I will be piping the air in my new shop soon. I have a 5 HP compressor, but not sure about the cfm. Will 3/4 black pipe be large enough? The shop is 50' long. My air will will be in the ceiling with hoses on reels. If I leave the compressor and go straight up 10' with a drain at the bottom, be enough to condense the water?
Piping Air
- Thread starter Deltarat
- Start date
Nealcrenshaw
Well-known member
What's the max air pressure of the compressor?
Maulerman
Active member
3/4 should do fine for a 5 HP compressor unless you have a short high demand load. Use a minimum of 3/8 hose on the reels if you want to run any decent impact wrench. Put drain legs in wherever you drop from the main line.
MXtras
Well-known member
3/4" is a good choice.
Scott
Scott
TonyHuntimerRaceHome
Member
If I'm puting int a 135 MAX PSI compressor in a smallish 2-car garage, can I run 1/2" copper pipe with soldered joints around the garage to tap into? Or should I be using larger diameter or different material. The garage is almost small enough not to need more than a hose on the ground, but I'd rather have the plumbed air line.
Thanks,
Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com
Thanks,
Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com
rocketman
Well-known member
I'm considering putting my compressor in the basement and piping to the garage too. No need for me to run a 220 outlet then in the garage. As I'm running out my sub-panel, I can get by with a 60A panel vs 100A. Only handling power hand tools and the lighting. I don't weld so no need for a 220V
3/4 inch gas pipe for the air but you guys are talking about drain "legs?" Would that be an extension coming off the bottom end of a T with a drain cap to drain water occasionally? Can you eliminate that with a drier by the compressor?I have an oiler dongle I put on in between the tool and the line when I need it.
3/4 inch gas pipe for the air but you guys are talking about drain "legs?" Would that be an extension coming off the bottom end of a T with a drain cap to drain water occasionally? Can you eliminate that with a drier by the compressor?I have an oiler dongle I put on in between the tool and the line when I need it.
Deltarat:
At 50 feet you are right at the ¾ vs 1 inch decision point.
If you are going to be using high volume stuff at the far end (spray guns, sand blasting, etc) go up to 1 inch. The flow restriction is much less.
Small slope on the long horizontal run with the last drop with a good drip leg and drain valve.
All the other drops should be the “up and over” type where you come off the main on the top and do a 180 to the ground.
I like to go to the first vertical off the tank with a flex pipe into a tee with a 12 inch drip leg with a drain. 10 feet above that should give some good cooling unless you are using a whole lot of air.
Rocketman:
You have the idea of what a drip leg is.
They are a lot cheaper than a drier and for home or small shop use just as good.
At 50 feet you are right at the ¾ vs 1 inch decision point.
If you are going to be using high volume stuff at the far end (spray guns, sand blasting, etc) go up to 1 inch. The flow restriction is much less.
Small slope on the long horizontal run with the last drop with a good drip leg and drain valve.
All the other drops should be the “up and over” type where you come off the main on the top and do a 180 to the ground.
I like to go to the first vertical off the tank with a flex pipe into a tee with a 12 inch drip leg with a drain. 10 feet above that should give some good cooling unless you are using a whole lot of air.
Rocketman:
You have the idea of what a drip leg is.
They are a lot cheaper than a drier and for home or small shop use just as good.
e-tek
Well-known member
I have never seen 1inch piping, even in automotive or bodyshops. It's all 3/4" blackpipe. (Not to say it wouldn't work, but it's probably overkill).
TonyHuntimerRaceHome
Member
That's what this is, no problem getting air to the tools, also holds enough air that I can remove a few lug nuts with the valve turned off at the compressor. Reduces down to 3/4" just before the regulator/filter.
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goodfellow
Well-known member
I've run both -- copper and black pipe
Copper is the best choice -- no rust, no flaking. It's easy to work with, but it's expensive.
Black Pipe is cheaper, but harder to work with; no soldering, harder to cut -- just needs to be threaded and sealed, so you'll need a pipe threading tool and pipe dope. Also, it'll rust quickly (especially in humid areas) and begin to introduce rust particles into the air system
No experience with galvanized -- I've heard that galvanized tends to flake as it deteriorates and introduce a lot of junk into the air system at a rapid rate. I can't attest to that though
Nealcrenshaw
Well-known member
1. Black pipe is cheaper than galvanized and copper!
2. Not sure what the maximum psi is for copper.
Deltarat 3/4" is good for up to 300 psi.
2. Not sure what the maximum psi is for copper.
Deltarat 3/4" is good for up to 300 psi.
JohnK007
Well-known member
My understanding is the galvanized pipe you typically buy at the Big Box stores is seamed and not rated for compressed gases. Copper would work if you use the heavier K or L rated tubing. Copper is pretty expensive now though.
goodfellow
Well-known member
Holy He!! Steve, you've created a monster there
That's some strong piping, any reason for going 1 inch? You must have some seriously long runsHoly He!! Steve, you've created a monster there
The larger pipe gives more storage and results in the air moving thru the pipe slower at any given flow rate which gives it more time to cool down & condense out the water in the air. There was a formula posted somewhere to figure out the velocity of the air moving thru the pipe & it worked out to be 7 fps in this size pipe. I don't have any water problem and get hardly any water in the separator even on hot humid days so it does work.
Industrial Concepts
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 97
Are you piping in a straight run? A 5hp compressor should produce around 20-25 cfm. Volume (cfm) is what runs tools not high air pressure. 1in. dia. pipe will have about .19 psi pressure drop, 3/4in. pipe the pressure drop is about is almost a lb. pressure drop. With air piping bigger is usally better. We have put in a lot of aluminum piping in body shops & manufacturing. Most shops with 400ft. or less of pipe we use 11/4 in. pipe. We always do a loop system.
I would not use black pipe for airline. with such a short run that you looking to run go with copper or aluminum, neither should break the bank.
-olllllllo-
Well-known member
That's what this is, no problem getting air to the tools, also holds enough air that I can remove a few lug nuts with the valve turned off at the compressor. Reduces down to 3/4" just before the regulator/filter.
Ok, sorry but that system makes zero sense to me. The piping goes nowhere. All you've done is create a large manifold AT the compressor. The o.p. was asking about piping a shop, not just at the compressor.
I can appreciate a water drain, but that seems excessive just to drain water. It doesn't seem to serve any other purpose, at least in my eyes.
I could be wrong (probably am) sorry for the crits if that is the case and ya explain it here then.
That's what this is, no problem getting air to the tools, also holds enough air that I can remove a few lug nuts with the valve turned off at the compressor. Reduces down to 3/4" just before the regulator/filter.
Ok, sorry but that system makes zero sense to me. The piping goes nowhere. All you've done is create a large manifold AT the compressor. The o.p. was asking about piping a shop, not just at the compressor.
I can appreciate a water drain, but that seems excessive just to drain water. It doesn't seem to serve any other purpose, at least in my eyes.
I could be wrong (probably am) sorry for the crits if that is the case and ya explain it here then.
The point of it was to condense the water out of the air which it does quite nicely. I currently have 100' of 3/8" hose with HVLP fittings and connectors and will upgrade at some point to a hose reel. This sets approx 10' away from my lift (the electrical cable you see at the top is what powers the lift) so there is no need for me to have additional piping. In the event that it is needed at some point in the future I will T in below the regulator, run another piece up & take it where it is needed. As far as being excessive perhaps it is, but it serves it's purpose well & I don't have to worry about ruining air tools with water or having the ability to run them. This is also overkill considering the heaviest thing I own is 3500lbs but it's better to have enough for future needs.
Then you haven't you looked at my garages.. I have 300 feet of 1” black pipe main air lines running in and between my garages. Besides providing additional capacity to my two 80 gallon receivers, the 1” lines provide less pressure drop and better flow rates in my long runs. Is it really necessary? No, I'd imagine 3/4” would suffice; but I like to over-sizing things.
I guess 1 inch over 50 foot is a personal thing.
Copper sure will work and look real pretty.
But have you priced it lately?
There is a reason guys are pulling live wires off the poles to sell as scrap.
The black vs galvanized argument is never ending.
Besides cost the arguments go like this:
The galvanized guys say it will not rust.
The black pipe guys are following the lead of the natural gas guys that will not allow galvanized because they are afraid of some little flakes coming off and gumming something up.
Of course, natural gas is a whole lot drier than shop air.
Copper sure will work and look real pretty.
But have you priced it lately?
There is a reason guys are pulling live wires off the poles to sell as scrap.
The black vs galvanized argument is never ending.
Besides cost the arguments go like this:
The galvanized guys say it will not rust.
The black pipe guys are following the lead of the natural gas guys that will not allow galvanized because they are afraid of some little flakes coming off and gumming something up.
Of course, natural gas is a whole lot drier than shop air.
ddawg16
Well-known member
So...I wonder how long it would take for black pipe to rust through from the inside?
I have installed and used black pipes for air lines in manufacturing plants for 40 years. And never experienced one rust through. With the filters and refrigerant air dyer I have in my air system I never have moisture in my air. I cannot believe that I'll ever see any black pipes rusted through in my garages.
e-tek
Well-known member
OCG - Do you think I'm the only one who hasn't looked at your garages???
I just didn't blow them up, zoom in on your pipes, measure them on the screen, transcribe them and do the conversion calculation. I would have, but I don't know what I just typed - much less do it for real!!!
:Anyways, glad you agree with me - 1" is not needed.
Nealcrenshaw
Well-known member
Hey OCG What's the 80 Gallon receiver? I never seen or heard anything about that? Could you post a pic of it?
Skyking1992
Well-known member
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An "80 Gallon receiver" is another way of saying 80 gallon tank. And OCG did post a picture of his compressor, tank, and dryer.
Palmetto
Well-known member
Sorry to hijack, but something just crossed my mind that kind of fits in on this thread.
What about running pipe underground? I was thinking of running an air line from my shop to my new well house. I have to trench to the shop for water supply, and thought about dropping an air line in the same trench as the water line. It couldnt hurt to have air in the well shed.
what kind of pipe have you run underground?
Has anyone used PEX tubing for air?
What about running pipe underground? I was thinking of running an air line from my shop to my new well house. I have to trench to the shop for water supply, and thought about dropping an air line in the same trench as the water line. It couldnt hurt to have air in the well shed.
what kind of pipe have you run underground?
Has anyone used PEX tubing for air?
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timgr
Well-known member
I presume the main reason for overhead piping is so you can get the water out. With underground pipe, the condensate would pool in the pipe.
Industrial Concepts
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
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We provide complete Finishing Rooms to Manufacturing & Body Shops. The problem is not rusting through, although I have seen in one instance this happen, the pipe starts to build up inside as if they were on a daily ham & egg diet for 60 years. Changes of that happening to the hobbiest are slim.
Black pipe has rust inside when you pick it up from the supply house.
ddawg16
Well-known member
That is where I think copper would be the best choice....you know, the the rusting from the 'outside'.....
Underground is the one place I feel PCV is OK.
No sunlight to degrade it.
Cover it with sand and then bury it and it has pressure pushing in on it to offset any internal burst pressure.
Your need in a well house will hopefully be pretty rare, so a shut off valve to put it under pressure only when needed would makes sense.
No sunlight to degrade it.
Cover it with sand and then bury it and it has pressure pushing in on it to offset any internal burst pressure.
Your need in a well house will hopefully be pretty rare, so a shut off valve to put it under pressure only when needed would makes sense.
e-tek
Well-known member
hey Tony,
It's been beaten to death on these forums - but, APPARENTLY, the galvanized coating can come off inside the pipe (even Plumbers won't use it much). As for Copper - while many guys have used it with success, (and this is only my opinion - you learn to say that here!), copper doesn't condense water in the air as well and it's easier to add lines, etc., when needed.