

http://supersneaky.com/

 

[lakeroadster]

Have you thought about walling off an area just where you are working or is that not feasible?

 

[csp]

I had the same thought about dividing the space.

That's way too much shop for any 50k BTU heating source.

 

[Milton Shaw]

You probably have plenty of heat, use ceiling fans to get it back down to where you are. I bet there is 40 degrees difference from 14 foot up to 4 foot up with the setup you have now. Heat rises and has to be blown down to where you can feel it. Just a couple of cheep fans will make a big difference in your comfort and cost of heating that second floor when you want the heat for the first floor. (yes I know you don't have a floor between them but the heat doesn't )

 

[Shop Specialties]

I ballpark you BTU needs at about 90,000, so you are definitely on the small side. Ceiling fans would be a big help. It is also easier to maintain temp then to have big swings like 25*. Get the slab heated up then if possible keep the pellet stove on low when you are not out there.

 

[tractordude]

What brand of stove??

I run a harmon pc45 in my 40x50 repair shop with 11 1/2 ft ceilings. Old brick building , and R-49 in the ceiling, R-19 in the walls. one service door, three windows and one 10x12 overhead.

Currently 9F outside and the shop is 70F. If the outside temp is above 32F, it stays off, it will cook you right out.

I would buy a magnetic (wood stove) thermometer to stick on the outside of the stove.
Also, make sure the draft is set correctly, you can tell by the flame. A "lazy" flame needs more air.
your owners manual should tell you were the draft adjustment is, (on a pc 45 there is a small hole on the left of the stove, and adjusts with a small screwdriver)

 

[Baclay9]

I will let the stove get going and take a pic of my flame. I believe my wall and ceiling insulation is R13. I know I could benefit from more but it is what it is.

Stove is a US Stove Company 50,000 btu. I got it on sale from tractor supply. Draft fan is automatic and cycles on and off. I have read you can get into the display and adjust it in some reviews.

After it has been running a while on high it really puts out some heat. I think it is just fighting the cold slab too much.

I have run about 6 bags of Greenway pellets through it. I bought 3 bags of Heat Resource pellets to try this weekend. The Greenways seemed to have a lot more saw dust in the bag and were smaller pieces. Maybe that could make some difference, idk.

 

[Baclay9]

https://vimeo.com/150490954


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[mx500]

Huge difference in pellets too... The brands they sell at loses/home depot, don't put out much heat. I have a harman and it will burn about anything, but i get most heat out of isabella softwood, with pro pellets a close second. Put a meat thermometer near the vent and check the output heat.

 

[tractordude]

Try this
http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/us-pellet-stove-5500-read-this-if-u-have-one.83055/

 

[Baclay9]

Here are some temp measurements I took tonight with my digital thermometer.

Outside temp - 31 deg
Inside away from stove @ 5' from ground - 55 deg
14' high - 61 deg
6" from stove blower- 194 deg
4' from stove blower - 118 deg

 

[bmrtoyo]

Huge difference in pellets too... The brands they sell at loses/home depot, don't put out much heat. I have a harman and it will burn about anything, but i get most heat out of isabella softwood, with pro pellets a close second. Put a meat thermometer near the vent and check the output heat.

thats the total truth there , ive got a whitfield pellet stove ive been running since 98 in the house
{best dang $ 500.00 i ever spent} , she just keeps on ticking ,, but i run lignetics pellets ,more red fir in them and it rocks ,, the garbage white pine cheapo brands **** ,might as well not even fire her up .

 

[tractordude]

I will let the stove get going and take a pic of my flame. I believe my wall and ceiling insulation is R13. I know I could benefit from more but it is what it is.
.

R-13 in the ceiling won't cut it.
http://www.efficientwindows.org/codes2012/Oklahoma2012.pdf

 

[Ironhorse74]

US Stoves bought Breckwell. You have their version of The Big E. Read the manual. Does it still have a time limit on how long you can run it on high? If you want to know why, let me know.

Brad

 

[checkthisout]

Yeah. It's 50,000 input BTU's but half that goes out the exhaust.

Combine that with leaking door seals and if you don't have it rigged up for outside air, it's going to perform the way it's been performing.

Also make sure the stove is clean. If you bought it used, it's needs to be thoroughly cleaned so there is no ash on any surfaces all the way out to the exhaust.

 

[Baclay9]

Stove is new. I vacuum it out before every use. Figure once a season I will give it a deep clean. I only use it for 8-10 hours 2-3 times a week.

I have been through the manual several times and haven't seen any limits stated for how long it can be ran on high.

 

[checkthisout]

Stove is new. I vacuum it out before every use. Figure once a season I will give it a deep clean. I only use it for 8-10 hours 2-3 times a week.

I have been through the manual several times and haven't seen any limits stated for how long it can be ran on high.

You're fine then, it's just undersized for the area you're trying to heat for the given outside temperature.

 

[Baclay9]

US Stoves bought Breckwell. You have their version of The Big E. Read the manual. Does it still have a time limit on how long you can run it on high? If you want to know why, let me know.

Brad

I retread the manual and did find a small paragraph stating "While your stove will operate on its highest setting we do not recommend doing so for over an hour"

What is the reason for this you are alluding to?

 

[checkthisout]

I retread the manual and did find a small paragraph stating "While your stove will operate on its highest setting we do not recommend doing so for over an hour"

What is the reason for this you are alluding to?

It's maxing out the stove, that's all. Akin to running your car at WOT for long periods of time.

It's heating up the stove's guts which is just more taxing on the motors and metal in the unit.

 

[Ironhorse74]

I retread the manual and did find a small paragraph stating "While your stove will operate on its highest setting we do not recommend doing so for over an hour"

What is the reason for this you are alluding to?

We ran that stove in our lab. That stove is so inefficient that after an hour of operation it was over heating the pellet vent.

Brad