Piping Air With Copper

[jerkyboy]

Bought 1/2" copper pipe last night from Home Depot to run my air lines to my new compressor. I bought the red,which is for hot water, because it was cheaper (about $10 for 10')....am I ok? Just want to check before I start cutting the pipe.

 

[Angelfire]

Here's all the information you need, and then some probably:

http://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

The pipe itself will be more than adequate but how you join it etc... may not. If soldering, be sure to look at the type of solder used vs. what's in this publication to make sure it's gonna meet your needs.

 

[csp]

The color of the stripe doesn't have anything to do with hot or cold water. It has to do with wall thickness and pressure rating. Red it type M and you'd have to have one helluva compressor to approach the limits of it's working pressures.

 

[383 240z]

I MAY be wrong here but I doubt it. Red and blue do not denote hot or cold rather its the type L or M I think one is thicker than the other. I think (and I'm probably way off base here) thick for surface mount thinner for inside walls. Keith

 

[machine_punk]

Here's all the information you need, and then some probably:

http://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

The pipe itself will be more than adequate but how you join it etc... may not. If soldering, be sure to look at the type of solder used vs. what's in this publication to make sure it's gonna meet your needs.

Thanks for the link to the handbook! Added to my reference folder. I plan to do 1/2" copper for my garage, with brazed joints.

Kev

 

[Ironhorse]

What I never understood about this is you have to put up the drywall first then space off for your copper air lines..but taking a torch to each fitting and getting it hotenought to sodier...well lets just way the drywall will catch on fire..pretty quick..so are you sopose to mesure, cut, and sodier everthing on the ground then install?? Did not do mine yet just for this reason...still trying to figure a way around all of this..

 

[blackgold]

Put something behind the copper to protect the wall....

 

[383 240z]

I use MAPP gas. I seem to get less burns as it heats up SOOOO much faster than propane. I also keep a piece of asbestos shingle to slide behind the copper to protect the stud, or drywall. Keith

 

[Calicagesracing]

+1 for mapp gas.
I use a solder mat for protecting the surface behind where I'm soldering
The flexibility makes them very user friendly over a solid piece

 

[tonycastec]

If the burning or fire risk is a concern,there is an alternative to soldering that requires no heat .In theory you could use an epoxy adhesive intended for use on copper pipe. Before the screaming begins, check their technical literature and NSF/Iapmo ratings and note the word 'theory'.
It seems to work IF you follow the instructions to the letter.The pressure limit for 1/2" seems to be about 170psi from what I read a few months ago.At worst it would leak.

 

[Rhsty]

Piped mine with copper over 7 years ago I used Sta-Brite #8 solder it has a tensil strength of 3100 psi if I recall, have had no issues. Good luck with your project.

 

[G_P]

Type M (red) is thinner walled and from what I understand used in radiant heating where the same water is circulated over and over and corrosion is less of a concern. Type L (blue) is a thicker wall used for domestic water.

Lots of houses are plumbed with M as it is cheaper and the builders don't care if it fails 10 years later.

Either one should be fine for air. I have used air to test copper lines for leaks and it held fine up to the 120psi that the pancake compressor shut off at.

Sent from my C5120 using Tapatalk 2

 

[yevangelis]

you could also use the pressure fittings. forget what they're called, they have an Oring inside the ftg. and a tool compresses it onto the pipe- no heat

but its expensive or you have to rent it if thats even possible

 

[jerkyboy]

Thanks for all the input. For those of you not wanting to sweat the joints, you could probably use shark bites or something similar. I plan to dry fit and then sweat.

 

[rickyboy]

Here's all the information you need, and then some probably:

http://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

The pipe itself will be more than adequate but how you join it etc... may not. If soldering, be sure to look at the type of solder used vs. what's in this publication to make sure it's gonna meet your needs.

Thanks for the link, I'll be reading that.

 

[trbomax]

I use MAPP gas. I seem to get less burns as it heats up SOOOO much faster than propane. I also keep a piece of asbestos shingle to slide behind the copper to protect the stud, or drywall. Keith

Dont use asbestos ,you will die!!! and then your survivors will have to pay a hazmat cleanup company to sweep and certify your shop before it can be auctioned off!!!

 

[Racecarl]

I did my shop in 1/2" copper. I would build a section at a time and pull the pipe away from the wall to solder it. I used oxy-acetylene for heat because it was handy and fast. One fitting had to be installed close to the ceiling so I used a piece of tin as a heat shield and it worked fine.

 

[Beaumont67]

Two copper air piping schematic's:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/air-system.htm

 

[Al Bundy]

All the talk about soldering and burning the wall is one of the reasons that black pipe is preferable. No heat, no torch, just some pipe dope and a couple pipe wrenches.

 

[kazlx]

If you can't sweat copper pipe without catching the walls on fire, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. It's not rocket science, especially when the pipe is brand new and has never had water in it. With proper prep, you could heat and sweat a joint in probably 30 seconds. Copper heats up quickly.

 

[djjsr]

Get one of these fabric heat shields. Made by Oatey, available anywhere. It's 9"x12". I use it for propane, mapp and acetylene with no problems. Lasts forever. About $10 or $15.

 

[loveoftiki]

A piece of Hardy tile board works well too.

 

[383 240z]

Dont use asbestos ,you will die!!! and then your survivors will have to pay a hazmat cleanup company to sweep and certify your shop before it can be auctioned off!!!

Asbestos, is only an issue if it is in dust form, as long as I'm not sanding it, then inhaling the dust, no worries. heating it to less than critical temps pose no issues. Keith

 

[metaldad]

Staybrite is great, just do not over flux, and keep the flux out of the piping. Be sure to clean off excess flux when done.
Sheetrock will not burn, just the paper covering will. The mini blankets shown work fine.
Blue stripe is 'M' copper.
Everyone seems to be concerned about doing whatever task at hand professionally. You should use 'L'.
There is also 'K' available, which is overkill.
And if you want to go overboard, use long radius 90's.
Specialty pressed fittings could work, are expensive, improper crimping at installation will 'waste' that fitting.
If you are not using an air drier to remove moisture, be sure to pitch your 'main(s)' to 'drip' leg, with a valve, where moisture can collect away from the air stream and be removed. Pipe your take offs from the top(s) of your main(s).

 

[danski0224]

Thanks for the link to the handbook! Added to my reference folder. I plan to do 1/2" copper for my garage, with brazed joints.

Kev

A brazed copper joint is actually weaker than a soldered copper joint. Technically not the joint itself, but brazing anneals the copper, making it weaker than the brazed joint.

The only advantage to brazing is the process can be done with self-fluxing filler material. This is good for those that like to dip the end of the tubing into the flux container...

Go get yourself some nice plain silver bearing solder that has a working (plastic) range (solidus and liquidus) that allows for minor gap filling and use the recommended flux. Harris StaBrite 8 and Harris Bridgit are excellent examples.

Plain old lead free silver bearing plumbing solder sold at home improvement centers has a narrow working range between melting and melted (solidus and liquidus). The two products above have a much wider range and are worth the extra cost.

StaBrite 8 has more silver in it which results in a stronger and more vibration resistant joint but is roughly 2x the $$ of Bridgit.

You do not need MAPP gas for 1/2" copper. The plastic range is only about 50 degrees and it is real easy to add enough heat to blow right by that working range.

 

[Go Skins]

A brazed copper joint is actually weaker than a soldered copper joint. Technically not the joint itself, but brazing anneals the copper, making it weaker than the brazed joint.

The only advantage to brazing is the process can be done with self-fluxing filler material. This is good for those that like to dip the end of the tubing into the flux container...

Go get yourself some nice plain silver bearing solder that has a working range (solidus and liquidus) that allows for minor gap filling and use the recommended flux. Harris StaBrite 8 and Harris Bridgit are excellent examples.

Plain old lead free silver bearing plumbing solder sold at home improvement centers has a narrow working range between melting and melted (solidus and liquidus). The two products above have a much wider range and are worth the extra cost.

StaBrite 8 has more silver in it which results in a stronger and more vibration resistant joint but is roughly 2x the $$ of Bridgit.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Not to steal your post but has anyone plumbed their compressor with PEX? The price per foot is about .25 to .38/ft, $100 for 300', the Pressure ratings: 80psi @ 200F, 160psi @ 140F, 200psi @ 73F by PPI. The PSI rating drops as the temperture rises, but still 160-200psi in the 140F to 73F range. Yes fitting are more costly but you would save in price per foot. Just wondered if anyone has tried it.

Oh a note on the Oatley heat shield, it's a good idea to wet it first, they will catch on fire when dry.

 

[mothgrey]

Get one of these fabric heat shields. Made by Oatey, available anywhere. It's 9"x12". I use it for propane, mapp and acetylene with no problems. Lasts forever. About $10 or $15.

I use one of these never had an issue

 

[csp]

The only advantage to brazing is the process can be done with self-fluxing filler material.

Brazing is recommended for fire reasons. Solder will flow out of joints in a fire and a running compressor will fuel a fire.

The argument doesn't hold water though when hose reels are present, or flex lines attach compressors and other accessories to hard lines, etc. Those will burn faster than solder will melt.

Even annealed copper at a brazed joint is more than strong enough to handle the pressure in a home air system. Air conditioning lines are brazed and the pressure there is higher than most compressed air systems will be.

 

[Hurricane_Whisperer]

Staybrite is great, just do not over flux, and keep the flux out of the piping. Be sure to clean off excess flux when done.
Sheetrock will not burn, just the paper covering will. The mini blankets shown work fine.
Blue stripe is 'M' copper.
Everyone seems to be concerned about doing whatever task at hand professionally. You should use 'L'.
There is also 'K' available, which is overkill.
And if you want to go overboard, use long radius 90's.
Specialty pressed fittings could work, are expensive, improper crimping at installation will 'waste' that fitting.
If you are not using an air drier to remove moisture, be sure to pitch your 'main(s)' to 'drip' leg, with a valve, where moisture can collect away from the air stream and be removed. Pipe your take offs from the top(s) of your main(s).

Blue stripe is L, red stripe is m and is also a beer made in Jamaica.

Green stripe is K.

 

[PT Doc]

Not to steal your post but has anyone plumbed their compressor with PEX? The price per foot is about .25 to .38/ft, $100 for 300', the Pressure ratings: 80psi @ 200F, 160psi @ 140F, 200psi @ 73F by PPI. The PSI rating drops as the temperture rises, but still 160-200psi in the 140F to 73F range. Yes fitting are more costly but you would save in price per foot. Just wondered if anyone has tried it.

Oh a note on the Oatley heat shield, it's a good idea to wet it first, they will catch on fire when dry.

If someone was running the compressor kind of hard, what would the temps be in the copper? I someone put the regulator closest to the tool and is running 175psi up till the regulator, having a good understanding of the temps and psi are key.

 

[metaldad]

Blue stripe is L, red stripe is m and is also a beer made in Jamaica.

Green stripe is K.

oops.
didn't have enough coffee at post time.

 

[Milton Shaw]

If you do solder it, do make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy and some water to cool things off. A washrag in a water bucket will cool the joint and any wood around it you got hot. We had an apartment house burn down here several years ago from someone soldering without any fire protection equipment. Before he could find any the apartment was 100 involved. This applies to soldering, welding, brazing, any time you are using a fire/heat around a house.

 

[pfarber]

Dont use asbestos ,you will die!!! and then your survivors will have to pay a hazmat cleanup company to sweep and certify your shop before it can be auctioned off!!!

********!

Asbestos is alive and well it lots of products:

"Meanwhile, in the United States, asbestos is still legally used in 3,000 different consumer products, predominantly building materials and automobile parts. In addition, asbestos remains in millions of structures throughout the country, as it was added to everything from roofing shingles and cement wallboard to pipe lagging and floor tiles for the better part of a century.

Cited From: Asbestos Products in the Home and Workplace | Asbestos.net http://www.asbestos.net/exposure/products#ixzz2FFQs50Wh
"

You don't want to breath is, but its everywhere.

So hows about educating yourself, and not crying wolf.

More importantly... where are you getting copper pipe for $10?!?!?! I can't get anything less than $30.

Show a receipt, please.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Dont use asbestos ,you will die!!! and then your survivors will have to pay a hazmat cleanup company to sweep and certify your shop before it can be auctioned off!!!

********!

Asbestos is alive and well it lots of products:

"Meanwhile, in the United States, asbestos is still legally used in 3,000 different consumer products, predominantly building materials and automobile parts. In addition, asbestos remains in millions of structures throughout the country, as it was added to everything from roofing shingles and cement wallboard to pipe lagging and floor tiles for the better part of a century.

Cited From: Asbestos Products in the Home and Workplace | Asbestos.net http://www.asbestos.net/exposure/products#ixzz2FFQs50Wh
"

You don't want to breath is, but its everywhere.

So hows about educating yourself, and not crying wolf.

More importantly... where are you getting copper pipe for $10?!?!?! I can't get anything less than $30.

Show a receipt, please.

Don't be so quick to jump down someone's throat, I took trbomax's post to be sarcasm and that he doesn't really mean that.

Charles

 

[rodm1]

What I never understood about this is you have to put up the drywall first then space off for your copper air lines..but taking a torch to each fitting and getting it hotenought to sodier...well lets just way the drywall will catch on fire..pretty quick..so are you sopose to mesure, cut, and sodier everthing on the ground then install?? Did not do mine yet just for this reason...still trying to figure a way around all of this..

Plumbers use a steel plate or sheet for a heat sink.

 

[trbomax]

Don't be so quick to jump down someone's throat, I took trbomax's post to be sarcasm and that he doesn't really mean that.

Charles

Yeah,it was a tinfoil hat joke.Too bad we have so many uptight people on here. Seems to be getting worse too! I'll just shut the **** up!

 

[Lippyp]

I have a flexible solder mat but also an old ceramic tile works well, after all, thats what stopped the space shuttle burning up on re-entry!

 

[1wheeldrive]

I've been working on copper airlines in my garage the last few days, I have never sweated pipes before, was intimidated at first, but it is actually easy and kinda fun to me.

I am using short pieces of unistrut screwed to the wall with rubber lined anti-vibe pipe clamps for mounting. 3/4 lines with 1/2 drops all blue (L type) sloped back towards the compressor. Map gas and hardware store silver bearing lead free solder. Dry fitting it, then I take it down, clean and flux, put it back up and solder.

I am going overboard but having fun, after pricing all the fittings copper was comparable in price to doing iron pipes, but if you ask me copper is way easier to work with. Lighter, easy to cut and mod/repair with a 15$ hand tool, no f***ing with crappy sealing threads or anything. The unistrut spaces the lines out around 2" from the wall, I just hang a metal paint pan behind it and no fires yet. Big bucket of water and a fire extinguisher close just in case though.

 

[jerkyboy]

Dont use asbestos ,you will die!!! and then your survivors will have to pay a hazmat cleanup company to sweep and certify your shop before it can be auctioned off!!!

********!

Asbestos is alive and well it lots of products.....

More importantly... where are you getting copper pipe for $10?!?!?! I can't get anything less than $30.

Show a receipt, please.

Too late, why the hell didn't you tell me that sooner? It's ok though, the asbestos that I used only flaked off a small pile of dust that I had my kids sweep up and toss in the garbage, which my wife took out. Also, my dog took care of (licked up) what my kids missed. That stuff must taste good because he was licking his chops afterwards.

Got the copper at Home Depot...http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...eyword=copper+pipe&storeId=10051#.UM9dpK6AjjQ