Perma-Column vs Green Post

[723Monolythic]

I am getting ready to contract a pole barn garage, and have the choice of using either Perma-Columns, or a "Green Post". I have never heard of a Green Post before, but the idea seems sound. They can be found here: www.planetsaverind.com

The idea is a regular treated, laminate post, coated with Bitumen and then wrapped in plastic.

Any thoughts or experience with the Green Post? The option for Perma-Columns is going to cost me several thousand more over the Green Post, Hence the question.

Thank you.

 

[Franz1.0©]

That Green thing is just fancy talk for fence post dipped in hot tar.
Bitumen is a 9 dollar word for coal tar.

I find lately about the only green thing worth trusting is a government Dollar.

 

[lakeroadster]

OP... where are you located? Arid climate.. or humid wet climate?

 

[matt_i]

What's the cost-increase for a green post? One disadvantage is the entire set of posts of whatever dimension and length you need have to be shipped to the jobsite.

Obviously the permacolumn must do the same but it looks a lot closer to a semi-standard 48" square pallet load that would go on any LTL dry-van freight line than a set of ~18 foot treated wood posts.

 

[tjdux]

Those permacolumn look pretty solid. The greenposts look like a sound concept but could still rot over time. I guess same could be said for water getting into those concrete posts and cracking them with freeze cycles.

Ive neverbhad much great luck with wood in the ground and tar coated plastic wrapped wood will certainnly outlast even treated lumber if the wrap tears during install then you just paid big bucks for a regular post.

Concrete, especally if you water proof it seems the way to go.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[723Monolythic]

OP... where are you located? Arid climate.. or humid wet climate?

Central Virginia. Gets Dry in the winter, and hot and humid in the summer.

 

[723Monolythic]

What's the cost-increase for a green post? One disadvantage is the entire set of posts of whatever dimension and length you need have to be shipped to the jobsite.

Cost is about $4000 more to use Perma-Columns. The Green Posts are what the contractor normally uses. I was requesting the Perma-Columns.

 

[red61cj5]

the perma columns offer peace of mind. I used them, and I never look at them without being glad I did. theres a lot to be said for never having to worry about what it looks like below grade. The green posts might take 100 years to decay, or whatever, the perma columns will never decay. ever. 4000 dollars is about 35 posts, that's a big building, probably less than 5% of your total build cost. Do you really want to skimp on the hardest part of the building to fix ?or replace

 

[GMCGarage]

I am getting ready to contract a pole barn garage, and have the choice of using either Perma-Columns, or a "Green Post". I have never heard of a Green Post before, but the idea seems sound. They can be found here: www.planetsaverind.com

The idea is a regular treated, laminate post, coated with Bitumen and then wrapped in plastic.

Any thoughts or experience with the Green Post? The option for Perma-Columns is going to cost me several thousand more over the Green Post, Hence the question.

Thank you.

Can you buy a 55 gallon drum and just 'Plasti-dip" the ends?

 

[723Monolythic]

the perma columns offer peace of mind. I used them, and I never look at them without being glad I did. theres a lot to be said for never having to worry about what it looks like below grade. The green posts might take 100 years to decay, or whatever, the perma columns will never decay. ever. 4000 dollars is about 35 posts, that's a big building, probably less than 5% of your total build cost. Do you really want to skimp on the hardest part of the building to fix ?or replace

This is what I have been thinking, and why I asked the contractor for a quote on the Perma-Columns to begin with. This is the direction I will go. Thanks to everyone.

 

[classic boost]

what about those plastic post protectors?
something like this: http://www.postprotector.com/

 

[lakeroadster]

The green post seems problematic to me. If the plastic wrap gets a through wall defect it will hold water. That's worse than not having anything.

Perma-columns can also be problematic, the concrete can crack, allowing water to get into the re-bar, and then rust will degrade the column.

For the bean counter types it all comes down to what's your return on investment? Unless you plan on living at this residence longer than 60 years, using standard CCA treated lumber makes the most sense.

Your average consumer could care less about what poles are used on a barn.

Long-Term Durability of Pressure-TreatedWood

As a whole, the post and lumber specimen exposure data indicate that for general-use ground contact retentions, the expected durability of wood treated with pentachlorophenol, ACZA, or CCA will be 60 years or more.

Have you looked at a conventional stick built constructed building? At some point this additional cost will offset the price advantage of a pole construction.

Another option is bolting the columns to the foundation. This is a hybrid approach, think stick built foundation, but pole building above ground.

 

[cj7jeep81]

Just keep in mind that CCA treated lumber is not available in the US anymore, and I'm not sure if the ACQ stuff available now will hold up as long.

The green post seems problematic to me. If the plastic wrap gets a through wall defect it will hold water. That's worse than not having anything.

Have you looked at a conventional stick built constructed building? At some point this additional cost will offset the price advantage of a pole construction.

For the bean counter types it all comes down to what's your return on investment? Unless you plan on living at this residence longer than 60 years, using standard CCA treated lumber makes the most sense.

Your average consumer could care less about what poles are used on a barn.

Long-Term Durability of Pressure-TreatedWood

As a whole, the post and lumber specimen exposure data indicate that for general-use ground contact retentions, the expected durability of wood treated with pentachlorophenol, ACZA, or CCA will be 60 years or more.

 

[coljar]

My 30 x 40 pole building has perma columns and the price was a little more, but not enough to not go first class. The contractor drilled a 24"dia. hole 4ft. deep with a 16" thick footer. Set the column and then pour concrete around it to within 6" of the surface. Well worth it to me.

 

[63spyder]

Around here it's all pressure treated posts in the ground , no plastic ,no tar. I've yet to see one with rotted posts. In fact there is a lot of debate about concrete or just gravel around the post in the hole. People are worried that the concrete will cause the end of the post to stay wet.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Some locations require no wood below ground level. Period.

 

[readhead]

63spyder, how would you know if they were rotted? Do you bring a shovel?

 

[lakeroadster]

Just keep in mind that CCA treated lumber is not available in the US anymore, and I'm not sure if the ACQ stuff available now will hold up as long.

Sure it is.. you just have to look a little harder. Allweather Wood ---- Where To Buy

CCA Treated Wood is treated at our Coos Bay, Oregon, Loveland, Colorado, and Washougal, Washington manufacturing plants. Wood species treated include Hemlock fir, Lodgepole Pine, and Ponderosa Pine. CCA stands for Chromated copper arsenate. CCA is a chemical wood preservative containing chromium, copper, and arsenic. CCA is used in pressure treated wood to protect it

 

[cj7jeep81]

Sure it is.. you just have to look a little harder. Allweather Wood ---- Where To Buy

CCA Treated Wood is treated at our Coos Bay, Oregon, Loveland, Colorado, and Washougal, Washington manufacturing plants. Wood species treated include Hemlock fir, Lodgepole Pine, and Ponderosa Pine. CCA stands for Chromated copper arsenate. CCA is a chemical wood preservative containing chromium, copper, and arsenic. CCA is used in pressure treated wood to protect it

I stand corrected, well sit corrected Ok, so CCA is still available, but not as easy to find as it used to be.

 

[lakeroadster]

Trust... But Verify!

Also.. the amount of CCA is critical, and is based on the application of use.

I actually sent samples of the posts on my barn to SPIB (Southern Pine Inspection Bureau,
Pensacola, FL), and for $50 they verified the CCA level, which ended up being 0.781.

Trust... But Verify.

 

[Niteman9]

So what is the cost premium for the Green Post over a standard Pressure Treated post? I am installing a fence so they would be 4X4 posts. I can't find a cost for the Green Posts anywhere online.

 

[jives]

Use greenheart timbers, e.g.,

http://ironwoods.com/products/our-species/greenheart/

 

[63spyder]

Out here in the country ,l work around and in them all the time. It's just the way they build pole barns here. Have yet to see a rotted post. I'm sure their must be one or two around. But I haven't seen one yet. The post are supposed to be good for 40 year ground contact.

 

[rburke65]

I sort of like the sono tubes full of concrete, plus the 4x or 6x brackets. Then add your posts into th3 brackets

 

[HoosierMark]

Classic boost. My builder used the plastic post protectors 5 years ago. I watched and he made sure there were no penetrations in them below grade. I think as long as the building does not shift, and the tops are protected from any water entering them I will be good. Ask me in another 20 years and I will tell you if they really worked. Nobody mentions the added labor of either the perma columns or the plastic sleeves. Both take extra with the perma columns taking even more. Plus, there is the issue of nailing the bottom board if the column is too far out of the ground. It all adds extra labor for a builder.