Pioneer Mini Split Systems

[handymancanfixit]

Anyone have any experience or knowledge about Pioneer mini split systems?

They seem to be priced right and include an install kit.

https://www.highseer.com/high-seer-inverter-mini-split-ductless.html

 

[pavementpolisher]

I've been looking at these on Amazon. Seem to have good reviews too. Still torn on the value brand vs. a "popular" brand. Starting to think I could buy a few of these vs. the cost of a popular brand.

 

[AZpilot]

Here is a thread where a guy on here installed one.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247895&highlight=pioneer+mini+split

 

[Warrenator]

I put in a big one, a 24,000 btu unit, last year. Good product, good company to deal with, no complaints. Very quiet and cool. Did the install myself, just needed a vacuum pump, set of gauges, and in my case a extra bit of refrigerant bought off ebay because I had an extra long lineset. Oh, and I also bought a set of mastercool copper tubing benders to make nice bends without kinking the lines.

 

[Firebug24k]

Installed an 18K BTU one last month, been using for heating. Works great.

 

[justinjoyal]

They are low quality, low efficiency units. Basically entry-level units.

Not saying they will not work. Only that you get what you pay for..

 

[handymancanfixit]

They are low quality, low efficiency units. Basically entry-level units.

Not saying they will not work. Only that you get what you pay for..

Did you visit the website and look at the efficiency ratings? They have units that are rated as high as 23.5 SEER, and they are all AHRI Certified.

I completely disagree with the "you get what you pay for" statement. In this day and age, you most certainly are not guaranteed to get what you pay for. Your best hope these days is to get the best possible customer service and support because you are almost certainly guaranteed to need it.

I can provide a long list of American and imported brands that my family, friends and myself have owned and thought, "I should not be having problems with this brand of product".

Anyway, enough on the soap box. Most of the people on forums are enthusiasts or DIYers. DIYers want a good product with good support at a fair price and are willing to do some work to save quite a bit in most cases.

Most of the reviews of the Pioneer systems that i have read have been positive. Are they the highest quality unit, certainly not. But they do seem to be a great bang for the buck for the DIYer and it seems that the company provides pretty good customer service/support.

 

[justinjoyal]

Did you visit the website and look at the efficiency ratings? They have units that are rated as high as 23.5 SEER, and they are all AHRI Certified.



I completely disagree with the "you get what you pay for" statement. In this day and age, you most certainly are not guaranteed to get what you pay for. Your best hope these days is to get the best possible customer service and support because you are almost certainly guaranteed to need it.



I can provide a long list of American and imported brands that my family, friends and myself have owned and thought, "I should not be having problems with this brand of product".



Anyway, enough on the soap box. Most of the people on forums are enthusiasts or DIYers. DIYers want a good product with good support at a fair price and are willing to do some work to save quite a bit in most cases.



Most of the reviews of the Pioneer systems that i have read have been positive. Are they the highest quality unit, certainly not. But they do seem to be a great bang for the buck for the DIYer and it seems that the company provides pretty good customer service/support.

I have visited the website and stand by my statement.

Yes, they do have some higher efficiency units, but the specs are still not up there with the higher quality units.

Warranty is almost non-existant as well, from what I have read.

Higher quality/performance comes at a price.

I do agree that paying more does not always mean you get more, because there are people out there who like to bank money and don't mind ripping people off. However, there's still good hvac guys who care about their customers.

I also agree they can be good units for DIYers on a budget. No doubt about that.

However the bottom line is that a high quality unit installed by a Pro will last longer and perform better. It's up to the customer to decide what fits his situation and I totally respect that.

[emoji1303]

 

[handymancanfixit]

I have visited the website and stand by my statement.

Yes, they do have some higher efficiency units, but the specs are still not up there with the higher quality units.

Warranty is almost non-existant as well, from what I have read.

Higher quality/performance comes at a price.

I do agree that paying more does not always mean you get more, because there are people out there who like to bank money and don't mind ripping people off. However, there's still good hvac guys who care about their customers.

I also agree they can be good units for DIYers on a budget. No doubt about that.

However the bottom line is that a high quality unit installed by a Pro will last longer and perform better. It's up to the customer to decide what fits his situation and I totally respect that.

[emoji1303]

I'm not sure what specs you are referring to, but the government and utility companies only reference the SEER and HSPF ratings of HVAC units. The Pioneer units are comparable with most of the major brands.

The warranty is clearly stated, 3 years on the compressor and 1 year on everything else, parts only, no labor covered. This is where all HVAC manufacturers agree. The labor prices on HVAC repair are so scattered that the only way you can get it covered is by signing a contract with your local HVAC repair company.

HVAC labor prices can range from "fair" to "10x fair" or more. The smaller independent HVAC companies tend to be more reasonably priced, most likely due to their low overhead.

In this day and age of "internet transparency", educated people everywhere have come to understand that most HVAC companies are charging astronomical rates to install equipment and are marking up the equipment on top of that. It's a free market, companies can charge what they can get.

I totally 100% disagree with your statement "the bottom line is that a high quality unit installed by a Pro will last longer and perform better". The term "Pro" should be used with caution. Just because you are certified and do something in exchange for a wage, in no way, shape or form, makes you a "Pro". I have had some good experience with some truly Pro HVAC guys and I have had some bad experience with some truly terrible HVAC guys, both certified by the same organization.

Anyway, a DIYer that chooses to educate themselves on a subject can in most cases do just as good or a better job than some Pros, and save loads of cash in the process.

The bottom line is whether you are comfortable doing it yourself.

 

[Cryptic1911]

Those no name ductless units can be hit or miss. Sometimes they work fine, other times not so much.. and they don't have the support of a large company like mitsubishi. I can go to any supply house in the area and get parts for a mitsubishi, daikin, lg, etc mini split. The no name brands, you'll have to call direct and get parts shipped, if they are even available. The prices on the no name stuff is really tempting though. If you're having someone else install it, go with what they install and support, as that's what they know

That said, I have a mitsubishi msz-fh15na ductless in my house, and I work at a large hvac company (not an hvac tech myself though)

 

[justinjoyal]

I'm not sure what specs you are referring to, but the government and utility companies only reference the SEER and HSPF ratings of HVAC units. The Pioneer units are comparable with most of the major brands.



The warranty is clearly stated, 3 years on the compressor and 1 year on everything else, parts only, no labor covered. This is where all HVAC manufacturers agree. The labor prices on HVAC repair are so scattered that the only way you can get it covered is by signing a contract with your local HVAC repair company.



HVAC labor prices can range from "fair" to "10x fair" or more. The smaller independent HVAC companies tend to be more reasonably priced, most likely due to their low overhead.



In this day and age of "internet transparency", educated people everywhere have come to understand that most HVAC companies are charging astronomical rates to install equipment and are marking up the equipment on top of that. It's a free market, companies can charge what they can get.



I totally 100% disagree with your statement "the bottom line is that a high quality unit installed by a Pro will last longer and perform better". The term "Pro" should be used with caution. Just because you are certified and do something in exchange for a wage, in no way, shape or form, makes you a "Pro". I have had some good experience with some truly Pro HVAC guys and I have had some bad experience with some truly terrible HVAC guys, both certified by the same organization.



Anyway, a DIYer that chooses to educate themselves on a subject can in most cases do just as good or a better job than some Pros, and save loads of cash in the process.



The bottom line is whether you are comfortable doing it yourself.

You are entitled to your opinion and that's fine.

However, after countless sales/installs of different qualities of ductless mini-splits and ducted systems as well, I definitely do not share your point of view.

I install high efficiency, high specs systems with 10 years parts & labor warranty and hardly ever get call backs.

I also install entry/mid-level units and the difference is easy to tell.

I totally respect the choice of the customer though.

 

[pavementpolisher]

What differences do you see in the systems? I'm all for paying for something different if I can justify the "value" of paying for it.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with different systems. Please elaborate on the differences you've seen.

I've gone back and forth with "not being able to get parts" etc .etc. but this is for a shop, if I don't have heat in there for a week, or AC, even less of a deal yet. What failures besides PCBA boards would you expect?

I too, would be looking at their single zone, 24Kbtu unit.

Thanks!

 

[justinjoyal]

In no particular order: Efficiency, sound levels, CFMs, fan speeds, dehumidification rate, operation temperature range, build quality, warranty, aesthetics, plus all the bells and whistles the higher end models have like RF remote, wifi capability, occupancy mode, temperature sensing from remote, horizontal and vertical louvers swing, programmable swing, programmable operation, auto cut-off, etc.etc.

Now different people value different things so it's up to you to determine what you want and what you don't want to pay for.

One thing is for sure, the high end systems are fit and forget kinda things. We install them and as long as the owner performs the minimal required maintenance, we dont get called back for trouble, and the units last.

And if something was to happen, the 10 year warranty assures the customer peace of mind.

 

[finn]

Sort of like saying that a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce is what a real enthusiast drives.

Why do you bother with that lowly Corvette in your avatar?

 

[justinjoyal]

Sort of like saying that a Ferrari or Rolls-Royce is what a real enthusiast drives.

Why do you bother with that lowly Corvette in your avatar?

Because it will outrun the Rolls Royce ?

 

[handymancanfixit]

Because it will outrun the Rolls Royce ?

But you only get a 3/36, 5/60 warranty on the Corvettes.......

A new Ferrari is covered by with a three year, unlimited mileage, full bumper-to-bumper warranty. This warranty can be extended into the 4th and 5th year Extended Coverage Plus Program.

But wait, there's more!!!

Buy a Ferrari and get 7 years of "free" maintenance and the option to extend your warranty out to 12 years!!!!

Oh, but you say, "I can buy 2 or more Corvettes for the price of just 1 Ferrari".

But with the lower priced Corvette you don't get:

In no particular order: Top speed, cool sound, build quality, warranty, aesthetics, plus all that the higher end Ferrari has like a carbon fiber monocoque chassis, huge carbon fiber brakes, the fact that it's a hand built Italian race car for the street, etc., etc, blah blah blah...........

Anyway, HVAC companies charge 2-5 times the price of the system to purchase and install it, just because they are the ones with a certificate that allows them to handle refrigerant.

 

[justinjoyal]

You're entitled to your opinion and I will not start e-arguing.

Have a good one!

 

[mellowdave]

I kinda figured Justin was a "Pro"

 

[truckman5000]

Hit or miss.
Im an HVAc contractor, and we have replaced ductless units at a rate of around 70% on no name units, 20% on name brand units, 10% on installed wrong by a HVAC guy.

I have a friend that has a 10k sq ft home. He wanted pioneer, i tried selling him on Mitsubishi. He needed 14 indoor heads, so he first had me install 1- 24k, and 1- 9k pioneer .
Nothing but problems with the 24k, cant get the parts it needs. So he decided to do the 12 other rooms in the Mitsubishi. For the 3 years its been, the 24k pioneer isnt used, Mitsu. untits are fine. The 9k pionner is still good though.