Penetrants

[PT Doc]

Was reading online for some home brews for penetrating oil and found some interesting recipes and test results.

Interesting test results with penetrants:

http://www.lepayne.com/wp/?p=137

Another good read: recipe for "Ed's Red": one part lacquer thinner, one part
acetone, one part kerosene and one part ATF.

from this thread:

http://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/looking-for-kroil-recipe-39016-.htm

 

[kiatech]

Re: Pentrants

outlawmws

 

[jrlp]

Re: Pentrants

I use 50/50 acetone atf. I've used countless different types over the years. As a car fab guy, people bring me broken off bolts/studs on a damn-near daily basis. I've had time to try them all.

The acetone/atf can sometimes get stuff pb can't. I like it more since I usually have to weld on it, hit it with penetrant, weld on it again, until I break it free. The acetone bakes off in seconds and the atf is thin and runs/boils off pretty fast. PB, not so much.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

Re: Pentrants

A really smart engineer I work with (rather have his hands dirty) ran tests that I would stack up to any test lab concluded the Acetone/ATF was the best.

I work with a LOT of engineers and this guy is something special. patents, machinist, welder, optical alignment SME, testified under oath about oils and gears etc etc.. He is actually a Principal Engineering Fellow for a major defense contractor. This is not an egg head on youtube..

 

[fflintstone]

Re: Pentrants

I have read that PS fluid are interchangeable in the 50/50 mix.

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Pentrants

outlawmws

Yep, it was me!

I always get an "Oh Wow, "when someone quotes me in an out of the way place!

What is really bad is when I can't remember making the quote, then find it after a search...

(It's happened at work occasionally with a drawing for a part I designed and drew up, and could not remember doing, but it was unmistakably my work....)

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Pentrants

PT Doc, your second link doesn't work?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Re: Pentrants

A really smart engineer I work with (rather have his hands dirty) ran tests that I would stack up to any test lab concluded the Acetone/ATF was the best.

I work with a LOT of engineers and this guy is something special. patents, machinist, welder, optical alignment SME, testified under oath about oils and gears etc etc.. He is actually a Principal Engineering Fellow for a major defense contractor. This is not an egg head on youtube..

Details and results?

 

[yjWrangler]

Re: Pentrants

If I made an ATF and acetone mix what would be good to put it in to spray? Just a regular old squirt bottle?

 

[PT Doc]

Re: Pentrants

PT Doc, your second link doesn't work?

Updated original post and here it is also:

http://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/looking-for-kroil-recipe-39016-.htm

 

[PT Doc]

Re: Pentrants

Outlaw, you were involved in the Machinists Workshop torque testing?

 

[jjjrmx5]

Re: Pentrants

If I made an ATF and acetone mix what would be good to put it in to spray? Just a regular old squirt bottle?

Squirt bottle? Ha.

Hell, even straight bleach diluted with water will take down even industrial squirt bottles in a week. BTDT.

I use the Preval spray system just due to ease of use.

I'd love to see what others use.

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Pentrants

If I made an ATF and acetone mix what would be good to put it in to spray? Just a regular old squirt bottle?

No and No...

The biggest issue with "Ed's Red" is it won't stay mixed. You have to shake it real good before use.

As mentioned it's Acetone! It can dissolve most plastics. Even something as mild as Lighter fluid, (naphtha) took out a lab squeeze bottle I used for it after several years of use...

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Pentrants

Outlaw, you were involved in the Machinists Workshop torque testing?

Nope, but I am (Slowly) playing with different breeds of ATF/PS fluid to see if any mix better. I've also wondered if there is a "catalyst" that would help with the issue. I wish I knew how to find my old physicist friend Herman, that was up on the workings of petrochemicals...

 

[jdsac]

Re: Pentrants

From the RENNLIST forum: posted by dr.Bob

I pretty much mix it on demand, since the acetone flashes off pretty fast and through the smallest openings. Like the spray nozzle of a plastic spray bottle. It also softens most common plastics. So I have a vintage pump oiler in metal, and keep an inch of ATF in the bottom. I add an inch of acetone, and apply to my project as needed. Come back in a week and all the acetone has flashed off what's in the can, leaving just the ATF again. ATF on its own is a pretty handy lubricant, while adding the acetone thins it to let it get into tighter spaces like rusty bolt threads, then evaporates off and lets the ATF do its lubricating thing in places it wouldn't otherwise be able to get in to.

Which ATF? Whichever bottle I have handy. Last time I swapped ATF in the Porsche, I captured some of the used stuff for the pump oiler. It doesn't know new from used.

 

[Danglerb]

Re: Pentrants

I'd like to see Marvel Mystery Oil subbed for ATF, as I understand it MMO isn't far off from ATF, but no idea what it does with acetone. Dr Bob is a smart guy, sounds like a good plan keep the "atf" in the oiler, add acetone when ready to use it.

 

[RKA]

Re: Pentrants

I was going to suggest a sure shot sprayer, but jdsac makes a good point. Unless you're using it daily, his solution is the best.

 

[buco]

Re: Pentrants

Umm, probably gonna get hit for this, what's ATF?

 

[alan camby]

Re: Pentrants

Automatic transmission fluid

 

[jthandyman]

Re: Pentrants

Has anyone used Free All ? This has been the best I have tried so far. Never have tried a ATF Acetone mix yet. Tell me what you think if you have tried Free All.

 

[jthandyman]

Re: Pentrants

Here is a pic.

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Pentrants

Has anyone used Free All ? This has been the best I have tried so far. Never have tried a ATF Acetone mix yet. Tell me what you think if you have tried Free All.

Best compared to what? there are so MANY "penetrants" and garage tricks like using old brake fluid for freeing things up... Waht else ahve you used?

And no, I've never seen it much less tried it.

 

[Outlawmws]

from the Free-all MSDS:

Carbon Dioxide .1-10 %
Petroleum Oil 25-35%
Oleic Acid 1 25-35%
Methy Isobutyl Ketone 25-35%

Basically 1/3 of each with plenty of slop...

 

[buco]

Re: Pentrants

Automatic transmission fluid

Thank you.

 

[blueflame6]

Back in the early 80's I was using Free All, seemed O.K., I used it once on my Savage 311A (shotgun). Well a few months later out in the field hunting I drew a bead on an in flight bird and only a dull click. As it turned out the Free All had dried up and left what looked like a nice amber colored coating (varnishy) it took me days to remove it and free up works of the old double. It certainly was a good preservative barrier, never used it again......