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Permit Denied !!!!!

thomask

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Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
354
Location
Sunshine State
A big part of getting a variance is doing your homework...do everything they ask for, get neighbor's signatures, provide clear and easy to read plans, explain clearly why you think you deserve the variance, when you appear before the variance board wear nice clothes and comb your hair :) and so on.

I had to get a variance for the height of my garage (it was higher than normal), and went to the board meeting I was surprised at how ill-prepared most of the other people were - they didn't have all the information they were asked to bring, they couldn't provide a compelling reason for the variance, and frankly some of them looked like they had just crawled out of a hole somewhere. They all got shot down, but my request was approved with little fanfare.

:thumbup:
STUART, you sir are right on point, do your homework, show respect for the process and be professional to the Board Members. This goes a long way with these type requests and chances of a positive outcome increase greatly.
:thumbup:
 
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mad57

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Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,698
Good luck on this first the commitee is a bunch of schmucks at least in my town there the few who have no life and look for power where nobody else gives a ship, so having ur papers in order is a plus second: start attending meetings and let them see ur face.. also look up ecode.com and reasearch ur rules and regs under ur town, see if ur in a historical district or farm area all that could help u or hurt you, and last but not least with power hungry morons keep a cool head no sirs and ship just polite enough, and third: get in touch with the local yahoo lawyer that youll see the most since ur going to meetings get his number in person in front of the commitee before a town meeting its good to show u mean business if you have too good ole boy lawyers get anything through,, and its totally legal to record ur meeting by video for record as long as it doesnt interfer with the meeting or use there a.c power.. ask me how i know all this... and won building my 30x80. good luck.
 

twostory

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Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
554
Location
Duluth, Georgia
I had to get a variance. My county list the variances & decisions on-line. So I read every single variance for the last 2 years, printed out anything similar to mine and used them as a template for my application. I also attended the monthly variance meeting the month before my hearing. I found that my county allowed most variances that were reasonable and only denied something extreme or if many neighbors complained (and showed up at the hearing)
 

blue dog

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Jul 4, 2010
Messages
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Location
Culver City Ca.
I personally deal with zoning and planning and city council meetings at least 3 or 4 times a year, what i will tell you is that there is some good advice here. That being said, i would start by asking all your surrounding neighbors to sign a petition that you print up stating that they have no objection to your build.
Secondly, do not refer to your build as a shop, it is a garage, shop has a certain connotation to it that these people do not understand. 3rd try to make plan size renderings in color that depict exactly what you are doing to show to the council or committee. People have no vision and can not understand what you are trying to convey unless they can actually see it for themselves. Bring a plan size plot plan like you showed previously in this post. I would all so recommend attending a council meeting prior to the one that will pertain to your project so you understand the process better. Drive your neighborhood and see if any one else has what you want to do, if so , digitally document it, with the address and print these photos out to take with you to the council. It is much easier if someone all ready has done what you are trying to do. Be polite and organized and act accordingly and you should be fine. Believe me, i have left coastal commission meetings where my blood was about to boil over due to members not having a single clue.
Good luck
 

6768rogues

Banned
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Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,524
Location
Western NY
Just for the heck of it, get a copy of the actual code and read it carefully. My son was denied a permit. The code had three conditions that were separated by "or". The town interpreted it as "and". Or separates alternatives; and is all inclusive. He met two of the three conditions. After being denied a permit and denied a variance, he went to county court and proved that the town misinterpreted its own code, and he won. When the town called to tell him his permit was ready, he told them that the court determined that the size was not an issue, so he added another 9-foot bay to the building. Screw them. The moral of the story is-read the code with your own eyes and make sure you are actually in violation.
 
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slowtwitch

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Sep 19, 2006
Messages
169
My great wife :bowdown: is going out today and tomorrow with a petition. She's going to get signatures from everyone in the neighborhood, not only on our street, but, around the corner as well. I'm also attending a zoning meeting on thrusday, to get a feel of the workings.

more to come.....
 

blue dog

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Jul 4, 2010
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4,051
Location
Culver City Ca.
My great wife :bowdown: is going out today and tomorrow with a petition. She's going to get signatures from everyone in the neighborhood, not only on our street, but, around the corner as well. I'm also attending a zoning meeting on thrusday, to get a feel of the workings.

more to come.....

It is important to get all the homes that surround your property to sign. both sides behind and in front, these are the most crucial.
Good luck
 

Skyline

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Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,586
If denied, you could always move the planned structure 10 ft forward, and conect it to your house with a short breezeway. If it starts to look bad in the zoning meeting, you could nicely explain to them that, one way or the other, you are building; and you think it would look better without a breezeway. And if you connected the garage to your house, then you could put up an additional shed up to ~450 sq ft.
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
If it starts to look bad in the zoning meeting, you could nicely explain to them that, one way or the other, you are building;

Oh, that's really good advice. So - you'd build anyway without the clearance and put your self in hock and in jail. Not smart, not gonna work. Read up, from his local codes. Note the emphasis, EACH DAY is a separate violation:

"Sec. 123-18. Penalties and enforcement. (a) Any person or entity required to file an application for a premises license and inspection, and who fails to file as required, shall be subject, upon conviction, to a fine of not less than $100.00, and not more than $1,000.00, or imprisonment of not more than 90 days, or both, together with costs of prosecution. Each day a required application has not been filed for any dwelling or rooming unit shall constitute a separate offense under this section.

(b) Any person who allows occupancy or collects rent, or authorizes the collection of rent, with respect to any dwelling, dwelling unit, or rooming unit which is not licensed and inspected in accordance with the provisions of this chapter shall be subject, upon conviction, to a fine of not less than $100.00, and not more than $1,000.00, or imprisonment of not more than 90 days, or both, together with costs of prosecution. Each day such violations continues shall be a separate offense for each dwelling unit or rooming unit. All applications filed pursuant to this housing code shall have endorsed thereon, and signed by the applicant, an affirmation that the applicant understands that false statements made therein are subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S. Section 4904, relating to unsworn falsification to authorities.

(c) The director of building and planning or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to administer and enforce the provisions of this chapter, and the director or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to administer and enforce the provisions of this chapter, and to conduct such investigations, inspections, surveys, and examinations as may be necessary to determine compliance with the provisions of this code during all reasonable hours, after presenting proper identification to the individual in charge of any dwelling. Should the duly authorized representative of the building and planning department be unable to gain access to any dwelling, the department is hereby authorized to apply for a warrant to the District Justice of the Peace, stating by affidavit that he has been refused entry, and that he has reason to believe that a violation of this code exists.

(d) Upon failure of any owner to correct any violation of this chapter within the time required hereby, said owner or the principals thereof, shall be subject to a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $1,000.00 for each such violation, or not more than 90 days imprisonment, or both. Each violation, and each day such violation continues, shall be considered a separate offense.

(Ord. No. 90-4, § 18, 4-19-90; Ord. No. 91-11, § 3, 4-24-91)"
 

twostory

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Dec 23, 2005
Messages
554
Location
Duluth, Georgia
If denied, you could always move the planned structure 10 ft forward, and conect it to your house with a short breezeway. If it starts to look bad in the zoning meeting, you could nicely explain to them that, one way or the other, you are building; and you think it would look better without a breezeway. And if you connected the garage to your house, then you could put up an additional shed up to ~450 sq ft.

This is a good idea, but state it this way in your application.

"Under the current rules I could build a garage of size AxB, with a breeze way attaching this garage to my house (no variance required). But a detached garage of size AxB, in my proposed location, would look better on my property for the following reasons: **, yy, zz, etc."

This lets everyone know what you will do if the variance is denied, but does not sound "adversarial"
 

mopar4wd

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Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
64
Location
East of the river CT
I have a friend here in CT who took a different approach, The codes let him build the size he wanted but the setback would have forced it away from his driveway as he had a narrow lot. He didn't talk to any neighbors because he was afraid they would shoot it down as it took up half his back yard (no size restrictions in town at the time just setbacks) So he wanted till a really busy meeting and got it wedged in claimed a hardship would be having to turn his boat trailer into the garage if he could not line it up with the driveway. They looked at a drawing of his house (on graph paper) asked if there was any objection, None approved.
 

Skyline

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Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,586
Oh, that's really good advice. So - you'd build anyway without the clearance and put your self in hock and in jail. Not smart, not gonna work. Read up, from his local codes. Note the emphasis, EACH DAY is a separate violation:

"Sec. 123-18. Penalties and enforcement. (a) Any person or entity required to file an application for a premises license and inspection, and who fails to file as required, shall be subject, upon conviction, to a fine of not less than $100.00, and not more than $1,000.00, or imprisonment of not more than 90 days, or both, together with costs of prosecution. Each day a required application has not been filed for any dwelling or rooming unit shall constitute a separate offense under this section.

(b) Any person who allows occupancy or collects rent, or authorizes the collection of rent, with respect to any dwelling, dwelling unit, or rooming unit which is not licensed and inspected in accordance with the provisions of this chapter shall be subject, upon conviction, to a fine of not less than $100.00, and not more than $1,000.00, or imprisonment of not more than 90 days, or both, together with costs of prosecution. Each day such violations continues shall be a separate offense for each dwelling unit or rooming unit. All applications filed pursuant to this housing code shall have endorsed thereon, and signed by the applicant, an affirmation that the applicant understands that false statements made therein are subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S. Section 4904, relating to unsworn falsification to authorities.

(c) The director of building and planning or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to administer and enforce the provisions of this chapter, and the director or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to administer and enforce the provisions of this chapter, and to conduct such investigations, inspections, surveys, and examinations as may be necessary to determine compliance with the provisions of this code during all reasonable hours, after presenting proper identification to the individual in charge of any dwelling. Should the duly authorized representative of the building and planning department be unable to gain access to any dwelling, the department is hereby authorized to apply for a warrant to the District Justice of the Peace, stating by affidavit that he has been refused entry, and that he has reason to believe that a violation of this code exists.

(d) Upon failure of any owner to correct any violation of this chapter within the time required hereby, said owner or the principals thereof, shall be subject to a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $1,000.00 for each such violation, or not more than 90 days imprisonment, or both. Each violation, and each day such violation continues, shall be considered a separate offense.

(Ord. No. 90-4, § 18, 4-19-90; Ord. No. 91-11, § 3, 4-24-91)"

You should go back and read my post, which you obviously misunderstood. I in no way suggested building without a permit.

I think it's highly likely that if the OP were to attach this garage to his house, he could build the size he wanted, without a variance. I would also assume that for most building inspectors, a breezeway would be sufficient to consider the garage attached.
 
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HenryG

Active member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
36
Location
Washington State
I look forward to hearing how this turns out. I ran into all kinds of problems with the garage I had built with this house. I'm in the process of doing it all over again with a "new" house.
 
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slowtwitch

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Sep 19, 2006
Messages
169
I look forward to hearing how this turns out. I ran into all kinds of problems with the garage I had built with this house. I'm in the process of doing it all over again with a "new" house.


I go for my variance hearing this Thursday night :)
 

lylemac

Active member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26
Good luck. Hopefully with all of the legwork you have done it will not be a problem and you will be approved
 
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m.james

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Sep 27, 2010
Messages
230
I don't see why they won't accept your hard ship but there probably an exception in the code that might let you build bigger if lets say you work out of your home. Permitting ***** good luck to you.

In the Words of the Dude: That's a bummer man.
 
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stricht8

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Apr 20, 2008
Messages
1,714
Attach it to your house with a breezeway or corridor. That way it won't be an accessory structure. Appeals usually get nowhere from my experience.
 

Hmrhead

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Aug 23, 2010
Messages
243
Location
Rochester, MI
Get this, guy across street asks me to help him carry the base for a shed he is building. 10x12 big enough to get the lawn mower and trash cans out of the garage. We level it up, I help him set the walls. He works on it for a couple of days comes home and finds a red stop work tag. The township where we live as of Jan. 2010 requires a permit for anything over 25 sqft!! So he had to draw up plans and submit them to the building dept. pay for the permit and wait for the approval and a green okay to build sticker.
 

MScott

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Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,616
Location
Eastern Ontario
Get this, guy across street asks me to help him carry the base for a shed he is building. 10x12 big enough to get the lawn mower and trash cans out of the garage. We level it up, I help him set the walls. He works on it for a couple of days comes home and finds a red stop work tag. The township where we live as of Jan. 2010 requires a permit for anything over 25 sqft!! So he had to draw up plans and submit them to the building dept. pay for the permit and wait for the approval and a green okay to build sticker.

25 sqft? That's not much more than a dog house. Municipalities are just getting too greedy....they want their hands in your pocket for everything.
 
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slowtwitch

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Sep 19, 2006
Messages
169
Just got back from the hearing. After all the leg work and preparing for the zoning board hearing, my variance request was.............................................................................



GRANTED !!!!!!!



Time to build :)
 

dougmac

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Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
253
Just got back from the hearing. After all the leg work and preparing for the zoning board hearing, my variance request was.............................................................................



GRANTED !!!!!!!



Time to build :)

Awesome!! Congratulations!! :thumbup:
 

BRIANBB

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Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
394
Location
Katy Texas
Congrats!! And as ddawg says,,,,,,"WHERE ARE THE BUILD PICS?" You should be almost finished by now!
 

Holedgr

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Jun 21, 2006
Messages
358
Yes, *******.......now let the build comence (and the pictures flow)....CONGRATS!!

-T
 
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slowtwitch

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Sep 19, 2006
Messages
169
good luck. tell them you are trying to stimulate the economy (local) by spending your money, and they in term also get tax revenue as well

To be honest, the zoning board were some nice folks. I went to last months meeting to get a feel of the land and found that they really tried to help the people with their issues, they didn't deny anybody that night. I was third on the docket, on Thursday and the two cases before me were approved. One young fellow didn't have all his paper work and they worked a solution and approved his variance. It was nice to see some common sense.
 
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