Pin Hole Leaks in Pex?

[lbperry]

While my plumber was fixing the water leak I described in a separate thread, I asked him if he was using all Pex now and he said pretty much was. But he said something that surprised me. He said that he was starting to get more and more calls to fix pinhole leaks in old Pex installs. First I had heard of it. Have any of you guys heard of Pex problems?
Thanks

 

[btdobie]

I haven't heard of this before. Last year I replaced most of the galvanized plumbing in my house, and I thought about using Pex. However, I decided to go with copper because it has proven itself over years to be one of the lowest maintenance materials even if it is expensive. Also I just enjoy sweating pipes.

 

[Markfothebeast]

I use the red and blue pex. I had intentionally attempted to drive a screw through it in a stud and surprisingly the screw head broke off (with a Dewalt 20v impact) and never pierced through the Pex.

There are cheaper alternative unbranded Pex lines that are of lesser quality. I've removed these after another plumber used them.



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[southalabama]

Just did a google search.

Seems a class action is pending against NIBCO

 

[Markfothebeast]

Just did a google search.

Seems a class action is pending against NIBCO

Interesting. I'll have to keep my eye out for leaks. If there are tiny holes it must have been a manufacturing defect?

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[gottahaveit]

I just pulled out all the PEX I installed two years ago for pinhole leaks, my insurance company wouldn't rewrite my policy after some remodeling unless I was rid of all the galvanized and PVC pipe in the house. Funny thing is they didn't say anything about all the old lead drain pipes still in the original bathroom.
A buddy had issues with critters chewing holes in PEX tubing in his upstairs walls, he eventually ended up running it in conduit and doing away with a power ridge vent he found was letting critters in through chewed up screen.

 

[CSFJ]

There was an old class action suit years ago against the piping they were using prior to pex. Iirc it was a polybutyle pipe. I know that used to get pinholes. This is the first I've heard of the problem with pex.

 

[SARG]

The primary issue with the polybutle stuff ( used in mobile homes mostly ) was / is the fittings literally appear to "rot" away.

 

[PelicanPines]

In 2005 when I built my house... I went with 3/4" copper. The thicker variety... forgot the letter designation.

My neighbor built 2 years before me... they used thinner copper... has only had 1 issue.

My friend built about 8 years ago... pex... the good stuff... he has "faster" hot water because the pipes are 1/2" but has had about 3 issues with leaks.

If I were to build today... I would go with pex provided I knew it was the better quality pex and not the knock off

 

[btdobie]

In 2005 when I built my house... I went with 3/4" copper. The thicker variety... forgot the letter designation.

My neighbor built 2 years before me... they used thinner copper... has only had 1 issue.

My friend built about 8 years ago... pex... the good stuff... he has "faster" hot water because the pipes are 1/2" but has had about 3 issues with leaks.

If I were to build today... I would go with pex provided I knew it was the better quality pex and not the knock off

L copper is what you're probably referring to. I would limit Pex to areas where I can easily access it for repairs if I did use it. Copper will typically last a lifetime as long as it isn't below ground or subject to physical damage.

 

[rlitman]

There was an old class action suit years ago against the piping they were using prior to pex. Iirc it was a polybutyle pipe. I know that used to get pinholes. This is the first I've heard of the problem with pex.

PB was known for pinholes.

In PEX systems, I know that there were issues with dezincification of certain types of brass fittings that could cause pinholes. Perhaps that was the issue?

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Pex is heavily used in Europe since the 60's. And copper can get pinholes.

That being said, I will concur that copper is pretty trouble free from my experience.

 

[kbs2244]

In my somewhat limited experience, the only copper pin hole problems I have heard of were in conjunction with reverse osmossious systems.

Sometime you do not have a choice on the RO install.

At my FL place the entire town went RO system wide.
Re piping is a common thing.

 

[engineer2]

Does the suit include regular oxygen barrier or both types of NIBCO PEX?
My oxygen barrier PEX has been fine since 2003.

 

[JRC3]

Yep, low pH will eat brass fitting. In that case you use poly fittings.

Low pH and other water chemistry will eat copper too. So can improper grounding, burs left inside cut pipe, and flux pockets in fittings or un-wiped flux on the outsides of pipes.

Sometime you do not have a choice on the RO install.

Like what unless it's a whole house RO. But most of us don't have a need to RO toilet water. haha

Does the suit include regular oroxygen barrier or both types of NIBCO PEX?
My oxygen barrier PEX has been fine since 2003.

https://www.classaction.org/nibco-cpi-pex-plumbing

 

[86turbodsl]

mice love pex. something to be careful about now that everybody is using pex for lines...

 

[JRC3]

mice love pex. something to be careful about now that everybody is using pex for lines...

I wonder if they make some type of split slip-over metal wrap for inside walls and other needed areas. I wonder if something as simple as ordinary aluminum foil could be the answer. Not sure if that might cause condensation problems or something.


Or maybe this. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/612Dqw46vJL._SX342_.jpg

 

[Bart Leetch]

I wonder if they make some type of split slip-over metal wrap for inside walls and other needed areas. I wonder if something as simple as ordinary aluminum foil could be the answer. Not sure if that might cause condensation problems or something.


Or maybe this. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/612Dqw46vJL._SX342_.jpg

Use hardware cloth not as easy for critters to make holes through.

 

[Markfothebeast]

The only Nibco Pex leaks I've had were at a cinch clamp junction. The seal broke when I twisted the Pex tubing.

I'm not familar with other types of plumbing tubing but my neighbor has the transparent stuff entirely put together with quick connect fittings throught the entire house. Let's see how that holds up.

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[Pluribus]

mice love pex. something to be careful about now that everybody is using pex for lines...

Do they love the Pex itself, or are they just inadvertently chewing it at a wall/floor/framing penetration that they're trying to get through? I'm seriously considering Pex to replace the clusterf* of a PVC system it currently has, and I have lots of mice and other critters here.

 

[86turbodsl]

My understanding is its candy for them.

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[dadsEH]

Pin hole leaks in plastic pipes are often caused by foreign contamination in the wall of tube during manufacture. Inclusions the size of a grain of sand can work themselves out of the plastic and create a leak under pressure. Its all down to housekeeping during the extrusion process.
happens in radiator hoses too. Expansion / contraction with heat and pressure affects the wall structure.

 

[truckman5000]

Certain types of spray foam insulation, huge globs of glue, poorly supported fittings, Nibco pex, old poly, older brass fittings, steel cinch rings

 

[nadogail]

I have owned rentals with PEX piping, for 20 years, and have had no problems associated with the PEX.

 

[Bucko]

My buddy has been having issues with his PEX in a track-home he has. I think it is more due to a poor install than the PEX itself. He's had several leaks at the valves and one at a top plate where no strain relief was used and the line was kinked.

 

[slowtwitch73]

We have 30 yo in floor radiant .. besides the house burning down, problems with the pex is my biggest fear.

 

[CSRPenFab]

When we remodeled the master bath in our prior house, we tore it down to the studs. My contractor was surprised to find a pin nail clear through the shower hot water supply Pex. They fired the nail when installing closet shelving when the house was built 5 years prior, and they missed the adjacent stud. He figured the hot nail cauterized itself and sealed it up. It was under hot water pressure for quite a while with zero leaks! Damn lucky!

 

[Blackbyrd]

I keep having reoccurring leaks in mine, not at joints. Random pinholes form in sections of my hit water lines

 

[Sumboodie]

My buddy has been having issues with his PEX in a track-home he has. I think it is more due to a poor install than the PEX itself. He's had several leaks at the valves and one at a top plate where no strain relief was used and the line was kinked.

Tract home. Well, unless his house is really on tracks.

 

[Sumboodie]

When we remodeled the master bath in our prior house, we tore it down to the studs. My contractor was surprised to find a pin nail clear through the shower hot water supply Pex. They fired the nail when installing closet shelving when the house was built 5 years prior, and they missed the adjacent stud. He figured the hot nail cauterized itself and sealed it up. It was under hot water pressure for quite a while with zero leaks! Damn lucky!

Have seen it before where it only started leaking because the nail rusted through.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I keep having reoccurring leaks in mine, not at joints. Random pinholes form in sections of my hit water lines

Any particular brand?

 

[Firebrick43]

I keep having reoccurring leaks in mine, not at joints. Random pinholes form in sections of my hit water lines

If they used Pex B or C (normally with crimped fittings) there is a possibility it was kinked when unrolled/installed. On pex B and C you have to cut out the kinked area and splice. Pex A you can heat gently and work it out. It should (along with the brand name) be printed on the side of the pipe

 

[walta]

I think the PEX itself is unlikely to develop pin holes but its weakness is long term UV light exposure

Walta

 

[Mr_fixit]

I don't know if its pex or what. Maybe you can tell me....The plastic line from to the ice maker to the shut off that was installed in the early 2000's has developed small leaks, 3 of them . separated by about a month each. Most types of plastics degrade, dry rot, crack , etc, I don't know why pex should be immune...?

The 3 leaks showed up in the basement weeks after they started, they were so slow, they dripped onto the shelves in the basement, travelled along the horizontal part of the shelves and eventually appeared on the floor , under the shelves.

A friends house, built in the 70's with copper pipe, on well water , has developed a bunch of pinholes, only on the cold water pipes though... Copper has a limited life designed in, just like most things.

 

[Blackbyrd]

Any particular brand?

Wirsbo aquapex? House was built in 94 then renovated in 06

 

[MOwens]

The plumbers in my small town have made a fortune replacing the service lines around town. My parents purchased their 1907 built house in 1979. At that time dad had the service line replaced with L or hard copper 3/4” line. Flash forward to the early 2000s and after replacing many pin hole leaks in the copper throughout the house the main service line developed a big leak fairly close to the shutoff. Part of yard had collapsed is the only way we new because it was before the meter in the house. Around 1990 the town put in a water treatment plant that somehow puts an ion charge in the piping and that charge attacks the copper piping. We now have a 1” pex al pex serv line and haven’t had to replace any of the left over copper in the house. Also the new service line is one continuous piece that starts at the shutoff and runs roughly 100’ to the meter. So food for thought; copper isn’t the be all end all in certain instances any more. I would talk to the local plumbers and see what they recommend. By the way the house across the street just sold to a couple from Colorado and they had to have their yard dug up to replace their 80’s installed copper pipe service this week.

 

[no704]

I think pex installed in an attic repipe may also act as a sprinkler system.

 

[JRC3]

The plumbers in my small town have made a fortune replacing the service lines around town. My parents purchased their 1907 built house in 1979. At that time dad had the service line replaced with L or hard copper 3/4” line. Flash forward to the early 2000s and after replacing many pin hole leaks in the copper throughout the house the main service line developed a big leak fairly close to the shutoff. Part of yard had collapsed is the only way we new because it was before the meter in the house. Around 1990 the town put in a water treatment plant that somehow puts an ion charge in the piping and that charge attacks the copper piping. We now have a 1” pex al pex serv line and haven’t had to replace any of the left over copper in the house. Also the new service line is one continuous piece that starts at the shutoff and runs roughly 100’ to the meter. So food for thought; copper isn’t the be all end all in certain instances any more. I would talk to the local plumbers and see what they recommend. By the way the house across the street just sold to a couple from Colorado and they had to have their yard dug up to replace their 80’s installed copper pipe service this week.

Low pH will have the same affect. That's the main reason they offer both brass and plastic PEX fittings, though most buy the plastic to save a dollar.

 

[Bucko]

Tract home. Well, unless his house is really on tracks.

The resident grammar princess has been found.

 

[nadogail]

PEX seems to work fine and last a long time. I have two rental houses that were built with PEX and neither one of them have had a problem with the PEX. I can’t say the same about the metal things like valves that are attached to the PEX. I have become a fan of Shark Byte connections.