coldh2o
Well-known member
Best stuff ever!
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Well that looks familiar! Agreed, I've done a house, shop and cottage in Pex.
Never going back to copper.
pex vs copper
- Thread starter 59 wagon man
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Well that looks familiar! Agreed, I've done a house, shop and cottage in Pex.
Never going back to copper.
ClappedOutBport
Well-known member
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- Mar 30, 2016
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CPVC is fine IMO. Yes pex does require special tools.
Well that looks familiar! Agreed, I've done a house, shop and cottage in Pex.
Never going back to copper.
I don't understand the whole manifold system. Seems like a lot of extra work. My house has branch lines, it allowed 90% of the under floor plumbing to be replaced in one day, going from iron to pex. Maybe it's just me, but manifolds seem like a lot of wasted money and time.
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I would be totally comfortable with a pex as an air line. It doesn't shatter. If you've seen the failure mode, it pops a linehole or a short rip and bleeds itself down. Might scare you half to death, but... Hell, a lot safer than the PVC my dad has been using for 30 years with no issue.
I'm with you, however, I can see the benefits for the cold water, mainly for avoiding pressure drops when multiple branches are used at once and shutting off desired lines all at one location. But hot water is different. First, hot water usually isn't needed at several points simultaneously so pressure drop wouldn't be an issue. And unless you have a circulation system, it seems like you'll waste a lot of water vs a branch system before it gets hot at the point of use.
Also more things to fail/leak.
sberry
Banned
Branch and home run are often not correctly understood. When 2 things are used a branch and a home run are the same, when 1 is used the branch is better due to part of the system having larger pipe.
Home runs with smaller pipe are often better on hot as it can be smaller and faster to deliver hot. The manifold is really good, very simple, can stock 1 size cheaper pipe and fittings, can be turned off/on individually.
Maybe less fittings, a line can be ran directly to a fixture. Can often run it like a hose without additional fittings, no t, no elbows.
I have seen older plumbers when converting to pex still stuck on all the fittings when it would have been so simple to bend the hose. Really defeats the purpose.
1/2 is really cheap in a roll and they now make 3/8 for going to hot fixtures.
Home runs with smaller pipe are often better on hot as it can be smaller and faster to deliver hot. The manifold is really good, very simple, can stock 1 size cheaper pipe and fittings, can be turned off/on individually.
Maybe less fittings, a line can be ran directly to a fixture. Can often run it like a hose without additional fittings, no t, no elbows.
I have seen older plumbers when converting to pex still stuck on all the fittings when it would have been so simple to bend the hose. Really defeats the purpose.
1/2 is really cheap in a roll and they now make 3/8 for going to hot fixtures.
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rlitman
Well-known member
When I switched my house to PEX, I used 3/8 for a number of things. Yes, a smaller diameter means you get hot water faster with a low flow rate. That's helpful on a bathroom sink for example. Also, the 3/8" bend radius is tighter. That let me pull a 3/8" PEX to an upstairs toilet that would otherwise have had to branch off the shower.
The down side to 3/8" is that the parts aren't as readily available locally.
MushCreek
Well-known member
Obviously, you don't live in a household where your wife runs the dishwasher, clothes washer, or finds some other reason to use the hot water when you're in the shower. I love our manifold system.
rlitman
Well-known member
My wait time has decreased since I switched to a manifold, but how yours will be affected depends on a number of factors that may not be relevant to my experiences.
sberry
Banned
Manifold shortens the wait. The pipe is a size smaller.
rlitman
Well-known member
Maybe. Before my manifold, I had a pipe that ran to my downstairs bathroom, which then branched to the upstairs. If I used the hot water upstairs, the wait downstairs might only be a second. Knowing that, I was planning on putting in one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PKLZLSK/?tag=atomicindus08-20
which would make the wait both upstairs and downstairs negligible.
Now that I've switched to a manifold, I have a long 1/2" hot line feeding my upstairs bathroom, a 3/8" hot line feeding my downstairs bathroom sink, plus a 1/2" hot line feeding the downstairs shower. The wait for each is relatively short, BUT each one is run separately, so running one doesn't help you with the others.
b-boy
Well-known member
They also chew through rubber radiator hoses and mower belts. Ask me how I know that.
The little bastards will eat anything.
coldh2o
Well-known member
Depending on the system used, a crimper for rings or a tool to expand the PEX. I use the crimp ring system, $100 for the tool at Home Depot 10 years ago. And a pipe cutter, less than $20 or you can use hacksaw, sharp knife.
Copper = solder, flux, torch, pipe cutter, emery cloth...all "specialized" tools only used for plumbing, at least around my house.
If someone is only doing plumbing one time, I'd say PEX is probably cheaper. You can rent the tools, or buy then resell. Copper "tools" for the most part are consumables that can't be rented or resold.
ClappedOutBport
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I don't see how the pressure drop is any different. He has 3/4" coming in and 1/2" going to each fixture. I have 3/4" trunk, and 1/2" branches going to each or at most 2 fixtures. So far as I can tell, the washer on warm (hot and cold) has the most flow of any device, and it drop water pressure from 52 to 42 at the water heater. Since I think that's limited by the 3/4" main line, I don't think it would be any higher with a manifold system. That's still plenty of pressure for a sink or shower, etc. Any more usage and I'd need 1" from the street to the waterheater, then 3/4" cold and hot.