Performance Epoxy -Epoxy coat project!

[Eddieb794]

Well now I am starting to have my doughts about not putting on a clear coat. After reading posts here, most contractors and people always recommend a clear coat over the flakes. Which means another $190. out of my pocket for a clear coat that is uv safe.
Plus I threw away my spiked shoes after my floor was done. Now I have to replace them. This is starting to cost me more than I ever imagined.
Eddie.

 

[TheBanker]

My opinion on settlement. Not that my opinion means anything but I will say anyway what I think would be fair for both sides. The top coat of clear failed. It is sold with, and designed to be used over the base coat. Since the clear is now bonded to the base coat making it unusuable also, both should be replaced by the company. The failure of one results in the failure of both. Any additional work chosen by the installer like flakes would be the responsibility of the installer, along with installation tools and labor. The company only sold product, did not install it.

My question to eddie and gabean is, are they offering to replace both the base and clear product in the same quanity that you purchased? If not, do they have a process for removing the clear, leaving the base intac, and replacing the clear? Is their answer just to cover it with a base?

 

[Eddieb794]

They told me that the clear could not be sanded off with out the possibly of damaging the base and flakes. They offered to replace the base and told me I could get away with the better product with out the clear. Now looking at their web sites the price difference is only $40.00. And now I have to purchase a clear coat.

 

[TheBanker]

I am trying to think outside of the box. Maybe there are other things that you could do so you don't have to redo the whole thing. Can the clear already down be stained somehow? Could a thin colored clear be put over the top? Somehow in a creative way, make it look like it is supposed to be yellow? I don't know, just trying to come up with other solutions.

 

[Eddieb794]

Banker,
A yellow shade of clear won't work for me. It pisses me off already when I see the floor now.
Gabean,
I'm with you on the cost. But at this point with all the work I've done in my garage. I can't leave the floor without fixing it.

 

[gabeancounter]

Agreed. Has to be fixed. Something you will see day after day.

 

[TheBanker]

Maybe i should take vacation, head over to GA and help out Gabean redo his floor then head over to Co and help Eddie redo his.....I feel for you guys. They should provide both base and clear though. They really should.

 

[Ruddy]

Maybe i should take vacation, head over to GA and help out Gabean redo his floor then head over to Co and help Eddie redo his.....I feel for you guys. They should provide both base and clear though. They really should.

Apologies ahead of time for my uncontrollable dry sense of humor.......
Banker, dude, they are trying to get this done in a _timely_ manner!

 

[noslo04]

Hope everything works out. Suggest using a solvent-based urethane clear coat.
High DFT does not make an epoxy clear coat better than other types. The clear coat mainly provides protection against yellowing from UV light and also seals the flakes.

 

[gabeancounter]

Guys, after some time and a few cold ones , I am over it. We headed down stairs this morning and cleaned everything back out. Swept and mopped the floor. Needless to say while moving things, I really did not care if I did damage to the coating.
So I drug my grinder across the floor, just pulled the drill press out, drug the shelving around etc.

I was suprised no damage. Nochips, no scratches that I could see.

No...nobody has called me.

I am thinking a black stripe and solid gray. Will also use a good urethane. Skip the flake so I don't need a high build product.

Banker -come on you got a full week to drive over here.

Ruddy - yep after looking at it for a while I just started laughing. Thinking if I just pee on the other part maybe it would be ok!

 

[TheBanker]

Apologies ahead of time for my uncontrollable dry sense of humor.......
Banker, dude, they are trying to get this done in a _timely_ manner!

 

[gabeancounter]

Well, I have just finished putting down the gray about an hour ago. Been working for 12 hours to get the floor down. Decided to use my 6" sander to sand the floor. Used about 9 pads of 40 grit paper to do the 800 sqft.

Then 5 terry towels with denatued achol to wipe the floor down. Roll of tape to mask off the base boards.

Had to remove the sink and the water filter system.

Here some pics start to finish. I still have to put down the urethane and debating on putting a black stripe in the floor.

 

[Ruddy]

It does look nice and clean all gray like that. You really do deserve a Miller Time!

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Well,

I have been debating whether to go with chips or not but seeing your floor, it will be done in solid white. I really like how it brightens up the room and it should be very easy to find to find something dropped on the floor. Now I just need to figure out what to use for a top coat, polyaspartic or urethane.

Great looking floor by the way. No more " Ol' Yeller"

 

[gabeancounter]

Thanks guys.
Georgia Hybrid,
My understanding is the polyaspartic does not bond that well to epoxy. It will shed off from what I understand. The reason I will be using urethane. One thing on this soild color, it shows everything in the floor. I have a few spots that had either roller fiber or pieces that started to harden. It is for sure brighter than the first floor.

Ruddy,
Your comment about using a hand sander reminded me to try my old bosch. Saved me about 60 bucks. Thanks

 

[TheBanker]

Looks good gabean man. Did you notice the red stripe on the wall peeling?

 

[gabeancounter]

Whatcha talking about banker? I am already a little perionoid. Don't get me going! lol

 

[TheBanker]

just kidding, looks great.

 

[gabeancounter]

Whas up with that avatar? Posting pics of your spare bedroom? Why don't you ship me one of those stacks of green backs?

 

[TheBanker]

Whas up with that avatar? Posting pics of your spare bedroom? Why don't you ship me one of those stacks of green backs?

Thats what my garage looked like before I cleaned it up. Now everything is in the cabinets!

 

[thegarageguy]

My understanding is the polyaspartic does not bond that well to epoxy. It will shed off from what I understand.

That's complete BS

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

That's complete BS

LOL Thanks for being gentle..... Which top coat would be best over an epoxy base? From what I understand a polyaspartic top coat will resist yellowing, most chemicals, tire lift and will tolerate some weld splatter without burning. Does it have a good resistance to scratches? Any other issues or would a polyurethane be better?

Does it a take a pro to install? Not a big deal if that is required as I will be doing everything else myself.

Thanks

 

[thegarageguy]

Which top coat would be best over an epoxy base?

You know, there are many industrial manufacturers with many, many formulas. It's impossible for me to just make a blanket statement and say which one is better over an other. Same goes for polyaspartics, there are so many different types and brands.....

As a contractor I have used many of both polyurethanes and polyaspartics. On our own projects we use what we feel is tried and true. On others, we used what is specified by Architects.

For DIY, go with what the manufacturer recommends. If they do not recommend a urethane, then find another manufacturer. It's like painting a car and not clear coating it. It's super rare we do not go with a urethane. On garages, always. On retail floors, we give an acrylic or epoxy only option but let them know that there is a wax maintenance regimen that needs to be upheld.

On a garage, always polyurethane or polyaspartic, depending on which system was chosen.

FYI, we always have a minimum of 2 man team. Most often it's a 3 to 4 man team.

 

[gabeancounter]

Well, we all have to make decisions based on information we have available. I asked several times this question with little response. It seems to be made top secret.

Orginal chips makes a polyaspartic and a urethane. I was determined to try polyaspartic. One of the lead techs told me that its hard to get a good bond with polyaspartic. I kept on about using the product but he really did not want me to use it.Said it would peel like a layer of skin? I don't know why. So I started looking again at another manufacturer. I found another that had a write up saying the same thing about bond not being as strong. Might be bs. I am not asking you to tell us about every product under the sun. Recommend one that we could have access to and is there some special application? Advantages over urethane ?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

If I am reading between the lines correctly, a polyaspartic should be put down by pros due to a short pot life, will kill you if you sniff it and it turns little old ladies into pillars of salt....

OK, Urethane it is...... I thought from reading some of your posts in the past that you prefered a polyaspartic coating system and was wondering about the advantages it had.

 

[thegarageguy]

The product we use are not DIY. I'm not keeping some secret or anything. Call Duraflex and Dexotex yourself. See if they sell to you. They won't.

Depending on the chemistry and what type of prep on the concrete, yes, some polyaspartics and almost all urethanes would peel off like window tint, on bare concrete that is, not on epoxy, unless its past it's recoat window. Again, always go with the manufacturers recommendations.

You guys are looking for a silver bullet and you wont find one. So far from what I have seen and read on this forum, In my opinion, Wolverine has been pretty successful with DIY products. Haven't seen much complaints or yellowing to speak of like some other guys. I have never used their stuff, so don't hold me to it.

Bottom line, good polyurethane is all you need in a garage floor as a top coat, especially a DIY one.

 

[gabeancounter]

I have already purchased the HPU747 urethane and will be applying it this week. Will not be using any clear epoxy top coat. That stuff has been absolute junk.

Any suggestions on applying urethane top coat? Do you normally thin down at all? 1/4 nap roller? Thanks

 

[Tomwall]

I have been following this post since the begining and I cant believe the mess the performance epoxy got you in. I was going to buy from them, but they wanted a commercial address. I called asking if I could pick it up at the tucking depot. I called them with that question 2 times and 2 times they said they would call me back and 2 times they never called back. I cant do business with people that provide that kind of customer service. Anyway I went with the Norkan/epoxy superstore product and I used the same clear coat that you have. I just put it on today, so I think I can offer some insight from the do it youself perspective. First get a resperator from home depot. The fumes are heavy. With the resperator you wont have a problem. I got the one for paint fumes. Ventelation would also be a good idea. I did not find the pot life to be short. I have a 700 sq ft garage and had 2 1/4 gallons of the clear. I mixed it all at once and kept it in the bucket the whole time I applied it. At first I was afraid I was not going to have enough to do the job, so I put it on kind of thin. After I got across the garage I had at least half left, so I applied it over the first coat as it was still wet. I rolled the garage 2 times using the rest of the clear. It was 70 degrees here today. The clear didnt set up until well after I was finished rolling the floor 2 times. There was plenty of working time. The clear turned out beautiful. It really put a nice shine on the floor. I think that rolling it twice actually was a good thing because this way I was sure not to miss a spot. Judging from your past work that I have seen on your floor you should have no problem with this clear. Dont forget that resperator though !!!!!!!!

 

[Ruddy]

Having been through the process, a long pot life sounds very attractive now!

 

[gabeancounter]

Ruddy,
I agree with you! The EC stuff I put down was much quicker setting up or atleast it seemed. Two things I think that caused me a little issue. First the temp was around 75-80. Back when I put it down the first time the temp was around 60. Next that squeegee that comes with the kit. First time I had a large 18" squeegee which made moving the material much quicker and easier. The squeegee that comes with the kit it around 9".

Tomwall,
Thank you very much for posting up. From my understanding it is best to put that stuff down in thin layers instead of one heavy coat. Sounds like you did it right! Got a couple questions. Which roller did you use? I assume the resperator in the kit is no count? I have the exact same amount as you. Did you mix in a 5 gallon bucket and just use one of the roller screens that hangs inside the bucket? or just the old dip method?

That has always been my experience with EC. Never call you back and don't respond. That was the reason when she told me " I'll ask and call you back in a couple days, but if I don't call you then just call back". Knew right then I was getting the shaft.

So what did you think about the Norkan epoxy??? Can you post some pics? Thanks and welcome aboard.

 

[Tomwall]

I used a 18" 3/8 nap roller and poured the clear coat on the floor in small amounts and then spread it out with the roller. I saw that on a youtube vidio and it worked well. I mixed it in a 5 gallon bucket. The directions said to mix it a low speed as to not allow bubbles. I am not sure what resperator you got with your kit, but if it is just a particle mask it wont do much. You need the one with the two filters on it. When you are wearing it you wont notice any smell from the urathane. I figured for $30 it was woth it. I haven't had a chance to take pictures of the floor yet, but when I do I will post them. I was very impressed with the quality of the Norkan epoxy. I used the Norklad 200 100% solid one, with a clear primer coat, and urathane topcoat.

 

[gabeancounter]

Sounds great. I will pick up a mask. Need one for a couple spray paint projects coming up. The pour roll method sounds pretty easy. I'll give it a shot.

Any issues putting down your floor? Look forward to seeing the floor.

 

[Tomwall]

Here are a few pics of my floor with the Norkan epoxy and clear. Overall the floor went down very well. As with anything that is a first time project I had a few issues. Mostly with the fleck tossing. Most of it went down well as I researched the best way to do it. I was planning on flaking the entire floor after I was finished spreading the epoxy, but when I called the epoxy superstore they suggested doing half of the floor then flaking it and then spread the second half of the epoxy and then flake that to ensure that the epoxy didnt harden up. I did this, but I must have thrown the flakes differently where the first batch ends, because there is a different flake texture in that area. It still looks pretty good, but I know its there. Overall I am very happy with it and when I get my stuff back in there I probably wont notice it much. Its funny because it looks so nice and shinny I hardly even want to walk on it much less drag floor jacks and jackstands on it.

 

[gabeancounter]

Really good job!
It takes a few weeks to really start using the floor again from being nervous about scratching etc. I think having an extra set of hands really helps doing these floors. Flake , mixing etc.

Glad everything turned out so well!

 

[Tomwall]

Yes, an extra set of hands definately is nice. I did it solo. I think that it is important for everyone to understand that eventhough you need to work at a good pace, the epoxy will stay wet for quite a while. Especially if you pour it on the floor as soon as its mixed. I think that if I was confident of this fact while doing the floor it would have helped. I have seen some directions telling you to flake a 10 x 10 section at a time. I believe
this would make it almost impossible to get a good even flake job. I was planing on waiting until this weekend to start moving some things back in. I will keep the car out for maybee an additional week. My tool boxes, brand new 80 gal compressor and some other stuff have been out of the garage for a few weeks already. I have them covered with a tarp and some plastic, but I would like to get them inside soon. How long did you wait to move your stuff in? One of the other things that I learned from this project is that you need alot more muratic acid than you would think to get a good etch on the floor. I used about 5 gallons from the pool supply store. I went over the floor 3 times with a 1 to 1 ratio. I find it hard to believe that the amount of acid supplied in some of these kits is even close to the amount that most people will need.

 

[Ruddy]

"How long did you wait to move your stuff in?"
You probably already moved your stuff in, but I waited 3 days with heaters on as the product sheet that was the time needed for "chemical cure"

 

[gabeancounter]

Yep, I was about to wait cause my stuff was in the other part of the basement. I would say 3-5 days. I am still playing with my floor. Added stripes today. I hope to put the urethane down tomorrow. Then get to use my area instead of fixing product failures. I think the strpies turned out pretty good.

 

[gabeancounter]

Couple more pics

 

[Ruddy]

Hey, Mr. Bean!
That came out nice! i forgot you had your nice new baseboard down too, so that was an extra step of protection you did not have before.

 

[gabeancounter]

Thanks Ruddy. Yep. Gotta get all the tape up tomorrow as well. Lots of extra steps moving everything out etc. I am really sick of messing with it, but it is almost done!