Performer or Journeyman Welding Torch?

[SpiderDave]

I was going to put this thread in the tool section. But it made more since to me to try in fabrication since I didn't see anything on torches there in tools. And if you're fabricating, it'd be a chance you have one and would know.

I'm trying to purchase an Oxy/Acet kit. I'm down to Victor Med Duty Performer 100fc handle or the Heavy Duty Journeyman 315fc handle (540/510). I work with steel mostly. Main uses will be heat, bend and cutting. Typically cutting patterns from 10ga - 1/4" with an occasional cut off of 1" to an occasional 3". I'd like to have it for brazing/welding later also. I do have a small plasma cutter, but I would still like to have a torch available for cutting out..

I was told the Journeyman will do anything the Performer will, you just put in a smaller tip. Other than it being slightly larger and more flow capable etc, does that sound right? Will the Journeyman get a cleaner cut on 1/4" or 3/8" steel than the Performer or just be faster? Or is that not really an issue until you get up to thicker material?

Seems the 100fc is a versatile. But I think for heating and bending, the Journeyman's the better choice and better quality tool? I don't want to over think it but don't care to end up with too much, or too little either. I'd just like to feel good about my choice and not guess. Can anyone enlighten me or share their experiences with either or both torches? Maybe a comparison? Advantages & Disadvantages? I have both large and mid sized tank sets of O/A, so that doesn't effect the choice. Thanks and Happy New Year, soon!

 

[sberry]

The performer is the one for you. WAY cheaper, slightly smaller. A couple buds got them 35 year s ago, still work. I just scored the hanle head of one at a sale.
Even though I use the larger ones,, I am in the biz, but if I was buying today that would be it.

 

[dr_clyde]

I started with a med. duty Smith torch. It works fine, does everything a home shop would want and more.

I then came into possession of a used Heavy Duty Smith torch. HOLY **** is that a better torch. The bigger tip size capacity is really nice. I kid you not, it is at least twice the torch the medium duty one was.

Long story short, I have never regretted getting the bigger model. I haven't used the smaller torch again since.

I would get the journeyman, especially if only even occasionally you are cutting 1" and 3" plates. That bigger handle and tip capacity will speed things up considerably. While the smaller torch is technically capable, it works so much better on a bigger handle for the thicker stuff.

 

[56Safari]

I have the journeyman 315 and have zero complaints, it is my first torch though and I’ve never used any other torch. I asked for an OA setup from my girlfriend 2 years ago and she went all out because we have a friend who works at the LWS and he gave her free tanks... I haven’t cut anything super thick yet, just some 3/16 small flat bar mainly... I have a plasma cutter now, so I use it for cutting most of the time.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[joe49]

One vote for Victor 315 journeyman.

Clean cuts are about correct pressures, tip size and cleanliness, cut travel speed, and your skill.

 

[SpiderDave]

Thanks everybodythis is really helping me out a lot. Looking like Journeyman's takin the lead so far. I suspected the pressure would give a cleaner cut edge, just wasn't sure. Kinda thinkin too that if the torch was able to keep moving along faster, there would be less heat wicking in too? So cutting the thin stuff with smaller tips will be fine too then? I can easily get used to a bigger handle if thats all I need. I read today they're pretty close to same size, except the Journeyman's just a little fatter? I've had a serious need for a torch. So this has been a long time coming. I'm feeling better about this decision. But still takin votes if able? Thanks everybody!!!

 

[WittHay]

I find the smaller Victor handles are nice with acetylene for cutting out bearings in confined spaces or heating up nuts in crowded areas. One of the guys was good at brazing and he always grabbed the smaller torch

Myself I like the larger torch. Most of the cutting and heating is out in the open and its just faster. Ours is set up on propane and we have a adapter to use a Harris rosebud on the Victor cutting attachment. Works really well for heating and bending thicker metal

 

[sberry]

The cut quality is the same. Yes the journeyman is a bigger heavier torch but it doesnt make much difference in end result to this class of user. The perspective often gets skewed here. A guy starts as a pipeliner and thinks every one interested in some yard art and hobby welding should get engine drive or Dialarc so he can burn 5/32 lo hy a box at a time when he is really a candidate for a 210 wire feed.
Most hobby maintenance/auto types prefer the smaller stuff, way easier to get in for heating on cars, everything about it cheaper and have actually had the girlfriend/wife ask this and never had one come back and regret not getting heavy industrial torch.
The Ranger class has been made a long time.
The limiting factor is the bottle size, 140 cf aceyt wont even run a large rosebud well. 80 wont even heat well with a large cutting tip.
If this was setting up a professional welding shop working on heavy excavating equipment then the advice would be different.
What bottles so you have? A torch can be a precision instrument. A lot of regular users never really do learn well. Some do well despite that.
I carry 2 sets of bottles to be able to run big tips. Sometimes simply run 2 ror hes in shop but to sell the truth its pretty rare anymore. Last large heat was on a bulldozer track pin and used a common cut tip. I would just as soon use a cutting handle/head for fab work or lp tip but keep combination on in shop for use with brazing tips.
The OP is a poster case for why they make the smaller set.

 

[SpiderDave]

What bottles so you have? A torch can be a precision instrument. A lot of regular users never really do learn well. Some do well despite that.
I carry 2 sets of bottles to be able to run big tips. Sometimes simply run 2 ror hes in shop but to sell the truth its pretty rare anymore.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank You sberry, excellent read there. Great pics and those are some beautiful cuts!!! So, I have two sets of tanks. The smaller (backup) set is 150cf Oxy & 70cf Acet. The larger (main use) set is 300 Oxy & 250 Acet. All with same valve thread sizes etc. (510/540?)

Despite the very real financial strain, I've been considering having 2 sets actually. So thanks, it made me feel less extreme when you brought that up. Ha! (One on each set of tanks.) But I wasn't sure that was a good idea or over kill? I do like the idea of getting to know them both and learning what's best application and the added experience, if able. If I bought the Journeyman kit, I did find a Performer Outfit for cheap that I could get a great deal on with it. Not a lot more than what it would cost me to replace a reg if it went bad. And it also comes with the same regs as the Journeyman, so they'd be interchangeable in a pinch. I do prefer to have backup tools when they're vital to the majority of shop jobs. IME, setbacks can cost more than being prepared - just depends. I am out of my element when it comes to oxy/acet. I may be over thinking that just to have both and be done with it. I do think this'll be an extremely valuable tool to the shop, and a long time coming & waiting. So maybe I'll make a good decision in the end?

As for the rosebud, I've been considering - after everything I've exhaustively researched over the last 4 months - having that be a propane dedicated handle with a rosebud. The idea of having yet another tool taking up valuable space, doesn't thrill me. But it may still be a good option and worth it? I've found so many variables running a rosebud that makes propane cheaper, more appealing and safer for a guy like me who lacks any previous experience with O/A set ups. I see good sized used propane tanks around all the time at decent prices. This way I wouldn't have to deal with the 1/7, 1/10 and now I'm finding out,... the 1/15 rule issues with a rosebud. I do have a HF Torch with a rosebud, thought I could use that for now and see how I like it? Even though that lil' torch leaves a bit to be desired, it does work. For rosebud heat and such, seems like that would save money and time in the end - once I got everything set up properly. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Lwel9226]

I have both and they both work very well.... they both will cut or braze anything I do at home... The thickest I have cut at home is probably 1 in....
The small size of the Performer is very handy for working in tight spots....
I currently have the large set on my cylinders because the last time I used it I needed the Large rosebud....
Before I retired we used the Journeyman only, but that was for much heavier work....

LynnW

 

[BD1]

Smith are still made in the USA . They do have a LIFETIME guarantee model too. Both are great and used in the pipefitting industry. Victor does have shorter length rosebuds then the Smith. Review all options and what set provides more of what you need. Tips are not cheap.

 

[trackwelder]

I prefer the heavy duty torch handles myself. Victor is good stuff but I like smith better. I would suggest going to a welding supply store and see if you can get your hands on a few torches. At my shop I like the versatility of a two piece torch. On the job doing heavy burning I prefer a one piece torch with a 70 degree head.

 

[sberry]

I have a Smiths Journeyman also, don't quite care for it as much but its just a personal thing. Before plasma I had a set of bottles on the wall, a 100#LP and 100 ft hose on aceyt and LP which I used for most cutting. You have big bottles they will run big tips, all depends on the nature of the work. If you are in the excavating or fab biz then the big stuff makes sense but,,, since you can get a set cheap start with that and look for deals on the rest of it.
I am not really super fussy as long as it works, grew up on a Purox/Lindee which worked well but switched over to Victor simply because it was used in the trades I was in.
The Performer used to be called Ranger, it has been made a long time, I have used it a fair amount as a Bud had one. Then they called it a Super Range set. I understand the Trackwelder on the preference at work for larger tools, likely quite constant heating and large cutting. When I was or do that type of thing I felt the same, when I do general/maintenance or what would be hobby level work doesn't make so much difference.
Start with a set that works, go from there. Nothing says you cant improve or gather more if needed. The reason I pick on some of these threads is that I been there and done that. I traded an old car engine for my Journeyman set back in the day. But,,, I have had this self debate,,, should I get the best etc, there are a few places it does pay, when horsepower is a factor, etc but I also spent and wasted a lot parking a lot of money where adequate would have been just fine.

 

[sberry]

The one place buying up that has really paid was pressure washer. Even welders, the small feeders I bought I wanted anyway, I bought bigger when I needed it. The first one I bought the best engine drive where I should have got a small one which I used 10X the big one which never really did pay as plans changed. So many cheaper tools today have got so much better its often well worth the risk to try something out first,,, not much lost to upgrades IF they are needed. It was a different shopping experience 30 or 40 years ago, so many different choices today.

 

[royce]

Something that has not been mentioned is the weight and length of the bigger set, when it comes to cutting.
The heavier torch will take more of the "shake" out of the cut.
The longer torch will allow longer cuts before needing to reset elbow and hand rests, thus reducing starts and stops.
If the OP wants to make the best cuts he can, he will be better served with the bigger set.
The only time I ever hook up a smaller set is when I have a lot of small, thin, precise gas welding or brazing that needs done.

Here is a pic of a fun exercise in hand flame cutting, that I would not consider doing with a smaller torch

Royce

 

[sberry]

I will agree about some of the benefits of bigger to a fussy highly trained professional. Even a lot of pros have learned hand to mouth. I had a couple instructor types that really really knew. Had it in apprenticeship classes and use on most days for 15 years after. With a clean tip can cut a 3/4 and sometimes less bolt thread off and screw a nut back on.
But it's a little like welding, I struggle with really fine work today as the plasma has overtaken the majority of fab duties. And most of our work is not super fussy, all general type stuff. Mostly small 1 off cuts where a guy doesnt get constant practice. It doesn't mean it's not good just not real fine. It's acceptably professional and looks great to customers just not machine quality that some of the best operators can nearly match.
Hatchet cuts. Can save a lot of grind time.

 

[royce]

I am not a fussy highly trained professional, just a experienced tradesman.
The benefit is not limited to fussy highly trained professionals, it is there for all.

Royce

 

[sberry]

Yes, I understand, the more a guy knew the more difference he might realize. As I mention, I know the difference but it doesn't mean a whole lot to me personally if I got a clean couple tips, a number 2 for general and maybe 0 or 00 for light sheet if it matters a lot.
It was more a deal in the past before the plaz. I stil use torch for what field I do.
I have an 80 oxy bottle and 20# l.p. I carried in my pickup but really carried it as a security blanked, used it a couple times in the last few years as it has been replaced a lot by battery tools for quick work, sawzall and cordless grinder.

 

[royce]

For the benefit of the OP and others that don't know, a number 2 tip is not a general purpose tip.
It is a tip designed to cut 1" plate and will give less than good results and waste a lot gas when used on thinner materials.

A number O or OO tip are not a light sheet tips.
A number O is designed to cut 1/2" plate and a number OO is designed to cut 1/4" plate.
A OOO tip is designed to cut light sheets.

It should be stressed that to make decent cuts, proper tip size, gas pressures and travel speeds must be followed.

Victor has the data sheet and it will really help somebody that is just getting started or having problems.

Royce

 

[SpiderDave]

Thanks guys! I'm taking all this in, I'm a sponge so I promise non of its going to waste. I really appreciate it. I just tried to post my reply and when I had to log in again, as it bumps me off for sitting idle typing. I lost my reply and questions. I have to go but will get back to you, Just out of time now. But wanted to say thanks! A lot of really valid things to consider here. To be continued............

 

[SpiderDave]

Thanks royce, where would you suggest buying tips? LWS or internet? I'm having a hard time understanding their numbers. They differ from how victor represents them in their charts. What would be considered a decent price for a tip on average?

 

[royce]

Dave,
I would check prices in both places but I have always bought from the welding supply, just make sure they are genuine Victor.
I have not had good luck with the generic ones.
A #2 tip is numbered like this: 2-1-101
A #OO tip is numbered like this: OO-1-101
It is the first number in the sequence that designates the size
I don't know current prices.

Royce

 

[Lwel9226]

For the benefit of the OP and others that don't know, a number 2 tip is not a general purpose tip.
It is a tip designed to cut 1" plate and will give less than good results and waste a lot gas when used on thinner materials.

A number O or OO tip are not a light sheet tips.
A number O is designed to cut 1/2" plate and a number OO is designed to cut 1/4" plate.
A OOO tip is designed to cut light sheets.

It should be stressed that to make decent cuts, proper tip size, gas pressures and travel speeds must be followed.

Victor has the data sheet and it will really help somebody that is just getting started or having problems.

Royce

What Royce says is absolutely true, plus you also need to keep properly cleaned tips....
Working in construction 90% of all the cutting I did was with a #0 or 00 tips....

Tip size numbers are the same for Journeyman or Performer...

LynnW

 

[royce]

Amen Lwel,
A clean tip is imperative.
I might add, take care not to bang the the business end of the tip up and be gentle when cleaning, as not to wallow out the oxy hole prematurely.


Royce

 

[royce]

Dave, I don't know what chart you are referencing but this one should get you there.
Disregard the preheat oxy column, it is for a 3 hose rig.

If you need any help with getting a torch set to cut it's best, say the word and we can walk through what works for me.

Royce

 

[sberry]

We probably do use larger tips than needed. Because of plasma the torch use is greatly reduced. A bigger tip heats faster and its been several years since i even change one. I dont think i even have smaller than 00. I rarely use a rosebud. Its all good, just dont use it.
I heat a bulldozer track pin the other day then blow off some 1/2 its and 3/4 in the same move.

 

[speed bump]

The Journeyman torch used to come with 2 stage regulators which was why I would have bought one if I needed a new torch set. Now I would have to go to the LWS and handle one to see if there is that much of a difference. You can always buy the cheaper torch and find a used Journeyman torch later, I see them regularly with a cutting head for $50 or less at pawn shops.

Like was said before, you will get much better results with a 00 or 000 cutting tip in thin materials. Personally I only use a #2 cutting tip for heating or cutting up scrap.

 

[BukitCase]

" it bumps me off for sitting idle typing. I lost my reply and questions"

Dave, BTDT - when you first log on, ALWAYS check the "remember me" box, I promise it'll lower your frustrations... Steve

 

[sberry]

I bet a set of journeyman with 2 stage regs is a bit pricey anymore not that they were ever cheap. I have a set and a couple sets of singles, 1 needs repair and I shelved it, forgot about the thing and need to order a part for it. It happened to break a little seal, I was standing next to it when it headed north and caught it. I had scored another set at a sale recently, the acety took a dump but the oxy hung in there. I think they were Sears something, not sure and I toss it after stripping fittings and gauges. I got enough good ones not fixxing ****.
I do have a 100 handle and head, it all works, just don't use it as i already have settups.

 

[sberry]

None of this do we use as in the distant past. A set of bottles last a long time. Plasma has displaced it for most fab work. I use a torch on automotive type things as much as anything these days.

 

[sberry]

I have a small band saw, I don't use it much, just dont, no big reason why, probably habit. I have 2 28v sawzall which I am so proficient that i tend to grab. My first choice is an abrasive chop saw, all this used to be done torch. If I was in an all new fab shop would have cold friction but for maintenance type work with a little fab I like abrasive and it can do a lot, especially cutting junk. I don't miter with it, if I do I square cut and nip with plasma. The exhaust cut on visa and sawzall , it rolled apart but is good by eye, I can do it fast before I get it clamped up other methods.

 

[sberry]

I have a grate on the end of the bench with a catch can. This I use a lot.

 

[Whiskeymike]

Any reason a Medalist shouldn’t be considered compared to the performer?

 

[joe49]

Never saw a Journeyman set with 2 stage regulators. What part # was that?

 

[speed bump]

Never saw a Journeyman set with 2 stage regulators. What part # was that?

I really couldn't tell you, I just remember that was the reason I wanted a journeyman set. That could also be me misremembering something my dad told me. He has a set that was a journeyman torch with 450 regs and he said that was the mid range set in 1983. The oldest reference material I have is from the early 90s and it has the same Journeyman set as is sold now.

 

[sberry]

I believe you are correct with 450 as a model and the singles might be 415 and there was a letter, D as i recall.
When the torch was a standard and fibers was an art the 2 stage reg has its place.
Today would use anything that worked especially with suffecient bottles. So much less weld and braze, havnt torch welded steel but about twice in the last 30yrs.
I still get an anxiety attack if I get too far from a torch but the demands are rather crude.

 

[sberry]

A torch is a survival tool. Should be on fire dept rescue truck. While some guys got it all on my service stuck it's torch and stick welder.

 

[sberry]

A guy has to grind rust but a big use for torch is burning paint and once in a while oil. Another is 2 layer cutting control and burning nuts off in a non gouge manner. It's well worth some investment in skill, fab work is so much more effecient and well finished by someone can do it well. It stands way out. It's just obvious as daylight when someone used a torch before. I had a kid work for me all while since teenager. We were highly torch dependent. He learn to cut well. When he was of age he got a job with an excavating company.
1st day,, gets sent the shop where the guys pretty much look like some monkeys tryin to fuk a football.
They were having problems and Simone said, if you can do it better go ahead. He clean a dirty tip, the angle he cuts hits the floor and before it does 1 of them is in the office and says,,, you got to see this.

 

[sberry]

I can go a long time on a tip. In some cases years. I put one in for scrap a while back, cleaned it, thought it was me till I changed it. You can sometimes feel it with cleaners, the lance hole I was just rough and it just wasnt going to work. I finally toss it in the scrap.

 

[joe49]

450 series are single stage.