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PIC attached. Is temp wiring ok?

knipdm01

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Have a 30 amp 2 circuit. Uses 10 gauge wire 220 volts. Want to demo old panel, and relocate new. Temporarily I want to put a junction box at the existing panel location and run a feeder from my junction box to my new 125 amp panel. Can I do this? Will trench a new line in the spring when ground thaws. just want to get all my wiring done now and wall and ceiling put up soon. My total connected load is around 20 amps as long as I dont used a bunch of tools together. So it will get me by. Safe?

Pic attached.
 

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knipdm01

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Why not safe? The junction is enclosed, its only a 30 amp feeder so no different than running a dryer or stove circuit. The 125 amp panel breaker only acts as a disconnect. The main panel in the basement of my house has 30 amp protection and will be upgraded to 100amp once I run a new line. That's my thought process anyway. My biggest code violation (for a couple months) is maybe the junction and the temp feeder too my new panel? Thanks for the help!
 

Dan0myte

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Exposed wiring sitting on the ground is the main issue. Even if you say no one will be going near it, it's far too easy for a dog or something to stroll into your yard and start chewing away on it. Electrical codes are in place for a reason. Temporary or not, if it's not up to code it's not safe.
 

dipper

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Exposed wiring sitting on the ground is the main issue. Even if you say no one will be going near it, it's far too easy for a dog or something to stroll into your yard and start chewing away on it. Electrical codes are in place for a reason. Temporary or not, if it's not up to code it's not safe.

Where does the OP say anything about exposed wire on the ground?

I would think the original 30amp 10ga wire was an overhead run or an underground feed.
Keep the breaker feeding the new subpanel at 30amps until you run new wires and you should be okay temporarily. The old subpanel can be used as the junction box, just get some good wire nuts or split bolts to make you connections; and put the cover back on while you are running all your new feeds to the new panel.

You'll be running a new 4 wire feeder to the new panel correct? Check local codes on what you need for ground rods at the subpanel too.
 

Dan0myte

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Maybe I misread the post, sorry. I was under the asssumption that a new wire was run from the house to the garage and just laid on the ground to be trenched later this spring.

My original statement still stands however. Will it meet electrical codes? If not, it's not considered 'safe' regardless of whether it will work or not.
 

rodnok1

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Sure it will work, don't overload it like you said. Wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd do it.
 
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knipdm01

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Where does the OP say anything about exposed wire on the ground?

I would think the original 30amp 10ga wire was an overhead run or an underground feed.
Keep the breaker feeding the new subpanel at 30amps until you run new wires and you should be okay temporarily. The old subpanel can be used as the junction box, just get some good wire nuts or split bolts to make you connections; and put the cover back on while you are running all your new feeds to the new panel.

You'll be running a new 4 wire feeder to the new panel correct? Check local codes on what you need for ground rods at the subpanel too.

The original feeder is under ground and yes a new 4 wire feeder will be used. I am NOT or do I have any wire laying on the ground. The temporary line from the "junction" to the new panel will run in the attic.

Have to check to see if the original 10 gauge has 3 or 4 wires. Either way the future will be 4 wire. The original wire is most likely 3 wires (2 hots and a Neutral) Ill just tie the ground into the neutral for now.
 
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knipdm01

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In addition:

The temp 3 wire I got now will be BONDED tying in the neutral and ground. (Which is allowed by code as long as there is NO OTHER conducting material between the house and garage (ie.....data, wire, cable, gas)

The NEW 4 wire 100amp sized wire will NOT BE BONDED and the ground will run back to the main panel. A separate ground rod is not required because I fall under the "One branch circuit to a detached building"

SOUND CORRECT???? Thanks!
 
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knipdm01

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As of 2008 NEC changed the ground rod requirement. As long as you only have one branch circuit. My understanding is my ground at the house is sufficient. I don't have a ground rod now(at the garage)....maybe different per state?
 
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knipdm01

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Ok read this in another post....


Based on some quick searching, I believe that Alaska adopted the NEC 2008 edition as of June this year; which is bad news for your installation in terms of code-compliance. However I should note that your installation would have been allowed under the NEC 2005. So the question about safety is one of tiny percentages (allowed in May, not in June). Compliance with '08 code does provide a somewhat safer installation, but as-is yours certainly is not unsafe. Since there seems to be no code enforcement in your locality it's up to you.

I'll touch on the important points between '05 code and '08 code:

#2 aluminum used to be allowed for 100A subpanels under an interpreted wording of a code article. They have now explicitly changed the wording so that #2 aluminum is good for 90A to a subpanel.

Three-wire feeds (no ground) used to be allowed to an outbuilding provided that no other metal pathways like a water line or phone line were present. Now, four-wire feeds are mandatory, no exceptions.

The ground rods are required in either case, and they should be connected to the subpanel ground bar with #6 copper wire. When a three-wire feed is used, the neutral and ground bar must be bonded; when a four-wire feed is used, the neutral and ground bars must not be bonded.

The rating of the main breaker in the subpanel doesn't matter, because it is only acting as a building disconnect. The overcurrent protection is provided by the breaker in the meter/main panel which feeds this outbuilding.

All of the 120V receptacles in the garage should be GFCI protected, either by GFCI breaker or by GFCI receptacle with downstream "LOAD" protection wired. This also includes special-purpose outlets like garage door opener and lighting.
 

sberry

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If this wire is hooked in to a panel and larger than 20A it needs a rod. The term "sub panel" is widely used and I don't think code even uses it, this is really a service to a detached structure. There is another term that escapes me at the moment but its service fed from existing service, etc, you get the general idea though.
 
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knipdm01

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If this wire is hooked in to a panel and larger than 20A it needs a rod. The term "sub panel" is widely used and I don't think code even uses it, this is really a service to a detached structure. There is another term that escapes me at the moment but its service fed from existing service, etc, you get the general idea though.

Perfect thanks. I will drive a ground rod then....cant hurt anyways.
 

sberry

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Nope, wont hurt. One reason is lighting strikes, hopefully they carry thru to the rod vs returning to the main thru the wiring and secondly this tends to keep voltage potentials the same as the ground you are standing on.
 
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