Pioneer mini split install

[softailtom]

This is my experience with installation of a Pioneer 18k 17.7 seer unit. Shop is 21x27 with 5 windows 1 man door 1 overhead door. I purchased the unit from High Seer less than a week to arrive I did all the install myself was going hang the outside unit on my back wall but the brackets they sent me we're flimsy (they gave me money back) so I set it on 2 blocks. I was going to do the evacuation myself then have a hvac guy come in and pressure test but when I was ready to do it the 125.00 became 275.00 so I went looking for someone else lucked into someone who needed work done so while he pressured the system I put synchronizers in his Muncie. The unit works good but temps have been mild will update as temps get warmer. I'm waiting on another line set cover to finish the lines. Thanks to all that posted about mini splits helped me make my choice.

 

[justinjoyal]

What kind of insulation do you have in that shop ?

Did you run the lineset or did the hvac guy do it ?

 

[softailtom]

R13 and I did the line set little tricky making the turn on the back corner but just go slow and it falls in place

 

[toyotadriver]

Looks like you did a nice job. Paint the lineset the same color as your siding and it'll blend right in and be barely noticeable.

 

[justinjoyal]

8' ceilings ? Seems oversized to me but it's hard to really tell...

Is there a constant slope on the drain ? Judging by the siding, the lineset/drain seem to follow a level line ?

 

[softailtom]

9 foot ceilings and moved the drain after that picture you see it next to the window. Line set cover is out of stock at high seer so I'm hold for finishing.

 

[justinjoyal]

Window units cannot be compared to mini-splits in term of performance / efficiency though.

 

[cagullett1]

Justin, where are you located? I'm in a smaller garage and planned on going the same size unit (less insulation) and you said previously that would be oversized. During the summer, my garage doesn't get below 85-90, even at night or first thing in the morning. Texas heat can be brutal, and if the garage doors get opened much, I'm not sure it would be that oversized.

 

[cagullett1]

Hey Tom, did you buy the wifi dongle Highseer sells? If so, have any troubles setting it up?

 

[softailtom]

Hey Tom, did you buy the wifi dongle Highseer sells? If so, have any troubles setting it up?

Yes I did set up was simple the app for your phone is basic no frills at all.

 

[tab2]

Nice job. They aren't intimidating if you're NOT doing the evacuating and charge. I would do another one in a heart beat.

 

[justinjoyal]

Justin, where are you located? I'm in a smaller garage and planned on going the same size unit (less insulation) and you said previously that would be oversized. During the summer, my garage doesn't get below 85-90, even at night or first thing in the morning. Texas heat can be brutal, and if the garage doors get opened much, I'm not sure it would be that oversized.

Insulation plays a big part in sizing so if you have even less than R13 and the garage doors is often open then you could be fine with a bigger unit.

 

[jcthorne]

Anyone know if you have more than one of these in a large space, they each come with a remote, do the remotes interfere with each other or are they coded to be completely independent?

 

[softailtom]

I don't know about the remotes but the wifi app has multiple device options. I would call HighSeer.

 

[prostreetamx]

Looking to do something similar in my new fully insulated 30'x38' x 14' ceiling garage in Las Vegas. I've already ran #10/3 wire to the locations I plan to install each part which in my case will be pretty close with the outside unit being installed about 10' away just outside the interior unit. Can't install till after my final inspection since It is not on prints. Permits for conditioned space cost more and the codes change some but I did set up the original build with this type of unit in mind so insulated for this. Insulation is not required in garages here. Can you give us some cost info? Will also be doing the install myself except for the pressure lines.

 

[softailtom]

Looking to do something similar in my new fully insulated 30'x38' x 14' ceiling garage in Las Vegas. I've already ran #10/3 wire to the locations I plan to install each part which in my case will be pretty close with the outside unit being installed about 10' away just outside the interior unit. Can't install till after my final inspection since It is not on prints. Permits for conditioned space cost more and the codes change some but I did set up the original build with this type of unit in mind so insulated for this. Insulation is not required in garages here. Can you give us some cost info? Will also be doing the install myself except for the pressure lines.

It was 935.00 ship to my house that includes 18k unit with 25ft line set,wifi,line set cover,wall sleeve liner. HighSeer had a 10% off coupon on line that I used.

 

[cagullett1]

Insulation plays a big part in sizing so if you have even less than R13 and the garage doors is often open then you could be fine with a bigger unit.

I've got R13 in 2 walls and an insulated 2 bay door (not sure what rating). Ceiling isn't insulated, but once I find time to insulate it, it would be less than r30 due to only blowing in insulation between the sheetrock and attic floor. I have a feeling that my garage door will open up enough that the TX heat will help keep me from oversizing the unit.

 

[softailtom]

I've got R13 in 2 walls and an insulated 2 bay door (not sure what rating). Ceiling isn't insulated, but once I find time to insulate it, it would be less than r30 due to only blowing in insulation between the sheetrock and attic floor. I have a feeling that my garage door will open up enough that the TX heat will help keep me from oversizing the unit.

The way I looked at it my shop gets full sun with 5 windows and a door going up and down applying regular calculations to my shop would have left me way unhappy.

 

[cagullett1]

The way I looked at it my shop gets full sun with 5 windows and a door going up and down applying regular calculations to my shop would have left me way unhappy.

I like the way you think. Plus, I doubt I'll ever have a smaller space than I'm in now.

 

[soob]

The sizing guides are intended for living space. Space that gets heated and cooled continuously. For a home shop you'll want something that can cool the space down quickly for when you want to use it, not something to keep it a steady temperature 24/7.

 

[softailtom]

Update on pioneer sadly I've been unable to get this to cool effectively I worked with High Seer's technical department on this but they have gave up saying that the mini split is working as designed. I found a hvac company that does some mini split install to come take a look will update.


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[soob]

Why do you think an 18k btu mini split would outperform 8 + 8 + 12 window units?

18k btu would be marginal for that building even if the ceiling was insulated.

 

[yeldogt]

What are you asking it to do -- cool a hot room .. or maintain a space once cool.

There is no way you are going to cool a space with an uninsulated ceiling -- especially in a hot climate like TX.

You had a combined 30k with the window units -- if they did not work .. removing a ton of cooling is not going to work.

 

[softailtom]

What are you asking it to do -- cool a hot room .. or maintain a space once cool.

There is no way you are going to cool a space with an uninsulated ceiling -- especially in a hot climate like TX.

You had a combined 30k with the window units -- if they did not work .. removing a ton of cooling is not going to work.

I've blown in more insulation in the ceiling the window units worked until you open the door then the recovery was hour or more. The pioneer will not hold 82 until the sun goes down. The power consumption by the pioneer is about the same as the 12000 window unit it's very efficient even when running 24/7.


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[PoorOwner]

Maybe late to consider but I had some issue with my last garage. I mounted the air handler close to the ceiling over 9 feet. When I get up on a ladder put my head near the ceiling there is a significant heat here because heat rises. The air handler always have to **** in the hottest air in the room and then cool it.

At least I think that's what happens when it is mounted close the ceiling. The manual would say something like 6" from ceiling minimum doesn't mean you have to... It just has to work extra hard. Let's say the air handler can give a delta of 20 degree cooler air. At my standing height it would be 80F and then the ceiling would be around 84F, the temp reading of the minisplit says. So you already lost 4 degree to mounting it close to ceiling. It is always hot up there and the cold air will not ever get up there to help. Unless you have alot of other airflow to stir the air then it would average out at best.

So for the next install I am going to mount it about 2-3 feet from the ceiling or just above header height. Mitsubishi recommends not to exceed 7.5 feet from floor.

 

[softailtom]

Maybe late to consider but I had some issue with my last garage. I mounted the air handler close to the ceiling over 9 feet. When I get up on a ladder put my head near the ceiling there is a significant heat here because heat rises. The air handler always have to **** in the hottest air in the room and then cool it.

At least I think that's what happens when it is mounted close the ceiling. The manual would say something like 6" from ceiling minimum doesn't mean you have to... It just has to work extra hard. Let's say the air handler can give a delta of 20 degree cooler air. At my standing height it would be 80F and then the ceiling would be around 84F, the temp reading of the minisplit says. So you already lost 4 degree to mounting it close to ceiling. It is always hot up there and the cold air will not ever get up there to help. Unless you have alot of other airflow to stir the air then it would average out at best.

So for the next install I am going to mount it about 2-3 feet from the ceiling or just above header height. Mitsubishi recommends not to exceed 7.5 feet from floor.

That's funny I had a hvac guy out at lunch that was the first thing he said was the distance from the ceiling and also right above the window could be a issue. He's doing a evac and weighing the refrigerant to confirm correct charge.


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[dnwong]

I just did a pioneer install this spring on my garage. 20x29x12 high. Did the install myself and vac the lines and torqued the flare fittings to spec and the system runs great. Barely notice it running at all. I have r19 wall, r38 ceiling and r18 door. My unit is around 10' high.

 

[soob]

If you have an air cushion of hot air with a tall ceiling that might be reasonable.

Just remember that, in general, you want to pull warmer air over the indoor coils as the evaporator is a heat exchanger; the warmer the air is, the more efficiently it works.

 

[firebirdparts]

If you have an air cushion of hot air with a tall ceiling that might be reasonable.

Just remember that, in general, you want to pull warmer air over the indoor coils as the evaporator is a heat exchanger; the warmer the air is, the more efficiently it works.

I think that is a misleading way to look at it. If you're standing on the floor, you want it cool down where you are. The amount of heat removed does not help you if that gets it cooler up next to the ceiling; You're not up there.

 

[ticklechicken]

softailtom - Any updates?

I'm driving down to High Seer tomorrow to pick up my system. You've got me concerned...

 

[softailtom]

Highseers tech department insisted the the unit was over charged so we pulled it out weight it and put 3.25 pounds back in(it had 3.38 pounds in it) Made no difference in performance. The hvac guy reset the board and it seems to be working better. He's installed some pioneer's and he likes the units. I'm going to lower the unit and move it from over the window.


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[ticklechicken]

I'm right at 2x your square footage, and I picked up two 18k units. It'll be a few weeks until they're running. I'll be interested to see my results. I hope I'm getting enough cooling.

• 24x45x10
• no windows
• 3 man doors
• 1 insulated roll up door
• closed cell foam - 2" on walls, 3" on ceiling

 

[softailtom]

I'm right at 2x your square footage, and I picked up two 18k units. It'll be a few weeks until they're running. I'll be interested to see my results. I hope I'm getting enough cooling.

• 24x45x10
  
• no windows
  
• 3 man doors
  
• 1 insulated roll up door
  
• closed cell foam - 2" on walls, 3" on ceiling
  

I hope you do too I'm very disappointed in the performance High Seers tech support hasn't been much help. I don't think it's moving much air even in turbo mode.


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[Razorsedge]

I think it's just undersized. I went with a 36k in my 25x30x12 and it works well, but anything less would've been disappointing. The shop is has insulated walls, ceilings, and doors and the mini split will hold it at 72* on a 110* day. If I don't run it all day and just turn it on when I plan on going out there it will take it from 95* inside to 72* in about 1.5-2 hours

 

[dw1]

I just inquired with High Seer about a Pioneer 18K mini split/heat pump for my pole barn, I am going to put a wall up and have a 16'x30'x12' area closed off with the mini split in it, they said the 18K btu was the correct size? what do you all think??, my walls are R13 and has a combination of barn wood and metal combination finish on them, I am thinking of the barn siding for my ceiling but have not installed it yet. Should I go 24K BTU?
I am getting ready to build a house and could (Will Be) living there for days at a time possibly

 

[dw1]

Update on pioneer sadly I've been unable to get this to cool effectively I worked with High Seer's technical department on this but they have gave up saying that the mini split is working as designed. I found a hvac company that does some mini split install to come take a look will update.


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Tom, have you read through this? it is on their website, not sure if it can help you any?
http://www.highseer.com/pdf/Underperformance_Explained.pdf

 

[softailtom]

I just inquired with High Seer about a Pioneer 18K mini split/heat pump for my pole barn, I am going to put a wall up and have a 16'x30'x12' area closed off with the mini split in it, they said the 18K btu was the correct size? what do you all think??, my walls are R13 and has a combination of barn wood and metal combination finish on them, I am thinking of the barn siding for my ceiling but have not installed it yet. Should I go 24K BTU?

I am getting ready to build a house and could (Will Be) living there for days at a time possibly

24k is what I was going to get but High Seer suggested that I stay at 18k. The hvac guy said he always recommends double what the calculations say for shops because of all the equipment and tools oversizeing not being a problem because of the inverter. If I had a do over I would have got the 24k and just maybe the 30k. My original in plain was to turn it on only when I was in the shop but been running it 24/7 when its 90 or hotter just to maintain 77/80.


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[softailtom]

Tom, have you read through this? it is on their website, not sure if it can help you any?

http://www.highseer.com/pdf/Underperformance_Explained.pdf

Yes have a copy of that working on getting the shop sealed tight and insulated.


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[justinjoyal]

What's the R-value in your ceiling ?

Ever do a load calc?

 

[txoid]

I just install a 24k pioneer in my garage last week. 30x20x9
3 car garage, builder grade door insulation, no windows, no installation except for the wall shared by the house, and no attic installation. Keep it set to 75 and had no problems all week long. It got up to 100 this weekend so I was pleased. I was going to get an 18k but I'm glad I didn't. Once I add insulation, it's not going to be a problem.
I got the + not the ++.