Ping-Pong Problem (Solved! We're in fun mode now...)

[Private Lugnutz]

Lutz,

You'd fit right in around here! We are always aiming for the bad bumps.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Guys,

Just getting around to this project, so I thought I would post an update.

1. Granite remnant. Going to be a no-go. Cost-prohibitive. I visited three granite places around me, found several suitable 4-1/2' x 5' slabs, but even remnant pricing is high, from $35 to $45 per square foot. At these dimensions, a low price is $1,575.

2. MDO. Cool stuff. I like how impervious it seems and that it's paintable. But I can't find any building supply in this area who can order it in anything but 4' x 8' sheets. I was thinking I could throw one 4' x 8' sheet on my base and then build out a 5' x 9' layer of MDO on top of that, with only 6" overhang all around, in four (4) pieces: two panels at 4' x 5' and then the other two at 1' x 2-1/2', end to end, in the very middle where the net goes. But, that's more seams than I would like, and at ~$100 per right now, needing 3 sheets just to build a 5' x 9' playing surface in pieces, also costly.

3. Sheet Metal. Steel outfits here have 5052 Aluminum and 304 Stainless only in 4'. They can get Diamond Plate Aluminum at 5', but it's more costly ($750) that I would like. I'm going to look at 16 gauge (1/16") Galvanized ($250) on Monday, but that is pretty thin and will probably need a frame/backing.

4. Concrete. Easily the least expensive option, but it's the most work. And when I'm done, I'm a little worried about the weight of a 5' x 9' x 2" slab. It would need to be lifted and flipped over. (The best way to make concrete tables, countertops, etc, is to use a Melamine form. The top of the table - which is the bottom of the pour, would be the concrete against the super smooth Melamine. Hence the need to flip it over.) I thought, well, maybe I could build the form right there on the base of the ping pong table, pour it in place, and concentrate on a smooth finish that I will likely have to sand and polish and seal. Then I could disassemble the sides of the form and leave the bottom in place. Or, I could use Melamine, as planned, and pour two 5' x 4-1/2' x 2" slabs, so that they are easier to lift and flip. But that means I have to build two forms.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Bummer all the options have issues.

Might be cheaper to buy a used ping pong table EVERY summer?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Somebody on CL in Barnegat is actually giving away an older two-panels no-legs type table for free, which would be perfect, since I already have a base built in my yard. But as I said in post #9 in reply to the first time you suggested that (see post #7), , I was looking for something more permanent.

 

[rlitman]

...
4. Concrete. Easily the least expensive option, but it's the most work. And when I'm done, I'm a little worried about the weight of a 5' x 9' x 2" slab. It would need to be lifted and flipped over. (The best way to make concrete tables, countertops, etc, is to use a Melamine form. The top of the table - which is the bottom of the pour, would be the concrete against the super smooth Melamine. Hence the need to flip it over.) I thought, well, maybe I could build the form right there on the base of the ping pong table, pour it in place, and concentrate on a smooth finish that I will likely have to sand and polish and seal. Then I could disassemble the sides of the form and leave the bottom in place. Or, I could use Melamine, as planned, and pour two 5' x 4-1/2' x 2" slabs, so that they are easier to lift and flip. But that means I have to build two forms.

Flip a concrete slab that size? Yeah, that's not happening without breaking it.

Anyway, the beauty of concrete countertops is not found on the surface of the concrete. It's what's exposed from the inside by grinding. So, the melamine gives you a smooth underside, and you grind the top heavily, to expose the aggregate, or whatever else you put in there (marbles, coins, broken glass bottles, etc.)

And for a slab of that size, you're going to need to forget about moving it at all, plus you'll need a LOT of solid support (concrete doesn't do overhangs well). 2" is not going to work! For one thing, the rebar needs to be at least 2" from the top surface, or you'll see shadows of it appear.

Amazon.com

However, a word of caution. The recipes in the textbook above (this is the best reference on the subject) are for indoor countertops. Cheng gets his beautiful results using concrete without entrained air. Unfortunately, entrained air is added to concrete specifically to prevent spalling in freezing weather. It's fine in a kitchen to do this, but outdoors, I'm not sure what would happen if you follow a traditional concrete countertop recipe. And if you do use concrete with entrained air, you will not get the gloss finish you may be seeing online. Which means you may want to contact some manufacturers of surface densifiers to see what's rated for outdoor use.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

So, the melamine gives you a smooth underside, and you grind the top heavily, to expose the aggregate, or whatever else you put in there (marbles, coins, broken glass bottles, etc.)

That's a neat idea.

2" is not going to work! For one thing, the rebar needs to be at least 2" from the top surface, or you'll see shadows of it appear.

I was thinking a wire grating. I'll have to reconsider.

Thanks for the link.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Somebody on CL in Barnegat is actually giving away an older two-panels no-legs type table for free, which would be perfect, since I already have a base built in my yard. But as I said in post #9 in reply to the first time you suggested that (see post #7), , I was looking for something more permanent.

Yeah, I remember those posts. I just wanted to give you an out if you needed it (always helping you know).

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No problem. I'll get this done one way or another.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Update:

I just bought a 5' x 12' sheet of #10 Galvannealed Steel. It was on a bargain rack and they are doing the cut to 9' for free and keeping the drop. Galvannealed steel is just as corrosive resistant as galvanized, but the process (the typical galvanizing hot zinc bath is followed by an air knife and then a furnace to alloy/anneal the zinc and the steel) produces a matte finish, so there will be less glare than stainless, aluminum, or galvanized. It is supposed to be much harder than galvanized, too, and its half the cost of stainless.

I pick it up on Thursday.

Mrs. Lugz is happy because she liked the urban landscape look of the steel table we played on in a park in Barcelona. That table had a solid perforated steel "net", but I already have an idea for a steel mesh net that I am really excited about doing while I wait for the table top.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Picked up the sheet of Galvanneal today. I am super stoked about this choice. Love the crisp sleek lines and the way the flat matte finish looks light grey, slate, green or even blue depending on the light and the angle. I'll take a few more tomorrow in the morning - these are all evening shots. That steel mesh net is re-purposed from a roll of rain gutter leaf guard! It's exactly regulation height.

 

[Wrench97]

You may want to think about rounding the corners a bit, But it does look nice.

 

[steaks&anvils]

OK, that is way cooler than just buying a used one every year.

Way cooler.

Except maybe hotter? just curious, how shaded is your area? If that were here in Colorado, you would be able to fry eggs on it today.

But still, way cool!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, guys!

That side yard is to the east of my house, which faces due north. It gets a little morning light, but the table is under a tree, and, by noon, in the shadow of the house all afternoon and evening. That brightness on the fence is from the last hour of sunlight in the western sky coming in over my front porch.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Thanks, guys!

That side yard is to the east of my house, which faces due north. It gets a little morning light, but the table is under a tree, and, by noon, in the shadow of the house all afternoon and evening. That brightness on the fence is from the last hour of sunlight in the western sky coming in over my front porch.

That's good.

Forgot: the net is great too!

 

[bradpac]

Very nice. Galvanneal is not something you see a lot of anymore, has a cool look to it for sure and should hold up for many years.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, S&A and bradpac.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Just got the "Steel? Isn't it too hot?" thing from my 34YO son, the self-proclaimed champ of the family, who has some strange recollections about the orientation of the house on the earth and the size and location of the pine tree. He also asked for some plans. So I snapped these shots at 4:30PM EST.

 

[bbbarracuda]

Does the steel top play any different from wood? Ball bounce and or spin? Home court advantage for whoever gets used to it first?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Good question. No. Or at least not detectable. The finish on good regulation tables is pretty tight and hard.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Who sez you can't teach an old dog new tricks? My frosh, kid #5 of 5 is home from college for Thanksgiving break, wanted to play some ping pong, said he had something to show me. I know he's been playing so I figured it was a sharp new backhand or unreturnable serve. Turns out they've been playing a sort of hybrid mix of handball and ping pong on a ping pong table, all table tennis rules, but no paddles, just the flat of your hand, using a Chuckit! brand dog ball! I love it. It's super fun. We just played for hours. Crisp but sunny 43*F and I was down to a t shirt. He was using his left hand for backhands, which is not yet natural enough for me. I was going back-of-right-hand with erratic results.

 

[rlitman]

I would find a 2-part epoxy based wood filler putty, and trowel that into any cracks before sanding. Use epoxy filler (other options are not as waterproof), and be sure to use one that is specifically listed as sandable like wood (some epoxy putties like Marine Tex harden like a rock, and when you sand them, you end up digging into the adjacent wood). PC-7 comes to mind.

I do not believe that Minwax 2-part wood filler is epoxy. It looks to be polyester, like Bondo, which would make it an inferior exterior product.

 

[Monza Harry]

Private Lugnuts, what did you use to protect the now fresh cut edges [they are now raw exposed steel]? There are cold Galvanizing compounds available. One is a darker Grey colour and could be used to protect the edge and create boundary like the painted ones. Harry
Like this one?: https://r.search.yahoo.com/cbclk2/d...DMgRydAMw?IG=0ac4d7ccecb94a5790000000005549ad

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nothing! Thanks for the tip. I appreciate that.

 

[rlitman]

Private Lugnuts, what did you use to protect the now fresh cut edges [they are now raw exposed steel]? There are cold Galvanizing compounds available. One is a darker Grey colour and could be used to protect the edge and create boundary like the painted ones. Harry
Like this one?: https://r.search.yahoo.com/cbclk2/dWU9MDI3RjFCNUZDRTY3NDFFNSZ1dD0xNjQwNzI4ODE4NDQ0JnVvPTgwNzQ1NDc2ODk2MTU0Jmx0PTImcz0xJmVzPV9FaUFBTWtHUFNfZmNpSE9JYmxHSzBOLmUwTHk0akVDZF91aUdnY1RVS3FIWTh3LQ--/RV=2/RE=1640757618/RO=10/RU=https://www.bing.com/aclick?ld=e8Nk...DMgRydAMw?IG=0ac4d7ccecb94a5790000000005549ad

My first thought was that a torch applied galvanizing stick might work better (and it creates a real hot galvanized finish):

https://www.rotometals.com/regalv-galvanizing-repair-stick/

But then I realized that the heat risks warping the top, so, forget that idea here.

And you're right, if you masked off the table inside of a boundary, the two-tone effect could look great. ZincIt is good stuff!

 

[bbbarracuda]

saw this online and thought that Private Lugnutz needs to step up his game.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

ZincIt is good stuff!

Noted. Belated thanks.

It may disappoint you and Monza Harry, but I will masking right up to the very edge when I seal the edges. We like the 'no lines' look you see on most permanent outdoor public tables. House rules: If the ball hits the table, it's in!

saw this online and thought that Private Lugnutz needs to step up his game

Beautiful! If a little too, er, Corinthian for my yard. That is representative of the type of permanent outdoor table I was going for, though. If you keep googling you'll find all kinds of stunners, many concrete or quarry stone, but plenty of iron or steel, too.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

'Cuda,

If you like the stone look, google the terms Stone Age, California House Origami, and James de Wulf with the terms ping pong or table tennis. Some of the shapes are gorgeous.

We saw and played on some massive iron and steel outdoor ping pong objets d'art type tables in parks in Europe, but POPP makes a really sleek powder coated outdoor steel table, linked here, that looks fairly easy to copy for any handy sheet metal guy.

 

[Monza Harry]

Noted. Belated thanks.

It may disappoint you and Monza Harry, but I will masking right up to the very edge when I seal the edges. We like the 'no lines' look you see on most permanent outdoor public tables. House rules: If the ball hits the table, it's in!

Beautiful! If a little too, er, Corinthian for my yard. That is representative of the type of permanent outdoor table I was going for, though. If you keep googling you'll find all kinds of stunners, many concrete or quarry stone, but plenty of iron or steel, too.

I am not attached to the lines or ping pong for that matter. I'm just aware of how easily it is for rust to get ahold, especially at spots like that, overlap will help with that. Harry

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Gotcha. I appreciate that extra input.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Temp back up to 44*F here today, so I am dropping a rave review on these two products that Mrs. Claus got me. Joola catch net (easy assembly/disassembly) and I Pong Play robot server (holds 20 balls, varies the service).

 

[danski0224]

Nice table, but Oh My God on those corners and edges.

That **** will cut you to the bone. Quickly.

 

[phred]

Love the table. I always sucked at ping pong and tennis. Poor hand eye coordination. Love watching people play that are really good.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, modesty prevents from claiming "really good," phred, but I can play well enough with finesse, spin, and smashes from forehand and backhand to give serious players a challenge, and I'm very hard to beat among family and friends. Thanks for the compliment, sir! We are pretty much playing ping pong and bocce (you can see the court on some shots upthread) all year long in the yard.