pex vs copper

[59 wagon man]

i don't buy much of my supplies at hd but I needed 1 fitting and the supply house was getting ready to close . an interesting thing I saw was a brand new sharkbite display I believe with professional fittings and a 25 yr warranty sounds impressive till I walked over to the copper tubing where the warranty is printed right on the box and it says 50 yrs. now I admit that some aggressive water destroys copper but other then bad water explain to me why pex is better

 

[Farmall450]

Cheaper, no soldered joints to leak from homegamers, easier to cut and manipulate, faster to install, easily color coded...

 

[Norcal]

Copper is a time proven material, PEX has already been subjected to class action lawsuits, and I have never been given a satisfactory answer to what rodents can do to PEX, for those reasons and others I'll stick to time proven materials as retrofits are messy and expensive.

 

[Handyfarmer]

Pex, cost usaly lower, no flames to solder, ease of installation, can be pulled like electrical wire, looks like $hit even when done carefully,

Copper, expensive, take some skill, harder to work with most of the time, take longer, hard to snake through tight and difficult places, uselay looks better when done if care is used,

warranty wise, I doubt if you will get an warranty out of either company in 25 years,

 

[sberry]

I saw a plummas job the other day, the guy is so used to using all the fittings he miss the point you can run pex like a hose, skip a lot of stuff. Super easy to simply home run a lot of stuff.

 

[ddawg16]

That was a tough decision I had to make when I did the 2-story addition to my house.

But...I went copper.

There were some runs where PEX would have saved me a lot of time....but then again, time was what I had....more of it than money.

It wouldn't have saved any time when it comes to drilling holes in joists.

You buy it in long rolls. If you run out and need say 2-3'....well, you go buy another roll. Copper? I can buy short lengths....

 

[jd_1138]

I wouldn't want Pex and Sharkbites. I like copper and modern 1/4 turn valves.

 

[Jazz1]

My friend is Plumber, won’t use pep in his own home. Never used it myself although it’s quicker to install

 

[Pluribus]

Nobody breaks in & strips Pex out of your house to sell as scrap for drug money.

 

[RegeSullivan]

In addition to all the other positives listed it's more forgiving in freeze/thaw conditions. Copper has gotten so expensive you only see M and L copper these days and L is rarely used even where the pipe is supporting a valve or fixture. When I was a kid my dad, a plumber, would only use M for us kids to practice on or for Boy Scout plumbing merit badges.

I suspect pex is at least as good as a modern copper plumbing install.

Who in their right mind would go back to cast iron and copper waste lines??? One other thing to think about... in the 60's my dad replaced all the galvanized in my granddad's 1928 house with copper... and Grandad said "that will never last as long as steel"... but it was about the same cost at the time and faster/easier to install.


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[SGKent]

from a cost standpoint pex is quicker and cheaper. That said just wait 30 years when the dimensions change like lumber and other plastic things. Then working on existing will get harder. I have a special plastic main line that comes into the house. They used it because it lasts longer than copper did. It was installed in 1979. I should replace the gate valve crimped to it but no one around here has the crimp tools anymore to make changes to it except the water company. Different dimensions and tooling than current plastic and pex pipes. Ha Ha on me.

 

[samss]

I have never been given a satisfactory answer to what rodents can do to PEX

I can tell you what squirrels can do. PEX lines at a boat dock were their winter snack!!

 

[RegeSullivan]

Mice and rats chew through NM-b that start fires on rare occasion. The also chew holes in copper when they are thirsty enough. If we overbuild our dwellings in every aspect we couldn't afford them.

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[ClappedOutBport]

That was a tough decision I had to make when I did the 2-story addition to my house.

But...I went copper.

There were some runs where PEX would have saved me a lot of time....but then again, time was what I had....more of it than money.

It wouldn't have saved any time when it comes to drilling holes in joists.

You buy it in long rolls. If you run out and need say 2-3'....well, you go buy another roll. Copper? I can buy short lengths....

My local HD sells pex in 2ft and 10ft lengths.

Dad and I are currently replacing all the 60 y/o galvanized steel pipe in a house with pex. I love it. It's quick, fast, and I've never had a properly crimped joint leak.

The beauty of pex is that you don't have to run in straight lines. I had a short piece of copper running to a sink, it had 4 joints at least, and I would have needed another 3 fittings to splice the pex in. So I dumped the copper and ran one piece of pex with a nice long swoop in it. You can't treat it (IMO) like conventional plumbing, but you can use the flexibility to your advantage to greatly reduce the number of fittings required, especially near appliances with short little 2 and 3 inch jogs. I think it flavors the water less than copper.

from a cost standpoint pex is quicker and cheaper. That said just wait 30 years when the dimensions change like lumber and other plastic things. Then working on existing will get harder. I have a special plastic main line that comes into the house. They used it because it lasts longer than copper did. It was installed in 1979. I should replace the gate valve crimped to it but no one around here has the crimp tools anymore to make changes to it except the water company. Different dimensions and tooling than current plastic and pex pipes. Ha Ha on me.

I dissembled a Raytheon laser probably from the 60s. It had water cooled parts on it, and the plumbing was pex. The size was exactly the same as modern stuff, I salvaged the fittings and added to storage. I doubt it will change.

 

[s.a.steel]

Plumber of 30 years here. Pex is the way to go these days. I can refute just about any so called shortcomings that people insist on when it comes to Pex. We've put it in multi-million dollar high rise condos with no issues. You can get short lengths just like copper. If you're worried about critters, I suggest you take care of your critter problem, as they can damage many other building materials in your home as well. Aggressive water and erosion due to excess flow rates or improper solder joints are big problems when it comes to copper. That said, we use the proper fittings when it comes to Pex, not sharkbites. Sharkbites are for repairs only. I personally prefer the Upanor brand, but Rehau is fine as well. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mmb617]

I re-plumbed our entire house in copper not long after we moved in 40 years ago as it had all galvanized pipes which were so badly corroded water could barely flow through them. It took a long time but everything turned out fine and those pipes are still pretty much all in use.

However, A couple years ago I did a remodel on both our bathrooms and I used pex for the first time. I will never go back to copper.

 

[finn]

I have replaced a lot more copper lines because they froze than pex lines.

The cold water line to the toilet in my shop freezes someplace in the wall whenever the outside temp drops to the mid teens, or below. It thaws when it gets back up to the mid twenties (as long as the bathroom temp is above 55). Try that with copper. I would have a flood.

Gotta fix the issue someday. It’s on the list.

Meanwhile it can stay pretty far from the top as long as the pipe is pex.

 

[RegeSullivan]

Just for the record... there were and are (still active) a good number of class action law suits against copper pipe and fitting manufacturers.

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[theoldwizard1]

Cheaper, no soldered joints to leak from homegamers, easier to cut and manipulate, faster to install, easily color coded...

For pros the big win is labor !

PEX fittings are a killer ! I re-did a basement laundry which feed everything else in the house. It was very tight and my son wanted the pipes run along the perimeter instead of across the ceiling. Corners were too tight (although next time I think I will try those corner reinforcements and some hot water). Cost was probably comparable to copper with all the 90s we installed.


Pros - do you use crimps or expansion rings ?

 

[kbs2244]

Aggressive water?
Is that the PC term?
I have a condo with a now community wide soft water supply.
The counter guy at the plumbing supply house says he dies a whole house copper to pex re-plumb every weekend.
The copper springs leaks due to the softened water.

 

[billie]

explain to me why pex is better

PRICE. Copper is outrageously expensive.
PRICE. Labour, you can do 10 homes in Pex in the time it takes to do 1 in copper.

 

[billie]

I doubt if you will get an warranty out of either company in 25 years,

yep, just like PolyB and pine shakes, as soon as it creates a disaster the companies will disappear and so will the warranties. But I think Pex is a better product. And it sure is cost effective.

 

[dfiler2]

I've used a lot of both and never had a warranty claim on either. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to using sweated copper & fittings.

 

[langss]

I'm going to be needing a complete re-pipe including the main. The house has a raised foundation. There already has been some work done by the previous owners and its in copper. I'm leaning towards the pex, but like anything else how do you know your getting the good stuff and not just something that barely meets code. I'm doing this so I never have to deal with it again, so I don't mind spending a little more now. The water heater is almost 10yrs....replace it y/n ? bath fixtures I would replace, others....some are new, replace y/n ? Toilets were replaced when we bought the place in 05. Your thought.

 

[Flail]

I’ve now replaced 2 runs of continuous copper tubing that I’ve run thru pvc conduit under my slab because the copper walls corroded and leaked. It took longer to cut and pull the copper than to slip in and crimp the new Pex.

 

[MushCreek]

I plumbed our house with PEX. I used a home run system that would have been very expensive and time consuming in copper. There's a nice big manifold with clearly marked valves for every fixture in the house. The manifold system makes repairs and maintenance a snap, and prevents thermal shock when you're showering and someone flushes the toilet. Mice and subfreezing temperatures can't reach my plumbing. Time will tell how long it will last, but it should outlast me, which is all I care about.

 

[jetnow1]

I had to replace a piece of pex with a short copper riser where the pex went thru the floor to attach to a radiator as a rat chewed thru the pex trying to get upstairs from the basement. I have also had to replace a Fernco fitting that was chewed thru by a rat, I would still use both products, though not in a home that was in a high risk rat area such as near a river or in the ghetto. The fernco fitting home never had a problem till the house
next store was renovated.

 

[beech1948]

Last time I checked, about 6 months ago, not a single PEX supplier provides a certification that PEX is good with compressed air. Thats why I always use copper or iron.

If the suppliers will not explain the lack of tests for use with compressed air then I will not use it.

 

[Showkey]

Aggressive water?
Is that the PC term?
I have a condo with a now community wide soft water supply.
The counter guy at the plumbing supply house says he dies a whole house copper to pex re-plumb every weekend.
The copper springs leaks due to the softened water.

I suspect the leaks might be caused by acidic water ( ph level) not softened water. Internal Erosion is another issue.
In Florida and other areas copper in the slab or in sand are a known failure point......whole industry on redoing copper to pex. Whole house redo usually from the top down with no drywall ( or minimum drywall) work.

 

[acer66]

Pex is the new copper.

 

[kaymccampbell]

My house is plumbed in L copper, because it was the best thing available at the time. My air lines are copper, because I weld and make sparks, and I didn't want to go the iron pipe route again. I have one 20' piece of PEX in my house, that feeds a new hydrant I put in last year. One piece of PEX does the job of what would have been 22 fittings, 9 holes in finished drywall, and a lot of difficult reaches to solder. PEX won there. I'm sure it'll outlast me. I'm going to be extending my compressed air lines in the next year. I'll still be using L copper for that.

 

[fourjeepin]

Last time I checked, about 6 months ago, not a single PEX supplier provides a certification that PEX is good with compressed air. Thats why I always use copper or iron.

If the suppliers will not explain the lack of tests for use with compressed air then I will not use it.

Lots of people are using pex for airlines. I bought 100 ft last month to redo my shop but haven’t gotten to it yet.

 

[rlitman]

Last time I checked, about 6 months ago, not a single PEX supplier provides a certification that PEX is good with compressed air. Thats why I always use copper or iron.

If the suppliers will not explain the lack of tests for use with compressed air then I will not use it.

Then you haven't looked hard enough:
https://www.rehau.com/download/869008/pex-certifications-and-listings.pdf

Additionally, PEX-Al-PEX has always been certified for air.

Air in PEX has a few well understood issues. Oil can cause problems, as can UV, and PEX pressure resistance drops dramatically as temperature rises, so it should not be used near the tank outlet.

 

[MushCreek]

I'm gonna run PEX airlines in my shop, but I'll encase them in PVC for safety.

 

[beech1948]

Then you haven't looked hard enough:
https://www.rehau.com/download/869008/pex-certifications-and-listings.pdf

Additionally, PEX-Al-PEX has always been certified for air.

Air in PEX has a few well understood issues. Oil can cause problems, as can UV, and PEX pressure resistance drops dramatically as temperature rises, so it should not be used near the tank outlet.

>>Oh yes I have.

Your table of certs DOES NOT cover compressed air.

Plumbing OK, Water OK, but not air. Your table does not even mention compressed air at any time. This table is from Rehau who make this stuff so there should be reference to compressed air if it were certified by the suppliers.

I will contact Rehau this coming Monday just in case but there is no certification of compressed air visible in your table.<<<

 

[oltruckag]

The Rehau document references CSA B137.5, ASTM F876 & NSF standards testing, which all include a similar paragraph: (red highlight is mine)

"... The components covered by this specification are intended for use in, but not limited to, residential and commercial hot and cold potable water distribution systems or other applications such as reclaimed water, fire protection, municipal water service lines, radiant heating and cooling systems, hydronic distribution systems, snow and ice melting systems, geothermal ground loops, district heating, turf conditioning, compressed air distribution, and building services pipe."

I don't have the full standards to look up the testing parameters and pressure/temperature limits, but based on those documents it appears that PEX is tested for compressed air usage. The certification tables in the Rehau document is only referencing the test standards, and doesn't go into the testing of each medium. I may end up buying one to satisfy my own curiosity, it may be worth $50 just to prove/disprove.

I did note on one of the MFGs website that PEX should not be used for fuel gasses. Another argument against using it for compressed air is that it isn't approved for dry type sprinkler systems, but that is likely because no one has made the investment for UL testing in this application.

I'm getting ready to break ground on a new 40x80, and I'm strongly considering PEX for compressed air, but only where I can put it in the walls. UV exposure is what I'm most concerned with.

Tyson

 

[63spyder]

I use pex for air, works great. Did my whole house in copper, if I had it to do over I would of used pex with home runs.

 

[volvosrock]

Best stuff ever!


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[BigGarage]

I realize the thread is about copper vs. pex but does anyone have anything against cpvc? I've been using it for years and have never had a single problem in my own homes. Everything in my current home has been redone in cpvc except for the cold to the bathtub and the hot & cold to the kitchen sink. The 2nd floor is all redone as is everything in the basement & garage except for the galvanized line coming from the meter.

Doesn't pex also require a person to buy specialized tools that they'll only usually use one time? I'm not certain, that's why I ask.

Dennis

 

[Stuart in MN]

Last time I checked, about 6 months ago, not a single PEX supplier provides a certification that PEX is good with compressed air. Thats why I always use copper or iron.

If the suppliers will not explain the lack of tests for use with compressed air then I will not use it.

You're comparing apples and oranges, or in this case compressed gases and non-compressible fluids.