Never used the stuff, always been a copper guy and I'm pretty good with it. I may be doing some small plumbing jobs, water not HVAC. Is there any advantage in trying pex? I know it's flexible and easier to run. I have everything I need to work copper and wouldn't want to invest in any more plumbing tools, I don't know if any are needed. Will I save any money or a significant amount of time or labor? I'm looking for opinions from people who have experience with both materials. Also, I have a few lengths of copper and a lot of fittings in stock. Sounds like I'm talking myself out of using PEX. Still would like to hear your opinions.
PEX - Educate Me
- Thread starter fasteddie
- Start date
Dirtydan69
Well-known member
Crimper and a tubing cutter should be about all you’ll need.
3rdgendslmech
Well-known member
Depending on the size of your jobs......the crimpers will cost more than the tubing and fittings.
neblinc
Well-known member
Don't get the compression copper crimpers, Impossible to use in tight spots.
bobdole4u2
Member
I went with the pinch clamps instead of the crimp rings. Every room in the house I renovate gets transitioned to PEX. Pinch clamps are less expensive for the clamps and the tool. Much easier than sweating copper, and you can make radius bends with it.
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Jim greengo
Well-known member
I've used both,I'll stick with sweating copper myself.
bruincounselor
Well-known member
PEX is very quick to install. No joints in walls. Crimper is affordable of you look around. Copper looks nice and is more expensive.
mdog892001
Banned
It’s behind a wall most of the time. How nice does it have to look
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strutaeng
Well-known member
I did my entire 2,000 sq ft old ranch house with PEX because the copper had random pinhole leaks. This is under concrete slab. Neighbors had same problems, so i figured I wanted to stay away from copper.
I replaced the kitchen lines as phase 1, the restrooms as phase 2, and finally the main (subed to plumber). The plumber used cinch, but I had been using the crimp tool. It's true about the crimp tool access, but I thought it was more secure. Both methods are ASTM approved, so it probably doesn't matter.
I helped my BIL rerout his entire house also with PEX. He also did most of the work and hired a plumber for some parts. What i don't like is plumbers will use a 90 degree elbow instead of using a strap (if there's room) to bend the pipe into a 90. In my opinion it creates unnecessary fittings vs. continous pipe.
At my current home I added a kitchen island with PEX. I've got a big addition with a restroom that will be PEX.
Biggest advantages are continous roll of pipe and no torch!
Good luck!
I replaced the kitchen lines as phase 1, the restrooms as phase 2, and finally the main (subed to plumber). The plumber used cinch, but I had been using the crimp tool. It's true about the crimp tool access, but I thought it was more secure. Both methods are ASTM approved, so it probably doesn't matter.
I helped my BIL rerout his entire house also with PEX. He also did most of the work and hired a plumber for some parts. What i don't like is plumbers will use a 90 degree elbow instead of using a strap (if there's room) to bend the pipe into a 90. In my opinion it creates unnecessary fittings vs. continous pipe.
At my current home I added a kitchen island with PEX. I've got a big addition with a restroom that will be PEX.
Biggest advantages are continous roll of pipe and no torch!
Good luck!
ddawg16
Well-known member
I considered PEX for my 2-story addition....
But I didn't have that many continuous long runs.
And....I think the jury is still out on how long it lasts.....I'm just waiting for the news that something in it leaches out and causes cancer.
Not only are my water lines copper....my kitchen sinks are copper.....and I gotta tell ya....NOTHING sticks to those sinks. To say they are easy to clean is an understatement.
Hence...I like the fact my water flows through copper lines.....
But I didn't have that many continuous long runs.
And....I think the jury is still out on how long it lasts.....I'm just waiting for the news that something in it leaches out and causes cancer.
Not only are my water lines copper....my kitchen sinks are copper.....and I gotta tell ya....NOTHING sticks to those sinks. To say they are easy to clean is an understatement.
Hence...I like the fact my water flows through copper lines.....
Pex tubing is easy to run, I’ve noticed a lot of plumbers in my area staying away from the big rolls and sticking with the 10’ lengths. They claim that unrolling the pex and fighting with the roll isn’t worth the time to them. I’ve done it both ways and I think it depends on personal opinion.
frank001
Well-known member
I've used both. PEX is definitely faster. In renovating my upstairs bath I changed the layout and moved the fixtures around. I used PEX because I was able to run across the bathroom between the floor joists and the existing waste lines easily. Using copper I would have had a bunch of elbows and a difficult routing with the waste pipes in the way.
One thing about PEX is if it's exposed in a crawl space, rodents can chew through it.
I use whichever seems best for the project at hand.
One thing about PEX is if it's exposed in a crawl space, rodents can chew through it.
I use whichever seems best for the project at hand.
bobdole4u2
Member
Drug addicts wont rip your house up for PEX
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Jim greengo
Well-known member
Or cpvc.
Pruittx2
Well-known member
Pex for sure,,, and Shark Bite connectors and fittings!!! Those are great
jjgrappler
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2017
- Messages
- 69
Unless its buried behind a wall.
6768rogues
Banned
I used to use copper but now all I use is PEX. A ten foot length of copper is over $12 and a hundred foot roll of PEX is $26. PEX bends and uses fewer fittings. PEX can withstand freezing better than copper. PEX is quiet and does not creak like copper. PEX is unaffected by acidic water. PEX does not require hot work, so there is no fire risk. PEX does not sweat as much as copper. I use copper crimp rings and a long handled crimper. By thinking ahead I never get into a situation where I cannot crimp something because the crimper will not fit.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
YOU ARE GOING TO DIE !
But probably not from the lead leaching out of the solder in those copper joints
![/QUOTE]theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Don't bet on that ! At my son's house, we choose to route the water lines the "long way around" assuming we could make the bends in the PEX. NOPE ! Wound up with a BUNCH of 90s !
Anyone buying a coil of PEX, I hope you have warm/hot weather and a place to unwind that coil in the sun. If not, fighting the "natural" bend from being coiled is a ***** !
I made plenty of 90 degree wall bends with my coil PEX A. no 90 fittings needed at all.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
At the time, I could not find the PEX metal corner support brackets. Those probably would have worked.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
PEX A is easier to bend (not that you can make tighter bends) and has no memory. PEX A cost A LOT MORE $$$$ !
acer66
Well-known member
walta
Well-known member
If it is a small job match what you have.
Get one of your ½ inch PEX fitting and a ½ inch drill bit if the bit will not fit inside the fitting you need to up size your pipes. This varies from one PEX brand fitting / system to the next.
Only after my system was installed did I understand “1/2” PEX fittings restrict the flow! The “1/2” pipe has in inside diameter of 15/16 and the fitting are a touch over 5/16 ID. The “3/4” inch fitting are just over ½ inch ID.
My “1/2” PEX with 5/16 fittings work ok for 1 sinks or toilet but not for hose bibs and showers. If I had it to do over again I would require all pipes be one size larger than normal. Going from “3/4” PEX to frost proof hose bib you need to be sure not to use any “1/2” PEX fittings this will require some out of the box thinking.
Walta
Get one of your ½ inch PEX fitting and a ½ inch drill bit if the bit will not fit inside the fitting you need to up size your pipes. This varies from one PEX brand fitting / system to the next.
Only after my system was installed did I understand “1/2” PEX fittings restrict the flow! The “1/2” pipe has in inside diameter of 15/16 and the fitting are a touch over 5/16 ID. The “3/4” inch fitting are just over ½ inch ID.
My “1/2” PEX with 5/16 fittings work ok for 1 sinks or toilet but not for hose bibs and showers. If I had it to do over again I would require all pipes be one size larger than normal. Going from “3/4” PEX to frost proof hose bib you need to be sure not to use any “1/2” PEX fittings this will require some out of the box thinking.
Walta
jeff_gates
Well-known member
Also:
PEX A, B, or C
don't use "C"
A is very flexible but may leave a plastic taste in your water.
B is stiffer but no plastic flavor, which is what I used.
PEX A, B, or C
don't use "C"
A is very flexible but may leave a plastic taste in your water.
B is stiffer but no plastic flavor, which is what I used.
Dagny
Well-known member
I believe type A is best quality product.used with the expandable fittings. It is more expensive however. Whatever you do to pex it always wants to return to it's original shape if you crimp it it spends it whole live trying to loosen if you expand it it tries to tighten.
I have used coiled Pex, straight 10 foot, fittings, plastic benders...but I always use pinch clamps - I think for the DIY person they are the better option. And yes you have to plan ahead if you're getting into a tight area but never had a connection I couldn't make. The stuff is fast and if you do make a mistake, easy to fix. I sweated copper for 30+ years and if I never have to again, I'll never miss it.
also expand flex doesn't choke down the diameter every time you have a fitting.
you also cannot setup an expansion joint without actually doing the joint for real. This prevents "mis crimps" or just flat out forgetting to crimp one.
I use the Uponor pex and have the Milwaukee M12 expander in 1/2, 3/4 and 1". I gave away my manual expander set as you have to be Godzilla in heat or right over top of the tool to do it manually. Use all of the long radius 90* corner support brackets that you can to avoid fittings. My biggest issue with pex whether crimp or expanded is the "bushing effect" of the fittings. The id of 1/2" fittings is about 5/16". You get sloppy with lay-out and it can affect pressure. I will spend the money for PexA every time. I guess it doesn't make a lot of difference on domestic water, but if you run a radiant system without the 02 barrier you have to use a HX between your boiler and the radiant. Failure to do so can take a nice wall hung boiler and turn it into junk in two seasons or less.
Dick in Wisconsin
Well-known member
I recently did a significant amount of remodeling and plumbing in a house built in 1955 with cast iron waste lines, lead joint in the waste lines, some galvanized waste lines, and copper. Gut reno of the main bath, creating lines for a water softener, and fixing a cast iron waste line from the kitchen to the outside that was leaking.
I negotiated the plumbing deal with a fourth generation plumber. His fifth generation son did some of the work. I asked if they were going to use copper or PEX. The fourth generation guy just stared at me and finally said, "If you want us to, we can. Some of it will be copper because all of it is copper now, but not very much of it. Copper materials are much more expensive and much more labor intensive. Its your decision."
I went with PEX of course. PVC was to waste lines versus cast iron and molten leaded joints, PEX is to copper and sweated joints.
I negotiated the plumbing deal with a fourth generation plumber. His fifth generation son did some of the work. I asked if they were going to use copper or PEX. The fourth generation guy just stared at me and finally said, "If you want us to, we can. Some of it will be copper because all of it is copper now, but not very much of it. Copper materials are much more expensive and much more labor intensive. Its your decision."
I went with PEX of course. PVC was to waste lines versus cast iron and molten leaded joints, PEX is to copper and sweated joints.
BadgerBoilerMN
Well-known member
LOL. Stay away from those guys. Radiant floors are continuous, no fittings. PEX in the roll with an uncoiler. Don't forget the oxygen barrier.
Copper hasn't been used in radiant "floors since the 50's. I used polybutylene in the 80's, now PEX is it. Fast, clean, easy and inert. It doesn't like petrochemicals, but once the slap it's all good.
It is very hard to control the temperature of a copper system and as noted by others, the copper will react with concrete in negative ways.
1/2" barrier PEX will heat any building and some snow-melting systems. I have 12 thousand feet in my last custom house 6000' living and 3500' of driveway.
Copper hasn't been used in radiant "floors since the 50's. I used polybutylene in the 80's, now PEX is it. Fast, clean, easy and inert. It doesn't like petrochemicals, but once the slap it's all good.
It is very hard to control the temperature of a copper system and as noted by others, the copper will react with concrete in negative ways.
1/2" barrier PEX will heat any building and some snow-melting systems. I have 12 thousand feet in my last custom house 6000' living and 3500' of driveway.
I'm using PEX A in my shop, got the Milwaukee tool, makes it very easy. But I worry about the hot water side. Wouldn't the heat weaken the joints? How far downstream is it OK to use PEX from the water heater? I like my hot water about a notch down from scalding.
rlitman
Well-known member
The water circulating in a boiler is quite a bit hotter than what your water heater puts out, and PEX handles it just fine.
75gmck25
Well-known member
I used PEX B and a crimper for my water lines, and also used oxygen barrier PEX for my radiator system.
The radiator PEX connections are all visible on the PEX manifold in my utility room, and I have not seen any evidence of deterioration from the 135 degree temp of the boiler. I left about 4-5 feet of iron pipe connected to the boiler, and then connected stainless steel PEX manifolds to the iron pipe using short copper 1" pipe. I had to get brass fittings designed for connecting iron to copper, but it was otherwise very easy.
Using PEX manifolds makes it really easy to figure out what is going on with the boiler and radiators. There are small temp gauges on the in/out side of each manifold so you can see the temp of water in and water out of the radiators. Each 1/2" PEX connection for a radiator has a flow meter and a flow control that you can adjust if you want to limit the flow to a specific zone. The manifolds I uses were similar to these https://www.pexsuperstore.com/pex-m...steel-radiant-pex-manifold-with-adapters.html .
FYI - I was connecting a boiler in the basement to radiators in floors above, so I installed the manifolds upside down to make it easier to connect to the radiators. All the flow meters and controls still work fine.
Bruce
The radiator PEX connections are all visible on the PEX manifold in my utility room, and I have not seen any evidence of deterioration from the 135 degree temp of the boiler. I left about 4-5 feet of iron pipe connected to the boiler, and then connected stainless steel PEX manifolds to the iron pipe using short copper 1" pipe. I had to get brass fittings designed for connecting iron to copper, but it was otherwise very easy.
Using PEX manifolds makes it really easy to figure out what is going on with the boiler and radiators. There are small temp gauges on the in/out side of each manifold so you can see the temp of water in and water out of the radiators. Each 1/2" PEX connection for a radiator has a flow meter and a flow control that you can adjust if you want to limit the flow to a specific zone. The manifolds I uses were similar to these https://www.pexsuperstore.com/pex-m...steel-radiant-pex-manifold-with-adapters.html .
FYI - I was connecting a boiler in the basement to radiators in floors above, so I installed the manifolds upside down to make it easier to connect to the radiators. All the flow meters and controls still work fine.
Bruce
59 wagon man
Well-known member
not true had a 5 story building which I had just installed the kitchen cast iron stack came back Monday it was gone. they will steal anything
b-boy
Well-known member
I had some plumbing done when I upgraded my kitchen. They told me that most most plumbers today use pex in residential installations. If I really wanted copper, I could have it, but be prepared for a severe sticker shock. Materials and labor would go way up. I was already shocked by the price for the pex, so I went with the pex.
After that, I did my basement bathroom and laundry room with all pex. Great stuff to work with. Very easy to install. I just had to sweat a few brass fittings to transition from the existing copper. Only problem I had was a cheap crimping tool. It literally fell apart in my hands after about a year. I was right in the middle of hooking up my bathroom and had all the water in the house shut off. I had to run out and grab another tool. I upgraded to a better quality tool. I went back and re-crimped all my connections using the new tool just in case.
I'm in the process of running water in my pole barn. I'm going 100% pex. You can't beat the ease of use and the price.
My advice, go pex and get quality tools.
After that, I did my basement bathroom and laundry room with all pex. Great stuff to work with. Very easy to install. I just had to sweat a few brass fittings to transition from the existing copper. Only problem I had was a cheap crimping tool. It literally fell apart in my hands after about a year. I was right in the middle of hooking up my bathroom and had all the water in the house shut off. I had to run out and grab another tool. I upgraded to a better quality tool. I went back and re-crimped all my connections using the new tool just in case.
I'm in the process of running water in my pole barn. I'm going 100% pex. You can't beat the ease of use and the price.
My advice, go pex and get quality tools.
Crazyjake8493
Well-known member
I'm in the process of replumbing our house in PEX to get rid of the rusted and leaking galvanized pipe through most of it. I'm using cinch clamps, the tool was about $35 and will do 1/2", 3/4", or 1" and easy to use. Pex bends and installs easily and quicker than copper. Easy to bend a 90 or offset and save time and money on fittings.
If you have long straight runs I recommend getting some 10ft or 20ft sticks, and use a coil for your shorter runs or bends.
If you have long straight runs I recommend getting some 10ft or 20ft sticks, and use a coil for your shorter runs or bends.
rlitman
Well-known member
PEX has the same nominal ODs as CTS, so tubular insulation and escutcheon plates (among other things) made for copper will fit PEX.