Permanent air line

[confederatemule]

What do y'all think about using 1" schedule 40 PVC pipe with 450 psi maximum working pressure as stationary air compressor line?

Mule

 

[wretched73]

Cheese and crackers. Is this a joke? No PVC air lines

 

[crewchief888]

SMH

 

[LX-Markham]

Go for it!

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Countdown to thread lock: 10...9...8...

Tommy

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

UGH....ok, he only has 40 posts. Maybe its possible someone here doesn’t know you NEVER use PVC pipe for compressed air. It’s as simple as that. There are a myriad of threads here explaining why.

If you “know someone who has had it for 20 years...” etc. Well, you don’t belong here. Best of luck.

 

[Stuart in MN]

What do y'all think about using 1" schedule 40 PVC pipe with 450 psi maximum working pressure as stationary air compressor line?

Mule

That pressure rating is for liquids, not gases. Liquids are non compressible, while gases can be greatly compressed. If you have a PVC pipe running pressurized liquid and there's a break, the the liquid will squirt out but it won't expand. On the other hand, if you run pressurized gas in a PVC pipe and there's a break, the gas will rapidly expand and because PVC is not ductile it will shatter, sending broken shards of PVC everywhere. There are several of us here on the board who have seen the aftermath of this sort of thing first hand. There will be sharp bits of PVC stuck in the walls all over the place - just imagine if you were standing in the way when it happened.

If you look at the specifications for PVC pipe, every manufacturer will state that it is for use with liquids only, and in fact it's an OSHA violation to use it in a commercial shop.

So, play it safe and don't use PVC for compressed air lines.

 

[confederatemule]

That pressure rating is for liquids, not gases. Liquids are non compressible, while gases can be greatly compressed. If you have a PVC pipe running pressurized liquid and there's a break, the the liquid will squirt out but it won't expand. On the other hand, if you run pressurized gas in a PVC pipe and there's a break, the gas will rapidly expand and because PVC is not ductile it will shatter, sending broken shards of PVC everywhere. There are several of us here on the board who have seen the aftermath of this sort of thing first hand. There will be sharp bits of PVC stuck in the walls all over the place - just imagine if you were standing in the way when it happened.

If you look at the specifications for PVC pipe, every manufacturer will state that it is for use with liquids only, and in fact it's an OSHA violation to use it in a commercial shop.

So, play it safe and don't use PVC for compressed air lines.

Thanks, Stuart. I appreciate the explanation.

I did a search but came up with very little.

Mule

 

[confederatemule]

The first 5 comments to my question are examples of why I spend very little time on this forum.

 

[dfiler2]

Manufactures of PVC don't want you to even test a PVC line with air.

Hey Mule, I didn't see your post until I had already posted and I wanted to comment on it. I have to agree there are a lot of people here who seem to believe they were born with all the knowledge they have, they don't seem to realize they learned it at some point. Ignore them, there are a lot of really good people here and an unbelievable amount of good practical experience.

 

[confederatemule]

Manufactures of PVC don't want you to even test a PVC line with air.

Hey Mule, I didn't see your post until I had already posted and I wanted to comment on it. I have to agree there are a lot of people here who seem to believe they were born with all the knowledge they have, they don't seem to realize they learned it at some point. Ignore them, there are a lot of really good people here and an unbelievable amount of good practical experience.

Thanks, dfiler2, for the polite response. I have no problem with the responses that say no, but there should never be any reason for rudeness. I see it almost everytime I look around this forum. But you are correct when you say it is not everyone and there is lots of knowledge here. I am 72 years old and spent most of my working years as a mechanic, millwright, machinist or welder. Mostly a mechanic, but I still learn new and better ways of doing thangs every day.

Mule

 

[log man]

We had a guy cut into a 6 in copper airline once (cut on the wrong side of a cutoff valve). It tore open with a huge gash, blew him off the man lift dangling by his safety strap 30 feet up. I’ll never forget how powerful compressed gases are.

 

[R6 Racer]

Mule, Don't take the comments to heart at all! Seriously.

P.V.C. & air lines is a topic that has many many times caused problems... IE... thread locks, arguments, & other stuff, trolling & the like. I don't think there is another topic on this forum anywhere that's as infamous.Any other topic wouldn't have gotten those results.
So, again, without a doubt, not you, but the topic.

Enjoy your time here. I know I do.
Besides, there's a wealth of knowledge to be accessed.


Steve

 

[Stuart in MN]

Thanks, Stuart. I appreciate the explanation.

I did a search but came up with very little.

Mule

One shortcoming of this forum is the search function - for some reason, searching for words or phrases containing three letters or less (like PVC) doesn't work.

 

[tonyciambrone]

The first 5 comments to my question are examples of why I spend very little time on this forum.

Have you ever considered the merits of Drywall vs OSB?

 

[confederatemule]

Have you ever considered the merits of Drywall vs OSB?

All I know about drywall (what I call sheet rock) is that I refuse to use it fer anythang. I do have some in my house but it was there when I bought the house.
OSB (what I call wafer board) is what I use everywhere I can.

I have no idea about the merits of either one.

Mule

 

[confederatemule]

I watched the video that dfiler2 gave a link to. It made sense.

I won't be using PVC. I am not sure what I will be using because of the cost.

All I have ever seen used is black iron pipe. I've been working in Garages fer 61 years. I have seen PVC in a couple of quick lube type places recently. I am not aware of seeing anything else.

 

[Whasat]

I watched the video that dfiler2 gave a link to. It made sense.

I won't be using PVC. I am not sure what I will be using because of the cost.

All I have ever seen used is black iron pipe. I've been working in Garages fer 61 years. I have seen PVC in a couple of quick lube type places recently. I am not aware of seeing anything else.

I used 3/4" PEX for my compressed air lines. It works well, however it is not as easy to handle a 300' roll of PEX as I had envisioned it being before I started. I believe it is ductile enough to not send shards flying if you have a rupture.

You can get special PEX that is rated for compressed air, I just used the same stuff I used for my water line. Get a good crimper and it's easy enough to install.

 

[fdtrucks]

I grew up in the midwest. Black iron pipe was in every shop I worked in, every shop on that local farmers had, etc. I later moved to FL and black iron pipe was nowhere to be found. It was all PVC everywhere. I was a tech rep for ppg at the time so I was in hundreds of shops across central, and east coast FL. Some of these shops air systems were 30-40 yrs old. Even in some of the training centers and tech schools had it. I questioned it initially, but it eventually became the new norm to see PVC in every shop. After I joined the GJ, I noticed everyone here saw it as Armageddon and you were going to kill yourself, your spouse, kids and grandkids with it. I am willing to bet real money that the majority that overreact to pvc airlines on this forum have had no experience with it in their life other than what they read from others on here and want to come off as over knowledgeable. Every forum has those topics that get the bandwagon going. PVC just happens to be GJ bandwagon topic. Ever go on the bob is the oil guy forum? They will come at you even worse if you say anything about their beloved PYB, or penzoil yellow bottle lol.

For the record, in my last garage I had black iron pipe, and in my current house, I havent gotten anything permanent set up yet, but plan on black iron pipe. I did however get really cheap for building my shed. I ran pvc from the garage, along the ground to the back corner of my yard. I needed air back there for my framing nailer to build a shed and it only cost me $25 to make that happen lol. It was only set up like that for about 3 weeks and did fine.

 

[fdtrucks]

Mule, I forgot to mention. A way around the search function issue is to go to google, type in what you are looking for, then add garage journal. It will give you better results than the forums search feature will.

We should make a sticky of all the GJ hacks lol.

 

[texasprd]

When I was preparing to run air lines in my garage years ago, I asked one of the biggest pneumatic/hydraulic sales/repair shops in San Antonio about what to use. The guy there said there is one flavor of PVC that's approved for use with compressed air, but it's rare and expensive. He said oil from the compressor will degrade regular PVC, so that is why it should not be used. He recommended iron pipe or copper - I went with copper.

 

[Flail]

https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

 

[HoosierBuddy]

When I was preparing to run air lines in my garage years ago, I asked one of the biggest pneumatic/hydraulic sales/repair shops in San Antonio about what to use. The guy there said there is one flavor of PVC that's approved for use with compressed air, but it's rare and expensive. He said oil from the compressor will degrade regular PVC, so that is why it should not be used. He recommended iron pipe or copper - I went with copper.

There was some PVC at one point that was rated for gas. It caused a lot of problems and was withdrawn from the market. This was in the 70's IIRC.

For a business owner using PVC air lines opens you up to OSHA violations. For a private individual, it would just be civil liability if it blew up and hurt someone. What would be tragic is if the plaintiff could come here on the forum and see where someone told you it was wrong and you posted in that thread that you were aware that it wasn't allowed but you knew better.

Better call "The Hammer".

Phil

 

[isb cornbinder]

I installed over-size black iron pipe throughout my shop in 1991. There has been a few rust flakes arriving at the air outlets, but nothing I worry about.
The extra large size pipe is an extension of the air storage capacity of the system. If I shut the air off at the compressor, and open an air blow gun it takes aver a minute to empty the shop lines.
I installed my black iron system because I had the RIDGID power threader and related tools, at that time. The local tool rental has the machinery I can rent if I ever have to do black iron pipe again.
Cutting to length, threading and installing is time consuming, but a custom job, well done makes me happy.
Don't forget to allow for a few drops in the middle of the shop ceiling. The two I have are capped at this time. In the not so distant past these drops, with 4 foot whips were my favorite go to air supply. My shop has another 6 Milton "M" fitting in the walls. Don't forget to put a MILTON "M" outside.

 

[dr_clyde]

If you're on a budget and don't have pipe threading tools or don't want to sweat copper, look into the Maxline system. Cheap and comes with all the fittings you need. Designed for compressed air systems.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005FKYRTU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Toomanytools?]

UGH....ok, he only has 40 posts. Maybe its possible someone here doesn’t know you NEVER use PVC pipe for compressed air. It’s as simple as that. There are a myriad of threads here explaining why.

If you “know someone who has had it for 20 years...” etc. Well, you don’t belong here. Best of luck.

Don't think this is in the USA, PVC rated at 700+ PSI

http://www.girpi.com/professionnels/en/pression/girair/

 

[confederatemule]

I'll be honest.
My reason fer black iron is that I can get it second hand fer the price of removing it. I have pipe threading and cutting tools. I have no problem with second hand black iron.

Although I am reading more and more positive about PVC. I think a lot of the problem is a rigid connection to an object that tends to vibrate, ever so lightly. Another problem is using thin wall PVC.

 

[JCQuick]

Mule please don't let a few keep you from this great forum, I have a friend that has his bead blaser plumed with PVC. most of it is outside the building, it has been that way 20+ years in the Florida sun. It has had a few leaks but never blew. With that said i did my shop in black iron I was able to get the pipe from a friend of mine that owns a plumbing company so that helped with the price

 

[MrSurly]

I posted on here about the possibility of using the Devil pipe *UNDERGROUND* and I got sliced-n-diced at the mention.
I'm probably going to end up doing copper, after pricing black iron 3/4 at 3 bux a foot from the plumbing supply house (domestic pipe). At Lowes, the import pipe was 1.67. It looks like CU is going to be about 3 bux as well.

Given those prices, I will be looking into all of the alternatives.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I am willing to bet real money that the majority that overreact to pvc airlines on this forum have had no experience with it in their life other than what they read from others on here and want to come off as over knowledgeable.

You're probably right in that most people have not seen PVC airline failures but that doesn't mean it isn't a real thing.

There are several of us here on the board who have seen the aftermath of this sort of thing first hand.

Like a lot of other things in life, it will work just fine up until the moment when it fails.

 

[Flail]

http://www.jmeagle.com/sites/default/files/TB09TempEffectsonPVC.pdf

See this also. At 140 degrees, pressure rating 22% compared to 73 degrees.
Air coming out of compressor is frequently hotter than 140.

 

[bad_idea]

Every forum has it's hot button topics. You just managed to nail the biggest one with this thread. A few years ago it was a big discussion frequently. Many folks wanted to debate, saying PVC was God's answer to airlines. Became a running joke. Some folks likely assumed (like I did) that you were trolling.

PVC is not a safe pipe type for compressed gas. Could injure someone. At 72, it could be your grand kids passing through the shop that get hit with shrapnel. Small risk, why take the risk though?

Please don't let folks comments detour you from the forum. I have been a member here for a few years. Good group of people with lots of knowledge. Quite a few assholes, just have to ignore them. Glad to have you, show off some of your projects. Would like to see them.

 

[tdkkart]

This problem could be reduced considerably if the site's search engine was worth 2 shits.

Just go ahead and type in "PVC air lines" into the search box on the home page and you get nothing, ZERO results. If type in "PVC air lines" without quotes in the advanced search page, you get a zillion returns, most of which have no relevance whatsoever.

So, it's not entirely the OP's fault.