Pit

[Case IH]

Me and my dad were thinking that it wouldn't be that hard to put a under-vehicle pit in a pre existing garage we thought all you would have to do is cut out the concrete and dig down 6-6 1/2 feet pour a quickcrete floor and have sheet metal sides and a rung latter to get in and out..Is this feesable we thought so and are really considering it if we can figure out the details

 

[60vett]

Need to reinforce the sides with more than sheet metal.

 

[Case IH]

Maybe 1/4-1/2in plate maybe

 

[touchdowntodd]

ive heard of a LOT of insurance issues.. but i may be hearing wrong...

sides would have to be concrete as well i would think

 

[jmh21586]

I helped build one for a quicklude. A lot more work than you would think. Had to cut out the concrete where it was going to go. Dig out the dirt. Poured a floor that also was the footing for the side walls. Layed block for side walls and core filled.

Then you have to figure out some sort of cover system for when not in use.

 

[DaleK]

Real issue is going to be drainage. You won't want to have to scoop all the melting snow and drips that end up in there all winter, never mind if there's an existing drainage problem under there adding to it.

 

[scooby074]

I gather a lift isnt an option? A used lift might be easier/cheaper in the long run.

Plus pits can cause some insurance and building code nightmares. All have been filled in here as a result/

 

[Case IH]

I never thought of using block for the walls thats a really good ideaand as for cutting the hole in the concrete i would just borrow one of the gas concrete saws from work (they have about 6) i was thinking some sort of grate that just layed over the hole and was flush with the floor

 

[tcianci]

The insurance issues would have to do with guards to keep anyone from falling into the pit and then proper ventilation and drainage. The ventilation is important form 2 standpoints...1) the pit can collect flammable fumes, sort of like the bilge on a boat and 2) Carbon monoxide is heavier than air so it could collect in the pit and make you pass out and head for that big garage in the sky without warning.

 

[Case IH]

as for insurance It would be in a bigger shop that is not attached to the house and is used as a business i dont know if that makes a differance and how would anybody find out about it??.............by the way the ceilings are too low for a lift

 

[gc11090]

Do a search, there are several threads on this topic with very detailed responses. When building a pit it is going to cost about as much as installing a lift, if you do it yourself. You need to add drainage, ventilation, reinforcement for the floor above, a sturdy cover, and a way to get in and out. Once your in the pit it is a hassle to get out to get the tools you need. Also they are prone to collecting toxic gases and watter. maybe look into a cheaper lift and see if it fits your budget, some start as low as $1200.

 

[Case IH]

Well my grandparents just tore down an old barn so cement blocks are free and we are pretty skilled at contruction so we would do most of it ourselves but how would we venelate it?? just some fans with duct work or what??

 

[ishiboo]

Well my grandparents just tore down an old barn so cement blocks are free and we are pretty skilled at contruction so we would do most of it ourselves but how would we venelate it?? just some fans with duct work or what??

Sounds like a lot of work.

I'd use an ignition-protected fan... perhaps two 250CFM bilge blowers. Most pits I have seen have a steel edge around the outside, both to help prevent the car from falling in, and prevent liquids and heavy gasses from all just draining in. You can slant the whole pit to one side, and use a small utility pump in a mini "sump" on one end to drain. I would make sure it is not automatic, as if you had a gas leak and it automatically kicked in and was not ignition protected, you'd have a nice explosion and sure death in the pit.

The edge walls as have already been mentioned need to be structural to support the slab above and pressure from the dirt on the sides. I'd do a pour with rebar.

I think when all is said and done, it would be cheaper to raise the roof rafters in a part of the building or the whole roof than to build it... I think adding up a couple things and your time is only a third the actual work/costs involved

 

[walrus]

I've seen many pits, never seen one with ventilation although you could easy blow yourself up or die from lack of oxygen. Explosion proof lighting is a must. Common sense would apply big time if you're going to build and work in one. if the car catches on fire while you are in there, heaven help ya. Generally they use 3/8 steel, sticking up about 3 inches around the perimeter of the pit.

 

[Case IH]

We know a guy that dose epoxy floors so i figured we could have him make it water tite and as for the slope that would be helpful.

-Do you really think that it would be cheaper to raise the rafters and buy a lift than dig a hole, lay some bricks and ventilate it??

 

[touchdowntodd]

id MUCH rather have a lift.. pit still doesnt help with suspension work, etc... and is just plain dangerous to me...

your call, but for all the work and time and decent lift can be had for a decent price

 

[Case IH]

Thanks for all your help here we rreallly apreciate it...any more advice would be gratly apreciated

 

[scooby074]

Used as a business you say...

EEK, that means you HAVE to meet all applicable codes. Both for structure, ventilation and electrical. Have you ever priced explosion proof ventilation and electrical?

As i said, around here it just became too expensive to meet code with a pit. Plus there are much more benefits to a lift.

If your going to go this far, id look into raising the roof or building something off the back with higher ceilings.

 

[Case IH]

Well the Shop is my dads cabinet shop but but this would be in front of one of the garrage doors that is sectioned off for us to use on our stock car and our own vehicles so now it wouldnt be for business just in a cabinet shop

 

[c39er]

Built mine-has drains/ventilation, block walls heavy steel grating for a cover ect. Cost about $700.00 back in 91 when I built the shop. Did a lot of prep work for good drainage as the pit was lower than the water table. It's always 100% dry. Has a 4" drain and 200' of drain pipe to carry water away. I do have other above ground lifts too in the shop. I do like the pit for my real heavy trucks. I wanted to build one and did. It was a fun build. I don't use it a lot though.

 

[Case IH]

Cool thanks for the pics... Your pit looks great

 

[tatra]

probably have to have possible in/egress at both ends with a vehicle in place in case of fire etc..........ladders probably against code.................if you guys work with wood, i would look at raising the roof and getting a hoist...........dopping a trans would be a pain as you would have to drop a jack in there and then hoist it all out..........and any pit i have worked in, [ a few] , always seems tight for room..........fast lube palces it makes sense..........for general mtc and repair, not so much........

 

[patrick66]

You will run into problems later on with a pit. First off, if you have homeowner's insurance and your carrier knows nothing about your pit, and you or someone else gets injured as a result of activity around that pit, YOU are responsible for any costs, not your carrier.

Second, if you have tools stolen, or you have a fire in your shop and the fire/police come out and see that pit, they'll ask questions you may not want to answer.

Third, the safety issues previous posters have brought up.

Lastly, when you go to sell that property, that pit is part of the garage, and has to be in the description of the property, since it's a permanent modification. Most locales require a permit to install something like that. You will run into problems at sale time with something like this in your shop.

So, yes, I'll bet money that raising the roof and installing a two- or four-post lift will benefit you in more ways than that pit could ever hope to.

Your decision, of course.

 

[Case IH]

Ya we have decided to hold off on it for now for alot of the above reasons and we just dont wanna put that much effort into it.

 

[c39er]

I wont have any issues with my pit. I have had it for 20 years. I don't need to be guided by the "Nanny Police" either as I use good common safety sense as I have done for the past 50 years of my life. I'm the only one using MY shop equipment. Gee, I will have to answer some questions asked by the police/fire- Nope. When I sell I will fill it up with dirt. Life is good!

 

[Case IH]

i completly agree with c39er just use common sence and it will get you far and the filling it up with dirt thing GENIUS!!

 

[PAToyota]

It would be in a bigger shop that is not attached to the house and is used as a business

Used as a business? OSHA would have a fit if it wasn't fully up to code.

 

[scooby074]

Well the Shop is my dads cabinet shop but but this would be in front of one of the garrage doors that is sectioned off for us to use on our stock car and our own vehicles so now it wouldnt be for business just in a cabinet shop

Ahh i understand. That may change things as your not technically a automotive repair shop but the dangers regarding a low point for vapour collection and the necessary protections remain.

Its also not beyond the possibilities for an insurance guy to give your dad grief for having it in the same premises. Theyve been known to freak over something as innocent as a welder... so a pit might really throw them over the edge Before breaking ground a call to your dads insurance might be worth it to save future headaches.

Edit: I see your not going with the pit . Good choice. A used hoist would be a much better investment IMHO. Plus you can remove it at any time.

 

[c39er]

You know as we are getting into it. I think if you told your insurance agent about a lift in the shop they might not even like that. There are big risks with a lift too. What about someone in the garage close to the lift and while it was being operated something slipped broke ect? OH BOY BIG claims to be made because of a car falling off the lift and maining/ killing a bystander? Earthquake happens and shakes a car off the lift hurting someone or causing a fire to start because of a split open gas tank ect.
I'm just mentioning this stuff because now days insurance companies are very likely not to insure if they find anything to be just a bit too much of a risk to their bottom line.
I just say use good common safe sense and be careful in what you do and all will be good.

 

[HGFS]

I have installed two pits into two houses I have built in Australia. When I sold those properties I never had any problems mainly because it helped sell them. When I used to have big parties I could put the covers on and they were out of sight, this can not be done with a hoist.

Common sense is the word here...it is recommended that the guard on a 4 or 5 inch grinder is not removed, how many of us know that but remove it because it is in the way?

Your nose is good tool in a pit. If you are running an engine and exhaust fumes are the hazard...common sense tells you to put an air line in the pit. If you smell petrol use a blow vac to blow fresh air into the pit.

I have a mate who had council inspector come round to look at an extension he made to his garage. He was questioned on the pit, my mate told him it was a wine cellar. The inspector replied with....that's ok then as long as you are not using to work on cars.

One more thing, they are f"£$%^*G good exercise when you dont have a tool box in that pit.

 

[mad57]

My good friends have had pit for over 30 yrs in a 2 bay shop and do auto for a living they have made a ton of cash with it and use common sense while working it. if you plan ahead and dont plan on selling the place anytime soon go for it.they do confese that its hard to get in and out of when you get older, they also put steel strips on the all for magnetic tool holders and leave most spare tools just down there, and they do have ventalation fan as well sparkproof exhaust boat fan. good luck with your choice. might be an easy option for a 4 post lift out side back of the shop with on of those steel car ports with extended height legs and youll be suprised if you run a good salamander heater in just a tin covered shed how warm it will stay.

 

[Case IH]

for our stock car we have decided to just use jack stands and a creeper for now but mabey eventually we will put a pit or a lift in eventualluy but for now we will stay oldschool

 

[Bobber]

the insurance issues would have to do with guards to keep anyone from falling into the pit and then proper ventilation and drainage. the ventilation is important form 2 standpoints...1) the pit can collect flammable fumes, sort of like the bilge on a boat and 2) <strike>carbon monoxide is heavier than air so it could collect in the pit and make you pass out and head for that big garage in the sky without warning.</strike>

" Carbon monoxide (CO), also called carbonous oxide, is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas which is slightly lighter than air. It is highly toxic to humans and animals in higher quantities."


Although lighter than air Carbon monoxide (CO) is extremely dangerous and can cause brain damage even in small quantities.



Read this post twice (if you value your life )

Very sage advice and worth much more than he's charged you for it.

 

[c39er]

Did you know lots of people get CO poisoning just from being on boats? On the party boats down in the SW people sit/hang on to the swim step as the party boat floats around. CO over comes the person and they let go fall off and drown. I was on a boat up on the bridge steering the boat-not a boater at all but the other 2 went down below to get some food/drinks-they never came back up. They both were over come by CO. Fumes were rolling up over the back of the boat and into the cabin-38' boat. It got them. The dingy boat had been diverting exhaust up and into the boat. I went down and saw them. Mouth to mouth /chest compressions for a 1/2 hour on both-coast guard and 3 helicopter flights to Harbour View Med Center. Into De-Compression. They survived. I got a Hero's award in Wash DC. I know plenty about CO poisoning. It can sneak up on you quick. I respect the dangers of it.

 

[Case IH]

WOW that is amazing what you did and i think you know what your talking about since you have a pit and have experienced working in one

 

[Bobber]

Did you know lots of people get CO poisoning just from being on boats? On the party boats down in the SW people sit/hang on to the swim step as the party boat floats around. CO over comes the person and they let go fall off and drown. I was on a boat up on the bridge steering the boat-not a boater at all but the other 2 went down below to get some food/drinks-they never came back up. They both were over come by CO. Fumes were rolling up over the back of the boat and into the cabin-38' boat. It got them. The dingy boat had been diverting exhaust up and into the boat. I went down and saw them. Mouth to mouth /chest compressions for a 1/2 hour on both-coast guard and 3 helicopter flights to Harbour View Med Center. Into De-Compression. They survived. I got a Hero's award in Wash DC. I know plenty about CO poisoning. It can sneak up on you quick. I respect the dangers of it.

I remember this incident:

" AL UNSER, SR.
BOATING SAFETY CELEBRITY ADVOCATE ​

The four-time Indianapolis 500 winner frequently had escaped death on the racetrack.
But seven years ago, Al Unser, Sr. almost died from carbon monoxide poisoning on
his Lake Powell, Arizona, boat.
As he and some friends prepared to head out on the lake, a storm arose and the wind
loosened anchors and ropes. Al started the engines so he could maneuver the boat
away from the nearby rocks, but one of the ropes caught in the right propeller. As soon
as he stabilized and re- anchored the vessel, Al dove beneath it to free the rope. It was
badly tangled so he decided to get a knife to complete the job. Inhaling as he surfaced
in the airspace below the house platform, he grabbed a knife and dove again to cut
the rope. Meanwhile, on deck, the generator was running. Little did Al know that
exhaust from the generator was vented into the airspace and that he was breathing
dangerously high concentrations of carbon monoxide into his lungs as he repeatedly
dove and resurfaced.
To this day, Al doesn’t know how he finally got himself out from under the platform. By
then he was only semi-conscious. His friends took him to the hospital, and he was
placed on oxygen for the next several hours. No one knew if he would make it.
This lucky survivor, unlike many recreational boaters, was well aware of the hazards of
Carbon Monoxide poisoning following a lifetime of Formula I racing. But, as he says,
he never thought it could happen to him.
Since the accident, Al never takes chances with his or his passengers’ lives. He
encourages boaters to know where CO can accumulate in and around their boats,
and to be aware of the various sources of Carbon Monoxide. He reminds boaters that
CO poisoning is preventable.

 

[bazzateer]

You will run into problems later on with a pit.

I've known many people with pits and not a single one has ever "run into problems" with them. Perhaps the word may would be more appropriate than will?

 

[Grumpy365]

We know a guy that dose epoxy floors so i figured we could have him make it water tite.

I think the explosion proof stuff is bs, BUT this^^^ is wrong.

Concrete is porous and when you epoxy over it without a proper vapor barrier (and i am not talking about Thompson water sealer or any stuff you buy at home depot, but a true vapor barrier) the epoxy just bubbles up and comes off .
To install a vapor barrier, you have to bead blast the concrete and apply the vapor barrier then epoxy over the top. And you can generally buy the best lift on the market for what it cost to have it done.