Phoenix Brake Bleeder Help

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hi Everyone

OK. I need some help here
Bought the Phoenix Max Pro Bleeder specifically for an upcoming Ranger clutch job.

After messing with it for HOURS and a couple of large bottles of fluid, I gave up and bled it old school with a friend.
My friend helping me watched the reservoir as I reverse pressurized the clutch hydraulic system, and he verified that the reservoir was filled without any bubbles from the bottom up.
We still had to give up from that method and bleed it old school, pump, pump, pump, pump, hold, crack the screw and then bleed out the bubbles.

Repeat, Repeat, Repeat.

This got the Ranger clutch bled. Works good too. LUK makes nice clutches.

Yes, I did review the movie CD that is correlated to the MaxPro bleeder, as well as the YouTube videos, but I am still lost as to why this isn't working well.

I also tried to reverse bleed the brakes on my 2003 F150
I did the whole process and honestly I can't tell the difference between the before and the after?

What am I doing wrong here?

Something that I am confused about is....
The burping procedure following the reverse feeding.
The instruction sheet and the video shows the operator pumping up 4-6 strokes of fluid in reverse, and then disconnecting the feed hose and allowing the fluid to dribble out to "burp" the system of air.

How does this work? Wouldn't additional dribbling bubbles introduce air back up into the system?

How could something which seems to be so simple be so difficult?
Can anyone whom owns this or knows how to use it chime in and tell me what I am doing wrong?

Adam

 

[ChevyEFI]

I'm not familiar with the Ranger slave cylinder or clutch bleeder. But:

In general, reverse bleeding doesn't accomplish anything better than standard pressure bleeding.

Secondly, a bleed valve is the highest point in the caliper or slave end of the system. Air comes out at the bleeder best. Air isn't going to be bled out working the system backwards without having to do extra work to accomplish it.

Third, a functioning master cylinder puts a LOT more pressure on the hydraulic fluid than a vaccuum bleeder. A vaccuum bleeder is fine for when one man needs to get things done however a helper on the pedal is going to more firmly move fluid and this often translates to better results.

With the Ranger clutch, get it full of fresh, clean fluid. Then, figure a way to crack the bleeder just enough that pressure at the pedal forces fluid out. No more. Attach a hose or rubber fitting of some sort to the bleeder. Route a hose from the bleeder up to the reservoir (without risking brake fluid on painted surfaces) and point the end down into the fluid in the reservoir. Have the helper gently pump the pedal for a few minutes. Slowly at first so fluid doesn't spray over things. Unless parts are bad or you have a leak, that will take care of any and all air. Close the bleeder and clean up shop.

If the F150 barely had air, you may not notice a difference.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

OK
SO what is the big deal about the Phoenix systems?
Why are they spoken of so highly?

Adam

 

[firebox40dash5]

I just tried ours the other day on a Miata slave cylinder. It similarly didn't work worth squat... I can't even get it to bleed, even with the bleeder almost totally unscrewed, if I build enough pressure to do anything, it blows the boot off the bleeder... even if I hold it on.

As for the dribbling, I gravity bleed stuff all the time. If I didn't get the system really dry, I'll stick a drain pan under it, put the brake fluid filler in the reservoir, crack the bleeder, and walk away for a while. Like Chevy said, the bleeder is (hopefully) at the highest point in the component, so air gathers there and comes out first. As long as you don't have the master cylinder moving, you shouldn't get an air bubble if there's still fluid dripping when you close the bleeder. Doesn't work nearly as well on clutches though, probably because there's much less fluid in the reservoir to provide natural pressure to the system.

 

[ChevyEFI]

OK
SO what is the big deal about the Phoenix systems?
Why are they spoken of so highly?

Adam

Raccoon factor. It's bright, in shiny packaging, and has advertising to make it look neat-o.

Let's compare:
A plastic bore cylinder with less leverage at the "pedal" and it's intended hookup works backwards of what ideally gets all the air out. (by routing fluid past a high point in the system)

Or

A metal bore cylinder with more leverage at the "pedal" and it's intended hookup works in a way that sends air to a high point in the sytem, leading to air removal.

It's not that it can't work. It's that using what you already have that already has the potential to work great is the way to go, in this man's opinion. FWIW, I NEVER use my mity-vac to bleed GM concentric slave cylinder clutch systems.

 

[SO/PW newbie]

check this out...

and this one is a bit more in depth and newer.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

I'll check out the video in the morning

Is there anyone here whom owns this tool and uses it?
Any real life feedback?

Racoon factor.... Funny
My sister had a word for that regarding girls whom wear a lot of makeup to the gym or to the bar ( really the same thing )
Said that men are attracted by sparkly things because they were simple and very visually driven

The advertising keeps talking about how this is the method and tool to use to get "The best pedal feeling ever"
Hummmmmm........... What is the best way to do this......

Adam

 

[MattPersman]

I bought one like 10 years ago and used it a handful of times, just found it in my basement this weekend. Not sure if I should take it to the shop because it just takes up room and not sure if I will ever use it

 

[Jagmandave]

I prefer a pressure bleeder for a one man operation, fluid goes in the top under pressure and floods the entire circuit, air goes out the bleeder screw like it's supposed to.

I tried a Mighty-vac once, didn't work for me either.

Watching those vids tells me you have to use a special procedure to get the Ranger clutch bled tho......

 

[BB70]

I was scammed by pheonix injector's tech guy, needed a part to repair mine, said he could help me out. I was happy that he could do that for me at no charge, so I purchased a master cyl bleed kit and a spare rebuild kit for the inj cylinder. Well when the order came in, there was no repair part, just the stuff I purchased. So I have a overpriced hunk of plastic and ran into another dishonest sales driven fucktard . John

p.s. many e mails and polite phone calls were made asking if the repair part was being shipped seperate or what is the delay .

 

[dsmnickk90]

I know some motorcycle brake and clutch systems say they have to be reverse bled

 

[BB70]

Sorry you felt scammed. I assure you I do not work on any commissions. If I can be of help to you with this tool, I would love help.

Thanks,
Kevin
888-749-7977

I went ahead and e-mailed Kevin today and I am very happy to say that my Pheonix Injector tool is going to be replaced!!! He even went the extra mile and asked if the adapter hoses, fluid jar, carry case ect. were ok .

I am truly blown away at this, as I had written off using this tool again unless I bought another. The thing that really bothered me is not having it handy to use as it really works,
the last time I used it was on a Saab 900 hyd clutch that would not bleed. 3 pumps with the tool hooked to the slave cyl and it was done.

Again, thank you Kevin for your proffesional and kind help in this matter.

Your humbled customer, John Schwartz.

 

[MattPersman]

I am gonna tray out my old ******* a slave cylinder later today and see if I can get new love for it

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Let us know what you get.....
Interested

Adam

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

I'm happy to see that Phoenix B.B. has a presence on our board
Welcome!

Adam