permitting woes....looking for some help?

[vintagespeed1956]

i wasn't sure if this was the place to post my question so move as appropriate pls.

i have run into a problem that i need to address in the next couple weeks and i'm looking for some help.

back in December i framed up a storage shed to get the **** out of my garage, and it turned out pretty good. so good in fact that my "buddy" neighbor called the city on me and now i either have to cut it in half to satisfy the non-permit size limitations here or get it permitted. the permit is cheap at $135. i've already had to have another concrete pour to give it the proper setback from the property line which was an additional $1700..

i have drawn up the building in SolidWorks but i'm horrible at the drawings side and can't get my **** together to submit. would anyone here be willing to help me whip up the appropriate drawing views? i've never submitted plans to the city before and i'm a little lost at what is needed and how to generate the views.

 

[jgorm]

Can't you just output the solid works file as a 2d drawing?

 

[vintagespeed1956]

Can't you just output the solid works file as a 2d drawing?

well yes, but i have to provide the appropriate views to submit. i guess?

like top plot view, front/side view cutaways, elevation, etc. and i just dont do drawings often enough that i can do them properly.

i can build parts & assemblies and dimension my models but drawings are drafting. and i **** at the drafting apparently.

i'm messing with the .dwg editor now to see if i can figure this out.

 

[buddyboy]

call the building dept, or better yet go down there and ask them exactly what you need.

you're already going to have fun since you've built before the permit.

you could get away with a photo of it with sharpie marker showing the dimensions or you may need to submit full drawings... you won't know till you ask

 

[ddawg16]

LA County will accept a sketch on a napkin.

Just do a sketch by hand. If that is not good enough for them along with a printout of your Google Sketchup....then PM me.

That shed looks to be a 10x10....which in my area is ok without a permit.

I hope your neighbor understands the concept of "Payback is a *****".

And make sure someone did complain. A lot of cities have been pretty aggressive at looking for unpermitted work.

 

[SALIV8]

first, your neighbor is a *****. plain and simple. (as long as he did call). I'd ask him why he called. call him out. what a **** move.

second, I submitted plans on simple graph paper drawn to scale, and the county accepted them no problem. might try this easy option.

good luck.

 

[bczygan]

My job as an Architectural Designer included doing this more times than I can remember.

Here is what you do.

Call up the permitting authority and ask what drawings are required and what scales and paper sizes are acceptable. Make sure they know you are a humble homeowner and not a professional and that the project is a shed.

Probably you will need:
plot plan at 1"=10'
Floor plan at 1/4"=1'-0"
Elevations at 1/4"=1'-0"
And maybe a Section at 3/4"=1'0"

They may require drawings to be on a standard sheet size like 24x36, or you might get away with 11x17 (Legal size).

Include on each sheet of the drawings, the owners name and address, project name and date. Number the sheets 1 of 4, 2 of 4 etc.

If they require larger size sheets, I would just print my drawings out on standard size paper, take them to a copy place and have them copied onto larger paper.

Plot plan can be your mortgage survey with the shed located and drawn on it to scale and dimensioned.

On each drawing, label everything. On the elevations, indicate materials used, and material, size or weight. Like vinyl siding on OSB sheathing siding. On the section, indicate the spacing of the studs and floor and roof framing materials and sizes, like 2x4's at 16"o.c. Indicate min. 4" concrete slab on firm earth. Etc.

Indicate roof construction such as F.G. shingles on 15# felt on 7/16" OSB sheathing.

Use arrows to point at the materials you are describing.

Do a Google search for an example.

Dimension width, length and height.

Use the drawing you have and generate plans and elevations from that program.

You can hand draw on those with any additional notes you need.

Ask the authority how many copies they will need.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Here is an example:

http://www.oshawa.ca/documents/BLDG_Guide_Shed_Garage_Construction.pdf

 

[vintagespeed1956]

Bill - thank you! i am working my way thru the drawings, just not very quickly or very well but i appreciate the advice.

shed is 150sq/ft, over size by 30sq/ft. i should've got the permit first yes, but i'm a dumb son of a ***** and didn't know you needed one for a shed.

thanks all for your comments, yeah the neighbor is a *****. it's a long story, we were just all in New Orleans together in April..

the inspector left me a correction notice and talked to my wife, he said there was a complaint. same weekend, the neighbor planted a row of cypress trees on his side of the wall where the shed is, and across our joining front yards...pretty obvious if u ask me.

i would think it was funny if it hadn't already cost me $1700 and alot more if i have to tear this thing down!

 

[sublimate]

Bang his wife!

 

[LXCam]

Well you're already screwed since this will be considered a permanent structure and assuming the walls are your property lines, you're not compliant with the set back requirements. You can try moving forward with your game plan, but I've worked with that city on a multitude of occasions and they are a royal PITA!. I would highly suggest you be willing and ready to reduce the size down to conform to "shed" standards that don't require permitting. Good luck.

 

[Scout Driver]

Like others have said, call the appropriate office that needs the permit and ask exactly what they need.

I am a zoning administrator where I work. The most important thing we require is accurate setbacks to property lines or any easements. It is advisable to take a look at the deed (and deed history) to your property and make sure there are no easements on the area you intend to build. It's surprising how often people discover that the road right-of-way past their property intrudes farther than they know or that there are old access easements etc. across parts of their property. Also required by our office are a basic description of the building and its intended use and the size of the building. Nothing fancy is required here. Your jurisdiction may be more complicated.

If you are having trouble meeting setback or building size requirements, a variance from the zoning ordinance may be something you can pursue.

Best of luck to you!

Scott

 

[PCO6]

The above is good advice.

I'm a retired Town Planner, Planning Consultant and Land Developer and I have seen this type of issue from all sides. In defence of your neighbour, his concern apart from having to look at your building is how you are going to maintain something you can't access because you haven't built to the setback requirements.

 

[bczygan]

You might even be able to use the section in that example PDF and use whiteout or tape pieces of paper over the notes that don't apply and add ones that do. Print and make them legible by drawing light horizontal lines above and below each line of text, to align your text to. Make things uniform.

Don't forget to note the roof slope as 3 in 12 slope, or whatever your slope is. It is how much vertical rise there is in 12' of horizontal run.

For future reference, if you want to build without permits, find out ALL the zoning and building requirements and build to meet them, and document it all. That way, if discovered later, at least you won't have to tear it down or rebuild major portions. Many places will charge you double fees though.

Pay special attention to zoning requirements as they tell you what you can build, where, and how big and tall. Note that you have to meet all setback and area requirements, and not build over easements for utilities or other things. But some places let you build up to the property line if you use fireproof construction.

Another thing you can do is to meet the guy who will approve the plans, with what you think is a completed set of plans, and see if it meets his needs. If so, then run down to the copy shop and get the required copies.

One more thing to note on the plans is the size of any beams, joists, rafters and headers.

Bill

Side story about zoning. I had a design job once where the lot was on a corner and with required setbacks would only allow a 6' wide house. We had to get a variance to have a build-able lot, or sue the city for the value for a "Taking without compensation".
I designed a structure that maxed out the lot. Even had to let the upstairs kitchen overhang the setback by 6" and stair-step the garage bays for better entry.
Then the owner did politicking with the neighbors to get their support.

When the ZBA met and we presented, the head of the board said it was one of the best plans and presentations and they were happy to approve it. It was lakefront, so the owner was anxious.

 

[vintagespeed1956]

it's now setback 5' both directions (that pic was when i first put it together at 18" off the property lines), and now meets the requirement. the inspector previously stated that is all i had to do, then changed his mind. so i had concrete poured and moved the shed and now the size is his concern.

edit:

it's going to cost me much more than the permit fee to cut it down or cut it in half and re-frame, i have to have the storage space so it's staying either way. they did tell me there is no limit on the number of sheds i can have...so maybe i'll just fill the yard on the neighbor's side and paint them all pink.

 

[LXCam]

it's now setback 5' both directions (that pic was when i first put it together at 18" off the property lines), and now meets the requirement. the inspector previously stated that is all i had to do, then changed his mind. so i had concrete poured and moved the shed and now the size is his concern.

edit:

it's going to cost me much more than the permit fee to cut it down or cut it in half and re-frame, i have to have the storage space so it's staying either way. they did tell me there is no limit on the number of sheds i can have...so maybe i'll just fill the yard on the neighbor's side and paint them all pink.

LOL, I dig the pink-hopefully you don't have to deal with a HOA. Good luck bud, I used to know everyone down there very well but all those guys have retired. But the chief of police is a very close friend, so if you just so happen to hand your neighbor his ***, call me.

 

[bczygan]

Another reason for setbacks is for fire protection. It keeps fire from easily jumping from structure to structure. And utility easements, both above and below ground usually follow property lines as well.

And as mentioned above, while the pavement for a street may only be 20' wide, the right of way can be 66' or even mush more. Many are 120'. So if your lot is measured from the center of the street, as some are, especially on private roads, the first half of that R.O.W. comes out of your lot. I've had lots where the house design ended up right on the setback lines on all sides.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

it's now setback 5' both directions (that pic was when i first put it together at 18" off the property lines), and now meets the requirement. the inspector previously stated that is all i had to do, then changed his mind. so i had concrete poured and moved the shed and now the size is his concern.

edit:

it's going to cost me much more than the permit fee to cut it down or cut it in half and re-frame, i have to have the storage space so it's staying either way. they did tell me there is no limit on the number of sheds i can have...so maybe i'll just fill the yard on the neighbor's side and paint them all pink.

Since you have to get permits anyway, you could actually make it LARGER!

Check the zoning rules to see how big and how tall you can make it. It has a real shallow roof pitch right now. Are there trusses or rafters and joists? I like a lot steeper pitch and even a gambrel roof to get more volume.

There might not be a limit on the number of sheds, but zoning rules may limit the percentage of rear yard coverage, or the percent of the entire lot coverage by hard surfaces. In addition there may be minimum distances required between structures. Of course, that can be solved by connecting them together. Then you need permits if over 120SF. Technically you could build a series of 120SF sheds, 10' apart (A typical required minimum).

Bill

 

[ZRX61]

Should have buried the neighbor under the new pour.....

 

[toplessHO]

I think that if you boxed in the entry door 30 sq ft and made it an entry way
you might be able to do it without a permit.
But in my county once you pour any size floor its considered permanent. This is the reason for the temporary wood floor sheds. I had one in the back yard of my last house,12x24 with a single car garage door all legal because it was on skids and wood floor.

 

[PassnThru]

How exactly did you plan to put the siding on the back and wall side of that? Also, it appears that you would be dumping the rainwater from half the roof right over the wall into the neighbor's yard. Based on your trim, it would be assumed that you didn't plan for gutters. Your friend should have said something but I also would have been pi**ed if you built a roof that dumped onto my property. Maybe that's why he reported it?

 

[rburke65]

You read of some real horror stories on here where folks spar with the local building permit departments. It's never a good idea to kick that dog.......

 

[toplessHO]

You read of some real horror stories on here where folks spar with the local building permit departments. It's never a good idea to kick that dog.......

yep get in a ******* contest in a windstorm and someones gonna get wet.

 

[JACDes]

The above is good advice.

I'm a retired Town Planner, Planning Consultant and Land Developer and I have seen this type of issue from all sides. In defence of your neighbour, his concern apart from having to look at your building is how you are going to maintain something you can't access because you haven't built to the setback requirements.

You simply ask for permission to access his property to do maintenance. since maintenance is not " an everyday affair" is should not be an issue. That is what you do when you have "0" setbeck.

But the neighbor sounds like douche bag... the shed is on OPs' side of the fence so who cares, it's a shed.

BTW who brick fence is that... yours or the neighbor's... who is going to ask the other for permission for access to do tuck-pointing? if it's the neighbor's fence then I can understand his concern you left him no room to maintain the fence..

On the flip side feel free to "hard prune" any branches from his trees that encroach onto your property... and the fued rolls on LOL

No one wins these situations.. try to get past it and "kill him with kindness"
in hindsight you should have been the better person and told him you were thinking to put a shed in that corner to get his feel on it... or built no higher than the fence so he did not see it.. too late for that now.

 

[JACDes]

The truth is he blew the whistle on you and now the city wants the permit revenue you cheated them out of.

The First rule of "breaking rules" is knowing what you can get away with so you can't be punished.

 

[DekeT]

Bitching about the neighbor as if it was his fault for screwing up the whole thing.

 

[Tislane]

I would borrow the money if needed and build the largest, tallest allowed. In my town there is no height limit, and no hoa, a four story shed/clubhouse would be about right.

 

[Beemer533]

I was surprised with my shed, I called the city and they said i could build anything I wanted up to 144sqft without a permit.. Even on concrete... As long as I had at least 4' setback off any property line I was good to go.. My buddy lives a few miles away in N Syracuse and he says he has to pull a permit just to put up a dog house..

This post edited by the NSA

 

[ford33]

Sorry to hear about the permit issue.

A real estate developer in Rhode Island built a $1.8M home in 2010 on the waterfront and then discovered when he attempted to sell it that it was on public park land. He had permits and all but the site survey was incorrect.

Rhode Island Supreme court ruled in June that the home must be demolished or moved. Ouch.

http://www.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/content/20140613-r.i.-supreme-court-1.8-million-point-judith-house-must-go.ece

 

[Automobilist]

Why blame the neighbor? The original poster is the one who is either ignorant, or simply decided that the local rules don't apply to him.

 

[stikman56]

Why blame the neighbor? The original poster is the one who is either ignorant, or simply decided that the local rules don't apply to him.

Exactly this. Build right on the line, I'd ask you to move it back where it needs to be first. If you choose to be a douche about it, I'd handle it the way his neighbor did. Who wants to look at a shed right on top of their fence, or wall? I wouldn't. What would make anyone feel they're so special that the rules are for everyone else? Very basic rule we learned in kindergarten, treat others the way you wish to be treated. Some people just don't get that. Blame everyone else for what they caused. I don't think that's what the OP did here, but some of the responses sure were.

 

[CNGsaves]

Should have buried the neighbor under the new pour.....AND . . . banged his wife !!

^ ^ ^ Fixed it for ya !! . . .

 

[tbob]

Why not put up a new inside load bearing wall on the man door side and remove the existing wall. 30 sq. feet will not be missed. Position it to conform to size requirements. Leave the original roof line and make it look like a porch. You'll have evening shade. Throw in a couple of lawnchairs with a well stocked cooler. Invite the neighbor over and mend fences. Life's to SHORT! Don't sweat the small stuff.

Tbob

 

[coldh2o]

Why blame the neighbor? The original poster is the one who is either ignorant, or simply decided that the local rules don't apply to him.

+1. This is a nice looking shed, but rules are rules. If the OP's neighbour built a crappy chicken house on the lot line, would you guys suggest he ignore it? Nope, I've seen the threads.

 

[nehog]

...

Probably you will need:
plot plan at 1"=10'
Floor plan at 1/4"=1'-0"
Elevations at 1/4"=1'-0"
And maybe a Section at 3/4"=1'0"

They may require drawings to be on a standard sheet size like 24x36, or you might get away with 11x17 (Legal size).
...

Just to pick a nit, 11x17 is ledger, not legal. And many professional/business laser printers will print 11x17 (mine do) just fine. In my case, my building inspector was quite happy with 11x17 and double sized (tape on the back).

 

[DekeT]

I would borrow the money if needed and build the largest, tallest allowed. In my town there is no height limit, and no hoa, a four story shed/clubhouse would be about right.

I don't understand how your reaction in your neighborhood has anything to do with what the OP is faced with in his. SO, in your neighborhood the complaint would have gone nowhere but you would build a 4 story shed with borrowed money for spite. That is some bravado there.

 

[SweetD]

Sorry to hear about the permit issue.

A real estate developer in Rhode Island built a $1.8M home in 2010 on the waterfront and then discovered when he attempted to sell it that it was on public park land. He had permits and all but the site survey was incorrect.

Rhode Island Supreme court ruled in June that the home must be demolished or moved. Ouch.

http://www.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/content/20140613-r.i.-supreme-court-1.8-million-point-judith-house-must-go.ece

My hometown! Freaking crazy!

 

[PT Doc]

It's always the neighbors fault.