PEX or PVC

[mdog892001]

Ok plumbers.
Iv been kicking around the idea of replacing my plumbing this spring. I have old not to well installed copper in my home. I would like to use pex because it’s fast and cheap in the long run. Every one I talk to says to use pvc
What’s your take on this?


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[EOC_Jason]

PEX.... If you are in Ohio then PEX is much more tolerant of the cold and will expand instead of breaking if the water freezes...

PVC if the water freezes in those lines you will have a huge mess.

 

[GMCGarage]

PVC is not for supply. CPVC is, and is stronger. PEX is superior to both.

 

[sberry]

I did the last house in cpvc, I did it to use up some stuff I had that would have sit in storage. If I was starting over it would be the most modern pex.
I saw a new house plumbed with it the other day, I think the guy missed the point. He used a gob of fittings, all hidden and up in joists. Ain't no way I would have simply ran the hose, skipped all that stuff.
In many cases would skip the branch setup and simply do home runs.

 

[rlitman]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What's wrong with the copper you have?

PVC (which I wouldn't recommend) and copper work similarly, in that they use a lot of connections all over the place.

PEX requires a different mindset. You need to think manifolds, and home runs. If you can work around that, then PEX is the best choice.

 

[Alchymist]

I did the last house in cpvc, I did it to use up some stuff I had that would have sit in storage. If I was starting over it would be the most modern pex.
I saw a new house plumbed with it the other day, I think the guy missed the point. He used a gob of fittings, all hidden and up in joists. Ain't no way I would have simply ran the hose, skipped all that stuff.
In many cases would skip the branch setup and simply do home runs.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What's wrong with the copper you have?

PVC (which I wouldn't recommend) and copper work similarly, in that they use a lot of connections all over the place.

PEX requires a different mindset. You need to think manifolds, and home runs. If you can work around that, then PEX is the best choice.

Pretty much sums it up. Tubing itself is fairly inexpensive, making the home run idea attractive. And it can be snaked into a lot of places that would require joints with cpvc or copper, not a good thing in enclosed walls and ceilings.

 

[d300]

One more vote for PEX. Plenty of suppliers on ebay.

 

[mike93lx]

Cpvc is simple, cheap, and doesn't require any special tools.

PEX connectors are expensive, can restrict flow and requirr special tools, albeit some crimpers aren't too expensive.

PEX also grows significantly when heated and can be noisy if you don't mount/hang it properly.

I recently had some plumbing replaced in my house and the plumber went with CPVC. No regrets here.

 

[creativecars]

PEX!!
The furnace went out on a renovation property about a week ago at the time of the frigged cold. The PEX was fine. The pvc/cpvc had to be replaced and some old metal too. PEX easy is and nice to work with as long as you use the metal fittings. They make some in plastic... I would not use plastic.

 

[mdog892001]

It’s old. Brittle. Hung like a monkey did it. And leaking in a few spots. I love the “home run” idea. tools would be cheap my dad has them. And I want to catch up with the rest of the world. 1930 on the outside, 2018 on the inside.


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[sberry]

I agree, tubing is cheap. There are some really good data charts on performance for it that are well worth reading. 1 great thing is a chart for 60 ft as well as 100 which is closer to most circuits. It also explains some misconceptions about branch and T, some on velocity, about home runs for single use. It also talks about hot water and delivery speed and economy.

 

[acer66]

By code I had to run pvc from the well to the pressure tank,
everything else is pex besides a few feet of copper.
Wish I could have done pex instead of the pvc because of the danger of freezing.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

PEX for supply, PVC for drain.

 

[Alchymist]

PEX for supply, PVC for drain.

Never heard of anyone using pex for drains?

 

[chaosracing]

PEX, very easy to work with and easy to maneuver around obsticals.

 

[EOC_Jason]

When I was Lowes the other week, they had a ton of PEX fittings on a clearance cart in the plumbing area... Might check your local store and could save some $$$...

 

[mdog892001]

[emoji106] thanks guys a lot of useful advice keep it coming.


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[GMCGarage]

Never heard of anyone using pex for drains?

I havent either. Whats the biggest diameter you can get? And really why would you want to use it for drains?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Our old house needs replumbed, which I had planned to start on over the Winter until I got into this utility room remodel.

My plan is to replace all the old **** with PEX. I have copper, soft copper, CPVC, galvanized, black pipe and lead pipe. It's a plumbing circus in my cellar.

My vote for PEX.

 

[rlitman]

Our old house needs replumbed, which I had planned to start on over the Winter until I got into this utility room remodel.

My plan is to replace all the old **** with PEX. I have copper, soft copper, CPVC, galvanized, black pipe and lead pipe. It's a plumbing circus in my cellar.

My vote for PEX.

This sort of circus is kind of why I asked the questions I asked above.

PEX is ideal for a new clean install. And it does make for easy repairs, but it's weakness is mostly in the connections. Both literal weakness, and cost.

If you're up for a complete re-do (and you did use the word "all"), then I totally agree that PEX is the current way to go. Though you might be able to avoid replacing old but still good stub-outs, with careful planning.

If you're doing a small repair, it's usually easier (and often better) to use whatever is already there.

Also, remember that 1/2" copper has almost the same ID as 3/4" PEX. That difference in wall thickness can have some flow ramifications in a branched design (i.e. repair of an old system). With home runs, the lack of fittings and the fact that two appliances won't share a single line, this issue doesn't come into play.

 

[NUTTSGT]

This sort of circus is kind of why I asked the questions I asked above.

PEX is ideal for a new clean install. And it does make for easy repairs, but it's weakness is mostly in the connections. Both literal weakness, and cost.

If you're up for a complete re-do (and you did use the word "all"), then I totally agree that PEX is the current way to go. Though you might be able to avoid replacing old but still good stub-outs, with careful planning.

If you're doing a small repair, it's usually easier (and often better) to use whatever is already there.

Also, remember that 1/2" copper has almost the same ID as 3/4" PEX. That difference in wall thickness can have some flow ramifications in a branched design (i.e. repair of an old system). With home runs, the lack of fittings and the fact that two appliances won't share a single line, this issue doesn't come into play.

Well said. I figure I can get it all ran and make all the connections at a later date, all the same day. Running the supply lines as I have time or as funds allow. Once it's done and swapped over, I can cut out all the old ****.

 

[chaosracing]

Also, remember that 1/2" copper has almost the same ID as 3/4" PEX. That difference in wall thickness can have some flow ramifications in a branched design (i.e. repair of an old system). With home runs, the lack of fittings and the fact that two appliances won't share a single line, this issue doesn't come into play.

Even though the pex has a smaller inside Dia, it will get more flow in the long run. Everytime water has to go through a fitting (90, 45, etc) its flow is reduced. Add that up over a long run and that adds up, especially if the person making the connections did not properly prepare the pipe after cutting. With PEX you are pretty much eliminating the fittings since you can snake it through walls and floors like electric wire without the need of fittings.

The other benefit of PEX is corrosion resistance and staining. Where I live we have acidic water. I run through a water softener and acid neutralizer, but I still get staining from the copper pipes. If I did not have to rip apart walls and ceilings, I would replace everything with PEX and be done with it.

 

[fourjeepin]

My place had copper, cpvc, and polybutylene. I replaced the PB with pex after months of trying to decide which to use and I am so glad I did. Now I want to replace the cpvc!

 

[woodvice]

I used the Uponor/Wirsbo PEX system a lot on my last job. With this approach, the tubing and a sleeve are expanded using an expansion tool. The expanded tube is slipped over the barbed fitting. The tubing and sleeve quickly shrink back and form a water tight seal on the barb. With this system you must use the right tubing (PEX-a) and the fittings that are designed for the Uponor system. With this system you can get reliable connections in close quarters very quickly. I used the Milwaukee PEX expansion tool. I got most of my supplies locally from a Consolidated Supply branch or on-line from SupplyHouse.com.

If I were to replumb a house again, I would use PEX.

John

 

[moparfreak]

Yep, PEX all the way. When I did the addition on my house, remodeling the kitchen, adding a bathroom and shop, I redid that entire corner of the house into PEX, using a manifold and homeruns. It really was slick. A bit of investment in the tools but not too much, and learn a few lessons along the way, but really the best choice out there right now for supply lines. A few points, echoing what's already been said:

1) I found menards to be the cheapest big box store around for hardware, but even cheaper yet was supplyhouse.com, if you can figure out generally what you need and pre-order from them, then rely on the big box stores for odds and ends only, it will save you in the long run. I also got my manifold from these guys.

2) Don't use the plastic fittings. Use the brass only. If for some reason there's an overcrimping situation or possibly too much strain put on the connection point, you could spring a crack in the plastic fittings or barbs that won't get noticed till later on.

3) I use the SS cinch rings and they work well, but are pretty difficult to remove if you need to, but have heard a lot of good things about the uponor. Copper compression rings are good too. Pick one style at the get-go, then you are committed.

4) Home runs help but consider upsizing if you think your appliance really will gobble up lots of water, as the thicker wall means a smaller ID for a given size. For bathrooms fixtures such as shower or bathrub I really would go up to 3/4" minimum.

5) PEX needs to be secured every couple feet into place otherwise it can start to develop its own memory and try to move itself, especially as fixtures are open and closed. I have seen a number of the clamps that I used to secure it to joists simply fail over time. I used the plastic clamps w/ single mounting point, and I would not recommend using those, they'll snap eventually & let the tube loose to dangle. The Tube Talons is what they're called, I'd avoid them:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-PXTT050-Tube-Talon-for-1-2-PEX-Tubing-Bag-of-100

You should use a two-mount style to relieve the stress on the clamp, such as this one out of the plastic conduit aisle at lowe's:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-25-Pack-1-2-in-PVC-Clamps/1100345

Good luck!

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

PEX for sure. Cpvc is old tech and not in a good way. Hot supply’s are notorious for leaking over time.

 

[Bob Hall]

Another vote for PEX. For all the reasons mentioned above and one more that my son and I ran into recently. In an old house with frozen and split copper we simply couldn't get to the damage to fix it and any pipe requiring fittings would have given us the same problem. We used the PEX and just shoved it through the tight crawl space and some curves with no (not much) problem. Used Shark bites to join it to existing copper and a very few PEX fittings. Sharkbites are very expensive but they pay you back in saved time. I don't think the regular PEX fittings are all that expensive but that's just me. I bought all the tools years ago so that pain is long gone.

 

[madison069]

What if you're running a supply line to a detached garage? Garage is 50' away from the water supply and the pipe will be ran underground.

 

[Plump]

What if you're running a supply line to a detached garage? Garage is 50' away from the water supply and the pipe will be ran underground.

Exactly what I did with PEX. SUPER easy just make sure to run the stub-outs up to the house and garage with galvanized or something similar since PEX is not rated to be exposed.

I drain my line every year as to avoid freezing since the stub-outs are outside. My line is about 2.5 feet down which isn't code for frost protection in my area. That's why I used PEX and haven't regretted it at all.

 

[coljar]

All the copper in my house is good and I've sweat a mile of copper at work, and I enjoy sweating copper. With that said, I started using Pex in my rentals and last spring, I done the whole garage plumbing in Pex. It's great stuff in my book.

By the way, I ran it in conduit to my detached garage from the house.

 

[DieselSJ]

Another vote for PEX. I reworked the entire house in less than 2 days. Of course I had the benefit of openings in a few walls thanks to a kitchen remodel, but the overall process was super easy. I also used the Wirsbo setup that expands the tubing over the fitting.

 

[chaosracing]

What if you're running a supply line to a detached garage? Garage is 50' away from the water supply and the pipe will be ran underground.

Run it in conduit under ground. If exposed, I would do copper rather than galvanized. Galvanized *****. Or you could also get the same black pipe they use for wells. Thats what we used for our barn at my parents place when we built that about 30 years ago. No problems with that. Might be able to find it on craigslist as well cheaper than PEX. Just use barbed fittings at each end, a little heat on the pipe and stainless steel clamps.

 

[MattT]

Used Shark bites to join it to existing copper and a very few PEX fittings. Sharkbites are very expensive but they pay you back in saved time. I don't think the regular PEX fittings are all that expensive but that's just me.

PEX>Sweat adaptors are a lot cheaper than push in "Sharkbites". And they eliminate the o-ring seals which are a likely failure point IMO.

 

[Lelandwelds]

PEX is so great I want to use it for airlines too. Not a Shark bite fan . I use the plain brass fittings from www.supplyhouse.com The Milwaukee expansion tool is awesome but the plain smooth ring works ok.

 

[bwringer]

I used the Uponor/Wirsbo PEX system a lot on my last job. With this approach, the tubing and a sleeve are expanded using an expansion tool. The expanded tube is slipped over the barbed fitting. The tubing and sleeve quickly shrink back and form a water tight seal on the barb. With this system you must use the right tubing (PEX-a) and the fittings that are designed for the Uponor system. With this system you can get reliable connections in close quarters very quickly. I used the Milwaukee PEX expansion tool. I got most of my supplies locally from a Consolidated Supply branch or on-line from SupplyHouse.com.

If I were to replumb a house again, I would use PEX.

John

The company that re-plumbed our offices (in a 100+ year old house) used this system, and the plumbers simply could not shut up about how much more reliable, simpler, and faster it made things. They said they had sometimes had issues with with the crimp ring connections, but the expansion system was dead simple and 100% reliable. They had cordless expansion tools that weren't cheap at all, but they paid for themselves very quickly.

When you see jaded pros get that excited about something, it's worth paying attention...

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Okay, I am sold on PEX for my spring project to convert a 2nd floor bedroom into a bath. So I "was" planning to open the wall and run copper from the cellar to the 2nd floor. Is it a good idea to drill into the wall cavity from the cellar, AND on the 2nd floor, then shove PEX through the wall? My question relates to the post in this thread that the PEX has to be anchored to something. My way will let it "dangle" in the wall cavity. That is what I need an opinion on.

Thanks guys,

.

 

[rlitman]

Is this an interior wall? You can't do that in an insulated wall.
It may squirm around a little. That's an issue if it rubs against nails or something abrasive.

 

[Firebrick43]

PVC and cpvc work harden over time due to pressure pulses. At work we have our RO water on CPVC (really little else we could use for RO) and at every machine is an automatic refill valve. The old ones are mechanical with floats and give no issues but most modern machines use a float/switch and a solenoid valve. The resulting water hammer results in replacing sections of feed pipes every 4 or 5 years.

Modern washing machines use solenoid valves and hammer badly mixing cold and hot water.

I also suggest the wirsbro/uponor propex system as well.

I have the Milwaukee m12 expander and it's great. Yes it's 400 dollars but you can easily get 325-350 selling on eBay after your done.

Other that a great foolproof system that is easier than crimping it has more flow as well. The ID of the fittings is nearly the same size as the tubing where crimp fittings are much smaller I'd as the OD has to be able to slide into the tube.

Even if you use crimp fittings use pex A tubing. It's stronger and much more resistant to kinks. Kinks can be worked out with a heat gun if they happen. Pex B or C must have the kinks cut out and a coupler installed.

 

[4x4_G30_Sportvan]

I use Pex-Al-Pel now after freezing cragcked my PVC & CPVC.
I use brass fittings and stainless cinch clamps.
Nice thing about the SS cinch clamps is you use the sime tool for all sizes tubing.

Bought my stuff off ebay, really cheap & no sales tax.

 

[johnnyradiant]

But if you use PVC you could throw an extra tee in the line and plumb it to your air compressor in case you need an airline to your bathroom - flush and blow.

When 'repairing' kinked PEX heat the area evenly until clear then let it cool slowly. When fishing PEX into tight places we sometimes heat the bend area a little bit especially if we'er working with anything larger than 1/2" So along with a Milwaukee expander of either M12 or M18 you can add an M18 heatgun to your kit.

Funny how Uponor can't shake the Wirsbo moniker after all these years. Maybe they should take the hint and change the name back to Wirsbo so everyone will call it Uponor.