Permits question

[JackOfDiamonds]

I would like to know how the permit process works where you are compared to my region (Idaho).

In my city I requested online a permit for new branch circuits and new sub panel. It was $110 each, so $220 total. Does that sound typical of your location? It was more than I expected.

My state doesn't require work to be done by licensed contractors as long as it's your own house. So I'm allowed to do my own electrical work. Is it tge same where you are?

Third, I paid for the permits and the online system shows "issued". I'm not sure what to do next. It's almost like the city already reviewed my application and approved it. But sort of assumed that somebody would have to review what I plan to do and approve it before I get started on work. Then somebody would also have to inspect the final result before I closed up the sheetrock. At least that's how it worked back in Ohio. What is the sequence of things in your region...do you pay for the permit first, then pre inspection, then post inspection? Do you just pay for the permit and only get an inspection it the city decides you need one?

 

[Innovate1]

This varies all over the place. Can't you just call them and ask? That would be the best plan. I have lived in places that didn't even have permits for anything but septic systems (which was a state requirement) and places that make it very difficult/expensive. Where I am that total was the approximate cost for all the permits for a new 1200 sq ft garage with electric, HVAC, and a half bath. I looked up cost for electric permits not part of a bigger permit: "Cost for electrical: Change of service or addition/repair: $25." These are likely below many areas.

From my experience for electric updates there would be an inspection before the sheetrock goes up and one after it is up and things are finished. If there are buried lines they often need inspection before they are covered. We pay once up front and are responsible to call for inspections when needed. When I wondered if they wanted to see my in ground conduits for power I just called them. They said no need for inspection so I back filled and kept going.

 

[engineer2]

You are going to get 3000 different answers on GJ, but generally you can ask the local gov at what stage(s) they want to come out, and then invite the guy when you are ready. Obviously they will want to look at everything while it is still open and maybe when it's done.
Stone veneer: before stone went up.
Fence repair: I don't think anyone ever came out
Shed: after construction is complete

We require electrical work to be done by a licensed electrician, but they have no way of enforcing it. You might get a "please come down for a $35 permit" note from the village if they notice any obvious construction. They can't control what you do inside your home and you are free to butcher it if you like. The previous owner of my home butchered the "finished" basement. Obviously, if you don't know what you are doing, hire someone. Time-of-home-sale checks for past permits are rare too.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In my city I requested online a permit for new branch circuits and new sub panel. It was $110 each, so $220 total. Does that sound typical of your location? It was more than I expected.

Sounds high, especially for the branch circuit.

My state doesn't require work to be done by licensed contractors as long as it's your own house. So I'm allowed to do my own electrical work. Is it te same where you are?

Same.

Just had a water heater replaced. Contractor collected the permit fee and said the inspector would get in touch to schedule the inspection several weeks n he future.

 

[Terry D]

If your permit is "issued" It has been approved and you are allowed to start work. As far as prices, It varies all over. Some places charge you more if you need 2 inspections . Example being a rough/cover inspection and a final inspection

 

[sparky 1971]

Pricing is all over the place. Each city here is different, from $25 to do whatever you want all the way up to $50 per 100 amps of service, $25 per inspection, $5 per circuit or fixed appliance, and $0.35 per fixture.

Your permit says issued, so it has been approved. You can start work, call for an inspection when the wiring is done, but before drywall goes up. Then call for a final when you are 100% done. I have never seen an electrical permit get reviewed for anything other than the price matches up to the items permitted. I have seen new construction electrical permits get held up because the building department was still reviewing the plans though.

You could always call the permit office to see what steps to take since every jurisdiction handles it different.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It is pointless to compare permitting processes.... it will vary so widely.. whats the point?

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

It's interesting to know what is normal and typical across the country and also what the differences are.

 

[TRWham]

I will add that in my area, across most AHJs we work with, puling an electrical permit for any interior electrical work will trigger the requirement to bring your smoke/CO detectors up to the current IRC 314 and 315 requirements for hardwired and networked detectors.

 

[mike93lx]

It is pointless to compare permitting processes.... it will vary so widely.. whats the point?

Because it may be an interesting conversation? Some people are curious.

To the OP, $110 for just a branch circuit seems very high. And having to pull two for work being done at once seems nuts

My county (Henrico County, VA) is $102 for the first $5k of work.

 

[billconner]

Building and zoning permits here are inexpensive and include all inspections except electrical. Electrical inspections are done by state approved inspectirs, and owner pays the inspector directly for the inspection. Rough and final. But the inspector was also available for answering questions, no additional cost, which was nice, an interesting aspect of the inspector working and being paid by you directly.

 

[tpcolson]

I would like to know how the permit process works where you are compared to my region (Idaho).

In my city I requested online a permit for new branch circuits and new sub panel. It was $110 each, so $220 total. Does that sound typical of your location? It was more than I expected.

My state doesn't require work to be done by licensed contractors as long as it's your own house. So I'm allowed to do my own electrical work. Is it tge same where you are?

Third, I paid for the permits and the online system shows "issued". I'm not sure what to do next. It's almost like the city already reviewed my application and approved it. But sort of assumed that somebody would have to review what I plan to do and approve it before I get started on work. Then somebody would also have to inspect the final result before I closed up the sheetrock. At least that's how it worked back in Ohio. What is the sequence of things in your region...do you pay for the permit first, then pre inspection, then post inspection? Do you just pay for the permit and only get an inspection it the city decides you need one?

220$ is the steep end, and I'm not sure you needed to do it twice? That's unusual. As far as the process, most jurisdictions have a rough-in (all your wires run, panel installed, breakers in, fire proofing, etc, but nothing energized), and a final (all fixed appliances installed and working, all outlet covers on, lightbulbs in). Based on the cost, sounds like you're in one of those jurisdictions that requires everything and the kitchen sink, make sure your work doesn't require certain upgrades. Some of the gotchya's include upgrading to 2 grounding rods, arc faults everywhere, etc, maybe EV charger (e.g california). There are also significant differences if your garage is detached or not. In my jurisdiction, the local PoCo won't put the meter on unless a licensed electrician did the panel. They don't care what else you did in the house, they won't touch the meter if you (the homeowner) did any work in the panel, and they don't care what the law says the homeowner can do. They'll pull the meter, but won't put it back on unless the licensed electrician is on site. Ask how I know....

 

[mcbane]

If I understand your pricing ($220 for a new sub-panel AND multiple branch circuits) it is consistent with rural California. Prices in the city are way higher, mostly due to incidentals. For example, the electrician may be required to be present for the inspection, which is a 1/2 day time slot. So your 30 minute job just turned into 4-1/2 billable hours. And many jobs will require a significant "permit expediter" expense - essentially a way of laundering bribe money to corrupt city officials.

 

[mike93lx]

If I understand your pricing ($220 for a new sub-panel AND multiple branch circuits) it is consistent with rural California. Prices in the city are way higher, mostly due to incidentals. For example, the electrician may be required to be present for the inspection, which is a 1/2 day time slot. So your 30 minute job just turned into 4-1/2 billable hours. And many jobs will require a significant "permit expediter" expense - essentially a way of laundering bribe money to corrupt city officials.

What does an electricians rate have to do with the cost of a permit?

 

[mcbane]

What does an electricians rate have to do with the cost of a permit?

The cost of a permit as the total difference in price of doing work up to code with a permit vs without a permit. So incidental costs such as paying a bribe or paying an electrician to wait for an inspection are quite pertinent.

 

[mike93lx]

The cost of a permit as the total difference in price of doing work up to code with a permit vs without a permit. So incidental costs such as paying a bribe or paying an electrician to wait for an inspection are quite pertinent.

I'm lost.

The permit costs 110. If an electrician needs to be on site, that's additional. Besides the OP is doing his own work

 

[mcbane]

I'm lost.

The permit costs 110. If an electrician needs to be on site, that's additional. Besides the OP is doing his own work

Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to the OP's question: 'I would like to know how the permit process works where you are compared to my region (Idaho)."

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Third, I paid for the permits and the online system shows "issued". I'm not sure what to do next.

You might have to go to the permit office, pay for the permit, and pick up a paper copy to post on site.

 

[nadogail]

If you have a real problem with the permitting process in your local area your options are very limited. They include:
Forget about pulling a permit and having the work inspected and approved.
Getting the Permitting Process changed; this might require you to run for office and get elected to the body that oversees process.
Move to an area where the process is more to your liking.
Just "**** It Up" and deal with the AHJ.

 

[billconner]

Maybe this should be standardized by the feds......not.

 

[FMB4]

Residential and commercial construction is absolutely booming here the Treasure Valley of ID. This might have an impact on the cost of permit process.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Electrical inspections are done by state approved inspectirs, and owner pays the inspector directly for the inspection.

That sounds ripe for "abuse".

 

[billconner]

That sounds ripe for "abuse".

I found it worked well for me, but obviously dependent on inspector. I had a list and could have called anyone of them.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

That sounds ripe for "abuse".

Not really. What that means is ... the price for the work quoted by the contractor does not include permits and fees, which will be either passed through at face value, or the owner can pay them direct.

 

[alfredeneuman]

At some point does the payment pass through the building dept so they can have a record of the charges?

 

[Half-fast eddie]

At some point does the payment pass through the building dept so they can have a record of the charges?

???
Payment goes TO the building dept. No pay, no permit. No record of payment, no final inspection.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Then what does the "and owner pays the inspector directly for the inspection" mean.
Is it an individual check issued to the inspector?

 

[mike93lx]

???
Payment goes TO the building dept. No pay, no permit. No record of payment, no final inspection.

I believe he is insinuating that the inspectors are pocketing payments.

 

[billconner]

A little googling but at least some large jurisdictions have their own full time electrical inspectors. Small rural jurisdictions and maybe some larger utilize state licensed inspectors, who report to the jurisdiction. The contractor or - if owner performed - the owner pays the inspector directly. I wrote his company a check. Seemed quite above board, certainly more so than many urban jurisdictions. Ask old timers in Chicago trades about matches.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Are they Special Inspectors?
"The inspections firm is retained by the project owner and serves as the owner's agent to ensure materials, methods, and contractor activities meet expectations and codes."
Special inspectors are usually hired for 1 ongoing project, not by a building dept.

 

[nadogail]

Permits? "We don't need your stinking permits".

 

[billconner]

Are they Special Inspectors?
"The inspections firm is retained by the project owner and serves as the owner's agent to ensure materials, methods, and contractor activities meet expectations and codes."
Special inspectors are usually hired for 1 ongoing project, not by a building dept.

No. Basically contractors for the jurisdiction. State licensed. They just don't bother with the village or town collecting a fee for electrical work and then paying the inspector. The project just pays inspector direct.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

I believe he is insinuating that the inspectors are pocketing payments.

Ask for a receipt.

 

[Shiftless]

Permits? "We don't need your stinking permits".

Don’t need badges either, right?

 

[Sumboodie]

No such thing here.

Permit to put in a driveway and septic permit is it.

 

[gba2331]

Permits? "We don't need your stinking permits".

Would your insurance company be able to deny coverage due to unpermitted work? This is why I pulled a permit for a simple hot tub sub panel (plus the peace of mind from having someone supposedly knowledgeable reviewing my work).

Note: this is a question, not a statement. I haven't checked my coverage so I don't know the answer myself.

 

[mike93lx]

Would your insurance company be able to deny coverage due to unpermitted work? This is why I pulled a permit for a simple hot tub sub panel (plus the peace of mind from having someone supposedly knowledgeable reviewing my work).

Does your policy allow for that exclusion? Anything beyond that is opinion and conjecture

 

[billconner]

A poster on a building code forum who is building a house in Alaska points out no permits are required but the state has building inspectors. The purpose is to certify the building is built to code because for future buyers seeking financing, lenders require it.

 

[gba2331]

Does your policy allow for that exclusion? Anything beyond that is opinion and conjecture

Agreed that 1) I have not read my policy closely enough to know, and 2) that this is conjecture (which is why I was asking a question instead of making a statement - but thanks for clarifying that this was not factual, I'll add that to the original post).

 

[u2slow]

Permits? "We don't need your stinking permits".

Heh. I'm not barking up the permit tree either.

I've had power to my shop one way or another for the last 8 years. Its still work-in-progress. I don't need the extra headache of somebody checking in to watch over my shoulder and insist on permit renewal fees.