Pine VS Oak bracing in barn

[reman]

Hello everyone. I haven't posted here in a while but do read frequently. Right now I have a couple of questions that I need some opinions on. Actually, I will make two separate post's. A couple of months after Hurricane Michael mostly leveled my area, I put up a 40' X 60' typical pole barn. 8 X 8 posts, pre-fab steel trusses, 2 X 6 perlings and metal roof. The 8 X 8 posts are 12' apart. I am bracing in between these with horizontal 2 X 6's. The 2 X 6's will have each end butted up to the inside of each post. I am using all rough sawn lumber. My question is, Is there a particular advantage / disadvantage to using either pine or oak for this bracing? Also with the bracing being endways, will it matter if some of the wood is not completely dried? I have plenty of lumber sawed up, but there is a larger supply of oak. Thanks for your thoughts and any advice. Ron

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am bracing in between these with horizontal 2 X 6's. The 2 X 6's will have each end butted up to the inside of each post.

BAD DESIGN ! If this 2x6 is "load carrying", it needs to be "let in" to the post. Even if it is just to hold the post from side to side movement, tightly fitted into a pocket is more secure. In both cases, 45° brace from the post to the cross beam would help, but again, how that brace is attached is crucial.

I am using all rough sawn lumber. My question is, Is there a particular advantage / disadvantage to using either pine or oak for this bracing?

Oak is stronger, but it probably does not matter in this application

Also with the bracing being endways, will it matter if some of the wood is not completely dried?

Likely, yes. As wood dries, it will shrink. Depending how that bracing is attached to the post, it could wind up being useless if a gap opens up.

 

[Samh]

Hello everyone. I haven't posted here in a while but do read frequently. Right now I have a couple of questions that I need some opinions on. Actually, I will make two separate post's. A couple of months after Hurricane Michael mostly leveled my area, I put up a 40' X 60' typical pole barn. 8 X 8 posts, pre-fab steel trusses, 2 X 6 perlings and metal roof. The 8 X 8 posts are 12' apart. I am bracing in between these with horizontal 2 X 6's. The 2 X 6's will have each end butted up to the inside of each post. I am using all rough sawn lumber. My question is, Is there a particular advantage / disadvantage to using either pine or oak for this bracing? Also with the bracing being endways, will it matter if some of the wood is not completely dried? I have plenty of lumber sawed up, but there is a larger supply of oak. Thanks for your thoughts and any advice. Ron

Am I understanding it correctly that what you are essentially doing is bracing it almost like making a strongback?

 

[reman]

Actually, I did not go into complete detail in the original post. There is another 2 x 6 fastened to each side of each post and flushed with outside of the post. Each of these have 4 pockets, or notchces, evenly spaced, cut into the outside edge. The notches are 2 inches deep and 6 inches long. Each 2 x 6 brace will rest in these notches, very tightly against the post. If any brace tries to move it will push directly against a post. I think this similear to the basics you stated above. Lastly the braces will serve as attachment points for the outside metal.......I know about the shrinkage of drying lumber, but I did wonder if it would be negligible on the length of a board? Thanks for the input.

 

[reman]

Am I understanding it correctly that what you are essentially doing is bracing it almost like making a strongback?

I am not totally familiar with "strongback" in this context, but I think the answer is yes. What I am doing would prevent any post from moving, without all of them moving. All 6 posts on a side are tied securely together. I explained in another reply what I am actually doing. Thanks

 

[metlmunchr]

The wood will shrink significantly across the width and thickness as it dries, but the length will change very little. On the order of 0.1% to 0.2%

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/dimensional-shrinkage/

 

[matt_i]

BAD DESIGN ! If this 2x6 is "load carrying", it needs to be "let in" to the post. Even if it is just to hold the post from side to side movement, tightly fitted into a pocket is more secure. In both cases, 45° brace from the post to the cross beam would help, but again, how that brace is attached is crucial.

My opinion is that because its a post-frame the posts bear the moment, not the blocking in between that's there to hold up the siding.....

How many post frame buildings are built with the horizontal girts nailed right to the face of the posts and not set into a sawed and chiseled pocket (I'd say above 95%)....

Oak's major issue in my opinion is that its poor to nail (splinter and crack instead of being ductile enough for the nail to penetrate without a lot of cracking). Maybe when its green its OK, I can't comment on that having nailed zero green oak...its all been dried wood. But you can machine it for screws. Something like a Kreg Jig adapted to use longer torx screws could be your friend. It will be harder on saw blades.

 

[bob15]

If I understand this correctly, you just want to run 2x's horizontally between posts?

I would stick with pine, but I would also make sure it is either kiln dried or air dried (for at least a year) before using it. Dried oak is a royal PIA for driving in fasteners.

Could you post a picture of what you're wanting to do?

 

[ALinCarolina]

Munchr is right about shrinkage. They won't shrink much linearly. But if you are insetting them in dadoes cut into the posts then when the horizontal boards shrink you will lose the mechanical advantage due to the loose fit. Oak is stronger but if the main forces are compression or tension along the length (I'm not an engineer) rather than bending or supporting weight in the middle then pine is fine.
Adding some bracing at 45* up high would add much to the racking resistance for the next hurricane. If you will be attaching sheathing it will act that way also.

 

[GMCGarage]

Hello everyone. I haven't posted here in a while but do read frequently. Right now I have a couple of questions that I need some opinions on. Actually, I will make two separate post's. A couple of months after Hurricane Michael mostly leveled my area, I put up a 40' X 60' typical pole barn. 8 X 8 posts, pre-fab steel trusses, 2 X 6 perlings and metal roof. The 8 X 8 posts are 12' apart. I am bracing in between these with horizontal 2 X 6's. The 2 X 6's will have each end butted up to the inside of each post. I am using all rough sawn lumber. My question is, Is there a particular advantage / disadvantage to using either pine or oak for this bracing? Also with the bracing being endways, will it matter if some of the wood is not completely dried? I have plenty of lumber sawed up, but there is a larger supply of oak. Thanks for your thoughts and any advice. Ron

What is in between the posts now? Why are they not sufficient?

post a picture, or drawing of what you are doing.

 

[OneOfEm]

If your new building was built for current windload requirements, the posts are seriously anchored, and oversized, and the exterior sheathing will prevent racking far better than any horizontal bracing you'd add.

If you want to add something to attach interior sheathing, pine would be better from an attachment perspective. Of course, if you attach to it while green, you would only have issues down the road when hanging things from them.

 

[reman]

Okay everyone, here is my attempt tp to post a couple pics of what I am doing. None of it is finished and completely fastened off. I know my place is junky, and it will probably continue to be for quite some time yet. lol

 

[reman]

The wood will shrink significantly across the width and thickness as it dries, but the length will change very little. On the order of 0.1% to 0.2%

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/dimensional-shrinkage/

Thank you. That is what I thought but I always like to get other opinions.

 

[reman]

If your new building was built for current windload requirements, the posts are seriously anchored, and oversized, and the exterior sheathing will prevent racking far better than any horizontal bracing you'd add.

If you want to add something to attach interior sheathing, pine would be better from an attachment perspective. Of course, if you attach to it while green, you would only have issues down the road when hanging things from them.

The barn is built to Florida specs. But 90% of all poles in the area were taken down by the storm. With 14' eaves I just want to give it every advantage against any strong winds, though I know nature can take down anything that man puts up. The outside sheathing will screw to these 2x6's. Short of another disaster, I want this barn to last my son for another 40 years.

 

[OneOfEm]

Those horizontal pieces are what are referred to as girts. On my drawing, they were spaced 24" on center. There's also a best practice for screw placement on the metal when it goes up. Whoever sold your supplies should be able to provide those details.

I don't know exactly where you are, but I'm near Pensacola. I purchased my metal from Surplus and Salvage in Chipley, and others I know have been happy with Baker.

 

[reman]

Those horizontal pieces are what are referred to as girts. On my drawing, they were spaced 24" on center. There's also a best practice for screw placement on the metal when it goes up. Whoever sold your supplies should be able to provide those details.

I don't know exactly where you are, but I'm near Pensacola. I purchased my metal from Surplus and Salvage in Chipley, and others I know have been happy with Baker.

I am about 18 miles south of Marianna. I bought the barn kit from a company in Levy county, based on price. In retrospect I should have gone with a kit from Surplus and Salvage. Ends up, theirs is a little bit better quality than the one I bought. Metal for the house roof came from Baker. Thy have a place about 15 miles away and I have used them several times. Thanks for your input. Ron