Phillips L-key: An overlooked tool option?

[KnurledNut]

I made a Phillips L-key today out of a double ended #2 bit.
I’ve seen a lot of tools over the years, but never this.
I do have double bent Z keys in PH/PZ/SL, which are pretty common.
The more I used my L-key, the more I realized the potential the little guy had.
Its extremely versatile in a very small and lightweight profile and the torque potential far exceeded my expectations.
If you have any experience with hex keys, you know how you can thumb twirl the short end? That works amazing with this.
Curious, I did a google search which only led me to a few short cheapo chinesium versions.
Which led me to wonder: Why doesn’t a high quality version exist?
This will find a permanent place in one of kits and I’ll probably make more.
Love this little thing.
1/4” hex shank w/ JIS pattern tips and 13mm Japanese style grooves.

 

[mikey03]

I think low profile half cut bit micro ratchets make this obsolete tbh

 

[Steve_P]

I have a few double L keys for slotted and phillips. I don't think I've ever used them. I could see the use in 1980, but today's bit ratchets are even shorter. Yes, you don't have the other straight end to twirl the screw out, but we all have screwdrivers to do that. And there aren't that many phillips screws used in inaccessible locations on modern automobiles. At least not what I drive.

So yes, it's cool, but for me is a solution looking for a problem. Which, I guess, is why no one sells them.

 

[dscheidt]

I've got a pair of them, or did have. they came with something, as the included assembly tools. (Despite that, they're actually well made.) The problem with them is you can't really put a lot of torque on a phillips bit, without substantial axial pressure, which is hard to do with an L key. you need to use two hands, and that makes them not any better than a screwdriver. I'd use a bit ratchet before I used one of these things, to be honest.

 

[RTM]

The problem with them is you can't really put a lot of torque on a phillips bit, without substantial axial pressure, which is hard to do with an L key.

Your trusty flat bladed screwdriver makes a fine lever for getting downward pressure by leveraging off the obstruction you are trying to work around. Works on the old style, as well as bit ratchets.

 

[KnurledNut]

A big advantage of this tool is its one piece and simple.
Same reason plain hex keys are still largely in use.
Sometimes less is more.

 

[Dave455]

A few manufacturers offer offset screwdrivers, which I think is what you refer to.

I have a few PB Swiss, which are very high quality, but higher profile than their slotted equivalents.


I’m also tending to the view that bit ratchets are generally the way to go. Unlike hex keys, Phillips drivers need a downforce to avoid camming out, and bit ratchets make this easier. Some are even shaped for a fingertip.

But ultimately, I can see the advantage of something that can be used like an L key. I’ve made up all manner of special tools over the years and all have been worthwhile.

 

[ToolPolisher]

I have tried in vain to use the above and the cam-out is undeniable.

Phillips require downward force to seat. Slotted, Hex(Allen) and torx so much less so.

 

[tarbellb]

Came in every damn Craftsman set of tools I got in the 90s
Must have 10 of these S shaped ones laying around

Everytime I tried using it resulted in fails and cursing

Grab a bit ratchet and move on

( I do like the L shaped in Bit holder, still looks like a fail tho)

 

[AndreaW]

I bought the Williams one thinking it would be handy, but honestly I always reach for a bit ratchet instead.

 

[KnurledNut]

micro ratchets make this obsolete

today's bit ratchets are even shorter

I'd use a bit ratchet

bit ratchets are generally the way to go

Grab a bit ratchet and move on

reach for a bit ratchet instead

This tool isn’t meant to replace a bit ratchet. I have plenty of those.
Each will do things the other won’t. Bit ratchets with a bit holder in the tail end of the handle won’t fit in certain recessed screw holes. Just one example.
My goal with this wasn’t to be as short as possible. I could have easily bent the tip much shorter than any bit ratchet height. I actually wanted some clearance on the short arm, because sometimes a bit ratchet with a standard 1” bit wont clear certain obstacles.
The application I made this for wouldnt allow a straight shot with a bit ratchet. The head was getting in the way.
Bit ratchets are typically reversible. This isn't. Again, sometimes less is more.
But the more important aspect is the long arm. I use a lot of 6” bits and after breaking loose a fastener, many times, I will pull the bit out and speed the remainder of the fastener out. Same with installation. For lower torque fasteners, this L-key allows for that and the final turn.
This tool is longer than most bit ratchets. It allows for a variety of handles on both long and short arms if needed.
Its lightweight. I would imagine it would be useful in a motorcycle kit.
There are no parts to lose or break. And its cheap. I have used this now on several screws and the JIS tip really bites in and doesnt cam out the way old Phillips Z-keys do. I used to hate those too. This tool could be made with ACR.
I understand all the pros of bit ratchets and they are great. This tool isn't meant to replace that.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[mikey03]

This tool isn’t meant to replace a bit ratchet. I have plenty of those.
Each will do things the other won’t. Bit ratchets with a bit holder in the tail end of the handle won’t fit in certain recessed screw holes. Just one example.

I’m always looking to learn so if you come across a fastener that this tool works on where a bit ratchet wouldn’t work please take a pic and post it to this thread even if it’s months or years for now I want to see what your talking about in case I come across something like that and then I can say that big brain guy on the internet was right

 

[KnurledNut]

Following up...
Lacking recommendations here, I kept searching.
I finally found a quality option: Vessel TD-61.
I had to have it shipped over from Japan. Excellent fit and finish.
Arigatou, Vessel!

 

[Bubba Fett]

As stated above: due to cam-out, it's basically useless, and low profile bit ratchets are more effective. Makes a decent paper weight, though.

 

[MovingAlong]

Be sure to take some pics when you use this. Curious as to the applications you might have for it.

 

[KnurledNut]

As stated above: due to cam-out, it's basically useless, and low profile bit ratchets are more effective. Makes a decent paper weight, though.

The application I made the tool for wouldn't allow room for a bit ratchet. Did you read the thread or just come here to bash?
I miss the old Garage Journal where folks were pleasant to be around and appreciated the time others took to share ideas.

 

[M635_Guy]

I wouldn't have minded having one when building the little USG service cart the other day (lots of 10mm nuts on a bolt held with phillips head)

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

That Vessel one looks like real quality! Great!

I have a BluePoint set ST50A (My snappy was really happy to get rid of them, err, sell them to me - they had been sitting in his van forever. ) And then two made in Germany by Athlet. The Blue Point set has PH 1 to 4. Athlet is PH 1 & 2. The BluePoint set is made in China - and in this instance - it shows. But they work if you need one.



Kind regards,
Olli

 

[Hohn]

I have tried in vain to use the above and the cam-out is undeniable.

Phillips require downward force to seat. Slotted, Hex(Allen) and torx so much less so.

I had some success with one installing a doorknob. But certainly the bit ratchet would work better.

 

[four.cycle]

finally found a quality option: Vessel TD-61.

begs the question: "why didn't they bend the other end too?

that one looks like it might actually work in tight quarters... the "Z" bend models don't always fit where you need them to (like behind doorknobs!)

everything you never wanted to know about "Phillips":

 

[PopcornSutton]

I've had a pair of double Ls for many years. I bet I could count the times I've used them on one hand, but when I did, I was glad the bit ends were made 90 degrees from the other end. Such a tight space, a quarter turn was all I could get, and that helped a lot.

 

[SwissMetric]

In most cases a miniature bit ratchet is a better option, and if there's more space a small 1/4" ratchet with the required socket, i,e, without bit adapter. E.g. the Stahlwille "K" series which are forged as single piece (not with a replaceable profile piece), they're way better than usual bits but quite expensive. The INHEX (Allen/INBUS) last extremely long though the TORX also end damaged at some point, I'm TORX tools serial killer even if I always use the right size. I ruin far less Phillips and POZIDRIV tools.

I nearly never use the discussed L- or S-shaped screwdrivers though admittingly the ones with a VERY low profile can be usefu, e.g. the PB 600 VSM sizes 2 to 7. The VSM (now Swissmem) issued a blade for slotted screws standard ages ago which is extremely popular in Switzerland while other countries mostly rely on the, IMO, inferior DIN/ISO geometry.
VSM sizes are defined by sizes from 00 to at least 9 while DIN/ISO are defined by the width and thickness, not a size number. The original idea was to make it easier when using countersunk screws and the blade tip is parallel, not conical and the profile makes it more robust than the way more widespread DIN/ISO geometry. There are explanations in the PB catalog.

Also the DIN/ISO ends more easily damaged than the VSM and the risk of injury is also somewhat increased.

BTW I would not recommend the Stahlwille 10546 and 10551, the (too?) hard plastic handle part is sort of bulky and those tools are also overpriced. They're made in Germany but I don't know if manfuactured internally.

I probably used the "S" screwdrivers mostly for other more or less acceptable purposes, mostly as levers. Overall I'd still recommend to own some cheap set.

 

[terrific]

I've used a 1" long bit jammed into a 1/4" box wrench with a little piece of rubber glove. I thought it would have been a little easier if the bit were shorter.
I looked up really stubby bits and a couple places do sell them.
VIM VHCP2 -- VIM actually sells a 77 piece set of half-cut bits (not really a great name, pretty sure they're 5/8"), but I don't have a need for it... VHC77.
MATCO RBP2B
SNAPON TMP82-2B

I never actually got around to purchasing any of them, because they're not really available anywhere and it wouldn't be used often anyway.
The Vessel looks nice. Very short!

 

[tarbellb]

What's the measurement (Phillips tip to od bend) of that new Vessel L key @KnurledNut

I bet we could sick the GJ hounds on a bit ratchet that is damn close or even shorter

Nice find, appreciate the updates

 

[KnurledNut]

What's the measurement (Phillips tip to od bend) of that new Vessel L key @KnurledNut

I bet we could sick the GJ hounds on a bit ratchet that is damn close or even shorter

Nice find, appreciate the updates

tarbellb, the height wasn't the only problem. I tried several bit ratchets first. The ratchet head body was simply too thick and getting in the way, and in this case was scratching the paint damaging a visible finished metal surface. Even the fixed bit low profile options wouldn't have worked. I made the tool to do the job as it was time sensitive.
Thanks for replying.

 

[mv213]

As stated above: due to cam-out, it's basically useless, and low profile bit ratchets are more effective. Makes a decent paper weight, though.

Besides cam out, there's the alignment issue. You have to be able to turn this thing 90 degrees to reset your grip. That's like a 4-tooth ratchet.

Before I had a bit ratchet I used one of these in several tight places. They ****. I no longer have one but I have several bit ratchets. So, not overlooked, just obsolete.

 

[KnurledNut]

Besides cam out, there's the alignment issue. You have to be able to turn this thing 90 degrees to reset your grip. That's like a 4-tooth ratchet.

Before I had a bit ratchet I used one of these in several tight places. They ****. I no longer have one but I have several bit ratchets. So, not overlooked, just obsolete.

I had 180° of room to swing. No issue there. Bit ratchet body was too thick.

 

[NHtoolguy]

Besides cam out, there's the alignment issue. You have to be able to turn this thing 90 degrees to reset your grip. That's like a 4-tooth ratchet.

Before I had a bit ratchet I used one of these in several tight places. They ****. I no longer have one but I have several bit ratchets. So, not overlooked, just obsolete.

A good compromise between the fixed offset screwdriver and the bit ratchet is the General Hardware 807 Series ratcheting screwdriver. The tooth count is coarse, but the overall height is short and they are reversible. They are available in slotted and Phillips styles. They have been handy the few times I've needed them.

 

[Bubba Fett]

The application I made the tool for wouldn't allow room for a bit ratchet. Did you read the thread or just come here to bash?
I miss the old Garage Journal where folks were pleasant to be around and appreciated the time others took to share ideas.

I was referring to regular the double-bend low profile screwdrivers, not your custom one. I should have been more specific. Apologies.

The ones with double-ends can get in their own way.