Planning for EV charging?

[andyvh1959]

As much as I and many of us love our fossil fuel engines, the future is clearly going electric. So planning for electric vehicle (EV) charging at home is something to consider in a modern version of our garages. I'm working in the 200 amp main breaker panel of my attached garage to power the sub panel in my new detached shop garage.

Since I have the main panel open and the wall open to route the cables in the wall, I'm thinking its a good time to wire in an outlet for an EV charging station. I plan to sell the house within ten years, and providing an EV charging station may be a new selling point for homes in the future. NEMA 14-50 outlets are common to RV plug in connections, so to wire it into my attached garage as a EV charging outlet only requires the outlet, and the 50 amp breaker in the main panel, and there is space available in the main breaker panel.

 

[gtae07]

I did the same when I was wiring in my workshop. “While I have the wall open...” Figured if I ever had a need to bring the welder up there, I’d have a place I could run it.

Go ahead and do it.

Looking strongly at an EV for when my old Focus finally bites the dust...

 

[yeldogt]

I ran a 50amp --- this allows me to load shed the generator. To get the max 48amp on the Tesla charger you need 60amp ... that's just an overall problem with a generator as the load shed relays are 50 amp max.

Many people only run 30amp .... a standard 110 plug will get you 40miles in 8 hours. It's rare to be empty and have to fully charge over night. Most people "top up" and my friend with 30amp never has any issues. I did 50amp as it was all new

 

[ericm]

Car chargers also commonly come with 6-50 plugs. Often there's an option of either 14-50 or 6-50.

I put a 50a circuit in the garage with a 6-50 to run a welder now and car charger in the future. It'll be a while before there's an electric car that needs the charger and by then the shop will be done and the welder will move there.

 

[jeepxj]

50a is plenty for a single EV circuit. 14-50 is the popular one.

is it a 2 car garage? might want to consider 2 circuits if you really wanna go all out. a 50a and a 30a for example.

edit: also could be an option to just toss a sub panel into the garage space then deal with specifics later.

 

[nadogail]

I installed a 30 Amp circuit for my son's Nissan Leaf. Two pole breaker, 10 Gauge NM Cable and a receptacle on the wall; Very Easy.

 

[Stuff]

Some issues are that there are few standards. Some need the receptacle in the front, others in the rear so see if you can make it flexible.

If you are looking at adding "value" then adding a generator interlock kit with generator inlet mounted outside would also be attractive to some.

 

[Badgerstate]

My garage is already wired for a 220 outlet. Ive currently got an industrial air conditioner hooked up to it.
When the day finally comes in to trade my gas car in on an EV, Im ready.

 

[jkeyser14]

I have NEMA 14-50's everywhere and use them for charging my Tesla.

 

[mike93lx]

Some issues are that there are few standards. Some need the receptacle in the front, others in the rear so see if you can make it flexible.

side wall right in the center solves that problem easily.

 

[Kaizen]

If future proofing remember many envision the ability to have the car power the house as well as having room for power wall batteries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stuart in MN]

I agree that being able to charge an EV will be a good selling point, but who knows what the standard for EV charging will be in ten years...since your panel is in the garage, it will be pretty straightforward to add a circuit in the future. If you don't have plans to buy an EV yourself I'd leave it for now.

 

[jeepxj]

I agree that being able to charge an EV will be a good selling point, but who knows what the standard for EV charging will be in ten years...since your panel is in the garage, it will be pretty straightforward to add a circuit in the future. If you don't have plans to buy an EV yourself I'd leave it for now.

14-50 is the go to. I dont see that changing in a long long time. plus you can take out the 14-50 and hard wire any kinda permanently mounted charger with the line size you put in.

 

[mike93lx]

I agree that being able to charge an EV will be a good selling point, but who knows what the standard for EV charging will be in ten years...since your panel is in the garage, it will be pretty straightforward to add a circuit in the future. If you don't have plans to buy an EV yourself I'd leave it for now.

Ev's aren't going to "require" anything bigger than 50a. Faster charging tech will come, but that will be a nice to have. Plugs/receptacles can always be changed

 

[andyvh1959]

Thanks all for the input, some as I expected and some better ideas. I have a 30 amp outlet on one side of the 2-car garage, that I may be able to upgrade to a 14-50 setup. Its on the center of the RH wall. If I add a 14-50 centered on the LH wall then the 2-car attached garage is EV ready.

Interesting point to use an EV as a power outage backup power source into the main panel. Is that really being done?

 

[jeepxj]

its called vehicle to grid generically. in order for backup to be a thing they will need to come up with a means of disconnect between your main panel and the transformer that communicates with the car.

V2G is really meant for peak shaving. charge your car up to 90% at night on cheap power. use it in daytime when its expensive

 

[Dan_G_Tiger]

Recently completed my new garage. I put plenty of thought into what future use of the garage space might be. I have 60amp service to the detached garage. Installed 2 outlets that can be used for my welder and 220v air compressor. If the time comes we leave this place it may be an attractive option for the next owners if they want/have an electric vehicle.

I say go for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[dcg9381]

My electrician told me the same thing - that you need to wire for 60A due to the way that Tesla can pull from an outlet (48A continuous).

I know Tesla has an option up from that, probably hardwired, I believe 100A.

If I was wiring your garage, I'd pull 90A into the garage sub-panel and use 60A capable wire to the 14-50 plug.

 

[jeepxj]

My electrician told me the same thing - that you need to wire for 60A due to the way that Tesla can pull from an outlet (48A continuous).

I know Tesla has an option up from that, probably hardwired, I believe 100A.

If I was wiring your garage, I'd pull 90A into the garage sub-panel and use 60A capable wire to the 14-50 plug.

to clarify a bit:

because EV's pull a steady draw, the breaker rating is derated to 80% of the rating. so a 60a breaker is good for 48a.

the model S and X were sold with dual onboard chargers. these would pull 80a continuous and require a 100A breaker size.

upsizing wire never hurt anything but the wallet.

30a is more than enough for the vast majority of american commuters. at 240v-30a you're getting 21-22MPH charging. so in a 10 hour charge it will be over 200 miles of charge.

that said the popular receptacle is the 14-50.

the mobile charger coming with teslas right now maxes out at 32a. the HPWC is the hard wired unit and the current gen 3 unit maxes out at 48a.

 

[AntonLargiader]

If you have no plans for getting an EV soon, I'd just run 60A cable to a box and cover it. Or do nothing at all, if what you're doing is still relatively easy to do later on. Ten years is a long time in this technology.

 

[crazybrit]

If you don't have plans to buy an EV yourself I'd leave it for now.

+1.

I'm not convinced that anything you add today will generate you *significant* additional cash at sale 10 years from now.

Bathrooms and kitchens sell houses.

Sent from my MI PAD 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Metal-Marc]

I agree that being able to charge an EV will be a good selling point, but who knows what the standard for EV charging will be in ten years...since your panel is in the garage, it will be pretty straightforward to add a circuit in the future. If you don't have plans to buy an EV yourself I'd leave it for now.

This.

Unless you need it now, don't worry about it.

 

[dcg9381]

\
Bathrooms and kitchens sell houses.

Agree, unless you're a GJ member.. In which case, subpanels, garage sqft, and available power sell houses.

 

[crazybrit]

Agree, unless you're a GJ member.. In which case, subpanels, garage sqft, and available power sell houses.

I've spent hours and hours getting my shop setup just how I want it. 3x 240V circuits, 2x 20A 120v circuits. Lots of LED lighting. Custom oak bench tops for the existing cabinets etc.

The reality is that the next buyer may not care one hoot and may rip it all out. Lots of people are turning garages into ADUs where I live.

You can't predict the future.

 

[jeepxj]

Agree, unless you're a GJ member.. In which case, subpanels, garage sqft, and available power sell houses.

can we have a moment to complain that realtors hardly ever take photos of the garage or shop in a meaningful way? good lord I see 4 garage doors. show me whats inside already.

 

[Metal-Marc]

can we have a moment to complain that realtors hardly ever take photos of the garage or shop in a meaningful way? good lord I see 4 garage doors. show me whats inside already.

I agree. Who cares what the kitchen looks like. : :

 

[drivesitfar]

I know why there are missing or non existent pics of insides of garages. Sellers want their privacy is main reason especially if their stuff is still inside it so they asked not to have any taken. Another obvious one is most homeless people are given a cell phone with access to pics which is another. I’m sure there are more reasons but not usually a realtors fault.

Now no flyers could be a realtors fault but some homes go thru 50 flyers or more each day whether taken buy actual buyers or tossed by upset neighbor.

Just my 3 cents.

Now back to how to cross the USA (or Canada) in your ev car.

 

[jeepxj]

I know why there are missing or non existent pics of insides of garages. Sellers want their privacy is main reason especially if their stuff is still inside it so they asked not to have any taken. Another obvious one is most homeless people are given a cell phone with access to pics which is another. I’m sure there are more reasons but not usually a realtors fault.

Now no flyers could be a realtors fault but some homes go thru 50 flyers or more each day whether taken buy actual buyers or tossed by upset neighbor.

Just my 3 cents.

Now back to how to cross the USA (or Canada) in your ev car.

they take photos of the rest of the house?


plenty easy to cross both now a days. pick your interstate.

here's 1400 miles in my model 3. yes it takes longer than just filling up the 300 gallons in the semi and iron butting it. but my bladder lasts about 2-2.5 hours anymore.
https://i.imgur.com/k7Z5JuLl.png

https://i.imgur.com/MslIjl6.png

 

[mike93lx]

I know why there are missing or non existent pics of insides of garages. Sellers want their privacy is main reason especially if their stuff is still inside it so they asked not to have any taken. Another obvious one is most homeless people are given a cell phone with access to pics which is another. I’m sure there are more reasons but not usually a realtors fault.

Now no flyers could be a realtors fault but some homes go thru 50 flyers or more each day whether taken buy actual buyers or tossed by upset neighbor.

Just my 3 cents.

Now back to how to cross the USA (or Canada) in your ev car.

You think realtors don't take pictures of garages because of homeless people? Huh?

 

[930dreamer]

I agree. Who cares what the kitchen looks like. : :

I have a house where my shop is that I've only been inside a hand full of times.

 

[dcg9381]

Thing about a 14-50 outlet (typical for EV) - can be used for welders, RVs, lots of fun stuff... So I'd think about it as "do I need 240V" versus "will I ever own an EV".

 

[dcg9381]

I agree. Who cares what the kitchen looks like. : :

I do, if the kitchen is inside of the shop...

 

[drivesitfar]

Thieves Is more the reason or owners privacy. As a realtor I used to preview homes especially garages so I could call my clients with information. Also FYI all realtors like doctors or mechanics or whatever profession don’t do the same level of work.

How hard is it really to charge a car at your hone now? I’m hearing most cars can charge on 110 so how did realtors or property sales get started.

 

[bwringer]

Thing about a 14-50 outlet (typical for EV) - can be used for welders, RVs, lots of fun stuff... So I'd think about it as "do I need 240V" versus "will I ever own an EV".

Kinda my take on it. 240V outlets are extremely handy for lots of things. This is a no-brainer.

Run big fat wires since you're in there anyway and make your best guess as to the outlet. Much easier to change the outlet style later if needed for a welder, compressor, EV charger, flying saucer charger, etc. than to pull new wires.

Effect on home value is likely near zero, but it could make a nice sweetener.

 

[drivesitfar]

I just added a few new 240 plugs in our garage that can be used for space heaters until we buy an electric car. I doubt it would be a huge sales boost to a homes value but I like having it.

I also used 10 gauge wire.

Has anybody traveled across the entire USA and want to mention how much planning they had to do going across remote areas?

 

[dcg9381]

The reality is that the next buyer may not care one hoot and may rip it all out. Lots of people are turning garages into ADUs where I live.

You can't predict the future.

I agree with you there on particular configuration, but having a main with 50A or 90A in a garage solves a lot of problems for me. I can re-do your outlets.... Even as a ADU, having that kind of power gives you a lot of flexibility. In some places, it's worth a lot of money in permit and "professional" (licensed) electrician hassle.

But yea, houses sell on the kitchen more often... We're all an odd demographic.

 

[Showkey]

Thieves Is more the reason or owners privacy. As a realtor I used to preview homes especially garages so I could call my clients with information. Also FYI all realtors like doctors or mechanics or whatever profession don’t do the same level of work.

How hard is it really to charge a car at your hone now? I’m hearing most cars can charge on 110 so how did realtors or property sales get started.

As mentioned : Many people only run 30amp .... a standard 110 plug will get you 40miles in 8 hours

 

[Noltz]

I pulled 6-6-6 to a 14-50 plug in the garage, 50A breaker. #6 so I can go to a 60A breaker and direct wire a Tesla charger if thats what I end up buying, or just use the 14-50 and a Level 2 charger.

Now I'm considering adding a Sub panel because I think I want a lathe and mill out there. So ya... go oversize.

 

[Denwood]

As mentioned : Many people only run 30amp .... a standard 110 plug will get you 40miles in 8 hours

I've become a bit more educated on EV tech and charging since purchasing one last November. I've also wired a few 240 receptacles since

First of all, this tool is the best I've used with respect to real world charging performance and prediction. Most EVs are very close with respect to miles/kWh, however Tesla is generally the highest as they are quite efficient. A Model 3 is about 14% more efficient than our 2018 LEAF. In other words, less charging time for the same mileage.

https://evcompare.io/charging-calculator/

Any OEM charger designed to run at 120V will generally top out at 12amps, as this represents the 80% for continuous load on a 15 amp circuit. However, many OEM level 2 (as in 240V) chargers will require something in the range of 28-35 amps at 240 V and will likely require the Nema 14-50 receptacle.

If you only run 30 amps to the shop, (which is my max), then you can purchase an EVSE (EV charger) that runs at various voltages. I have one running 16 amps into the car at 240V, so 8 hrs gives me 100 miles of range. Even with a 30 amp garage service, I was blowing fuses on one 240V leg due to overheating in the cartridge holder...now ok after cleaning and re torquing connections. Continuous EV charging will test your wiring!! I charge only a few hours per week as we don't drive a ton right now due to Covid restrictions.

If you can do a Nema 14-50, you'll have most bases covered. I put in a Nema 6-20 to enable charging 16amps@240V

Charging at 240V is a bit more efficient as you're charging for less time. The overhead loss (as high as 250 watts) is incurred for less time at 240V vs 120V charging...hence you're getting a bit more buzz for your kW buck

 

[mike93lx]

I pulled 6-6-6 to a 14-50 plug in the garage, 50A breaker. #6 so I can go to a 60A breaker and direct wire a Tesla charger if thats what I end up buying, or just use the 14-50 and a Level 2 charger.

Now I'm considering adding a Sub panel because I think I want a lathe and mill out there. So ya... go oversize.

Hopefully you have a neutral as well. 14-50 is a dual voltage plug and you'll likely want a neutral at the sub too