Planning garage/shop. looking for input

[kert]

I'm in the planning stage of a new garage and looking for advice.

Must Haves:
woodworking area 20'Wx 30'D plus or minus
Area with high ceiling for 4-post lift
9'-10' ceiling everywhere else
Room for car and full-size pickup
Insulation

Want, but not absolutely necessary:
Attic Storage
finished walls/ceiling
In-floor heating
supplemental wood heating

I've been thinking 30x60, and here's a floorplan I've been playing with in sketchup. Please excuse my sketchup skills.

I'm expecting that with a 30' span that I'll have to have posts inside. If I could eliminate the posts using wood I-beams and going to 28' depth, I'd consider it. I don't think less than 28' will work for me though. Alternatively, if I could get away with a post or 2 more or less in line with the lift and a post in the middle of the parking area toward the back of the garage (about where the dimension lines cross), it would be OK.

I want something that looks distinctive, but not modern. It will be comparable in footprint to the main house, and about the same distance from the road. I'm thinking gambrel roof. Haven't really decided on roofing or siding material, but would like something attractive and low maintenance.

I'm not quite sure what to do about ceilings in the lift area. One thought I had was collar ties about 4' up as ceiling joists. I'm not sure how this would fit into a gambrel roof.

I'm thinking I need to talk to a structural engineer at some point, but I'd like to have pretty firm plans first.

I will be doing nearly everything myself (with some help) except for the excavation, and concrete.

I appreciate any input you can provide. I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions.

 

[case464]

engineered trusses can span much farther than 30 ft

 

[stingry]

Stay away from support posts, they can be a major PITA!! As said above, trusses are the way to go. Gambrel roof, 30' clearspan, attic storage, raised area for lift, all can be done with trusses. Here's how I provided a raised ceiling for a lift:


View media item 7636

That is a 40' span by the way!

Cheers
Steve

 

[kert]

engineered trusses can span much farther than 30 ft

I'm just not sure that storage trusses fit into my budget.

 

[shawnspeed]

Are you planning a pole or stick(2x4/6) construction???the local lumber yards( around here )sell polebarn kits in that size very resonable....all are freespan...Some 60' or more in span. Also, don't skimp on the 2" foam under the slab for insulation for in slab heat. I would also reccomend adding a footer area where you are going to put the hoist, with the radiant lines routed away from where the hoist will be attached(no drilling thru your lines to anchor the hoist).Also think about anything you may want to install after the floor is in that may need to be lagged to the floor & plan accordingly.You may want to consider water if allowed in your area , for washing up before going in the house, or for washing the car ...or brewing a cup of joe some of the things I did, or thought about doing in my shop were, a universal tool post, (2" reciver hitch sunk into a 24"x24" footer in the concrete floor, has a dimond plate cover) used for portable tools such as tubing bender, vice, english wheel, manual tire changer,ect. I also thought about putting a I beam build fixture , with pull points (for fixing bent racecars), that had an under ground, ground for the welder. think about things that you may need in your woodshop...I am more a metal guy, but dad was a Pattern maker /cabinet maker , so maybee dust collection & finishing areas are more in order... oh yes..don't forget the flamable cabinet, your insurace company will like that item...I also thought about fire suppression (insurance company friendly) but it was another place to spend money...hope it helps...Shawn

 

[Will67]

Have you checked with your:
Building/planing depts
Home owners association?

Some have restrictions based attached vs detached, impervious surface area coverage, set backs from fences (side and back maybe different), and total height. I would know all of these before doing much more. Better to know what you can and can not do now than later.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm in the planning stage of a new garage and looking for advice.

Must Haves:
woodworking area 20'Wx 30'D plus or minus
Area with high ceiling for 4-post lift
9'-10' ceiling everywhere else
Room for car and full-size pickup
Insulation

Want, but not absolutely necessary:
Attic Storage
finished walls/ceiling
In-floor heating
supplemental wood heating

I've been thinking 30x60, and here's a floorplan I've been playing with in sketchup. Please excuse my sketchup skills.

I'm expecting that with a 30' span that I'll have to have posts inside. If I could eliminate the posts using wood I-beams and going to 28' depth, I'd consider it. I don't think less than 28' will work for me though. Alternatively, if I could get away with a post or 2 more or less in line with the lift and a post in the middle of the parking area toward the back of the garage (about where the dimension lines cross), it would be OK.

I appreciate any input you can provide. I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions.

I'm not sure what you want for overall ceiling height but I do see you want something "normal" over the wood working area and attic storage.

How much attic storage do you want or need?

Maybe consider this. Scissors trusses over the entire shop, it'll give extra room over the lift. Frame up an attic over the wood working area using engineered floor trusses. Run them perpendicular to the roof trusses and they will only have to span 21'6", give or take a few inches,according to your sketch up.
This will also give a ceiling to insulate the woodworking area to keep it warmer than the garage area during the winter. After the attic floor is built, you could continue with the wall up to the trusses and close off the storage area. This would keep you from looking at the "stuff" in storage and you wouldn't have to heat that area.


Basically, you'll be framing a room and attic inside your shop.


edited; for a bit more info...

I'm just not sure that storage trusses fit into my budget.

If you're on a fairly tight budget and having it built, using just one type of trusses should make it a little cheaper to build. The dividing wall, woodworking wall and attic storage could be done at a later time as funds allow.

 

[kert]

Are you planning a pole or stick(2x4/6) construction???the local lumber yards( around here )sell polebarn kits in that size very resonable....all are freespan...Some 60' or more in span. Also, don't skimp on the 2" foam under the slab for insulation for in slab heat. I would also reccomend adding a footer area where you are going to put the hoist, with the radiant lines routed away from where the hoist will be attached(no drilling thru your lines to anchor the hoist).Also think about anything you may want to install after the floor is in that may need to be lagged to the floor & plan accordingly.You may want to consider water if allowed in your area , for washing up before going in the house, or for washing the car ...or brewing a cup of joe some of the things I did, or thought about doing in my shop were, a universal tool post, (2" reciver hitch sunk into a 24"x24" footer in the concrete floor, has a dimond plate cover) used for portable tools such as tubing bender, vice, english wheel, manual tire changer,ect. I also thought about putting a I beam build fixture , with pull points (for fixing bent racecars), that had an under ground, ground for the welder. think about things that you may need in your woodshop...I am more a metal guy, but dad was a Pattern maker /cabinet maker , so maybee dust collection & finishing areas are more in order... oh yes..don't forget the flamable cabinet, your insurace company will like that item...I also thought about fire suppression (insurance company friendly) but it was another place to spend money...hope it helps...Shawn

I've been thinking stick built because I'm more familiar with it, it seems easier to insulate and finish walls. With what little research I've done, it seemed like by the time you tried to insulate and finish walls, post and beam wasn't any cheaper if at all.

I shouldn't need footings for the lift as long as my slab is thick enough in the lift area.

As far as a finishing room, I am hoping that is something that can wait. I'm a bit overwhelmed with things at the moment. It wouldn't be very hard to partition off an area at a later date.

I'd love to put a bathroom in, but I don't know how I could make the septic work without adding a second tank since my current tank is on the other side of the house and higher in elevation.

A flammable cabinet is worth considering, but easy to add later. It would probably be more for show than anything else. I'm not very good about putting things away.

 

[kert]

I'm not sure what you want for overall ceiling height but I do see you want something "normal" over the wood working area and attic storage.

Over the lift, I think I need 13-14.' Everywhere else, 9-10' should do. I have a couple tall vehicles ('99 F250 and '41 Chevy 1.5 Ton) that I'd like to be able to get on the lift from time to time.

How much attic storage do you want or need?

Need? None. Want? As much as I can get. I'm a pack-rat and I know it. Experience tells me that trying to fight it by having less space doesn't work. I'm thinking everywhere except over the lift, but not committed.

Maybe consider this. Scissors trusses over the entire shop, it'll give extra room over the lift. Frame up an attic over the wood working area using engineered floor trusses. Run them perpendicular to the roof trusses and they will only have to span 21'6", give or take a few inches,according to your sketch up.
This will also give a ceiling to insulate the woodworking area to keep it warmer than the garage area during the winter. After the attic floor is built, you could continue with the wall up to the trusses and close off the storage area. This would keep you from looking at the "stuff" in storage and you wouldn't have to heat that area.


Basically, you'll be framing a room and attic inside your shop.

I like this idea.

I'm also considering making the section with the lift (closest to the road) with a cathedral ceiling and gable roof and the rest gambrel. Would need a ridge beam and a post on the inside, but if I placed it relatively close to the lift, I would think it wouldn't be too obtrusive. Would still need to deal with the 30' span in the rest of the building though.

 

[hemiredneck]

30' can be a little shallow for a bay, especially for full size pickups. My 2500hd is 20' long, then add a workbench in front, it really eats up the space quick.

 

[Provincial]

hemiredneck is right.

 

[kert]

hemiredneck is right.

Unfortunately, I think that's the way it's going to be.

 

[kert]

Have you checked with your:
Building/planing depts
Home owners association?

Some have restrictions based attached vs detached, impervious surface area coverage, set backs from fences (side and back maybe different), and total height. I would know all of these before doing much more. Better to know what you can and can not do now than later.

I haven't checked with the county yet, but my previous experience has been that my county is quite hands-off. I will be going through the proper permitting process though.

Neighborhood isn't an issue. Though the Cable Co. seems to think they offer service to the cornfield adjacent to my property, but can't find my property.

 

[rburke65]

Hell, I have heard of companies offering 60' clear span trusses in garage builds. Not a problem.

 

[Nowater]

I built mine out of structural panels for the hurricane resistance. There is four inches of foam that hels keep out the Florida heat, plus, it is just about air tight, so I can air condition on those really hot days, even with the roll up door. I went 9'-4'' and would suggest go the full 10'. Trusses can do it if you stick build. I would suggest a 2 x 6 frame covered in plywood and then faced with Hardie panel. Insulate and then cover the inside with OSB. You will get a very strong wall, but check with local codes since I don't know where you live.

Put your receptacles more than 4' above the floor so a sheet of plywood sideways does not cover it. Bring in plenty of electical and distribute it well, or at least plan for it later. An empty conduit is cheap now, but expensive later. You have the opportunity to bring in power thru the floor for some machines. Plan you dust collection system now.

I ran two rows of fluorescent lights and am planning on adding more. Plan for outside lighting, telephone, and maybe even TV or internet. How about building security? Site your building to take advantage of/avoid the summer/winter sun and prevailing breezes. Charts are available telling you how much overhang is needed to avoid direct sunlight in the windows during summer. You have to know your site.

Hope I made you think.

 

[PurdueSD]

Have a look at my build... ive got a 30x56 with a 4 post and attic storage trusses with a similar layout. 30' depth works perfect...wouldnt go any less though.

 

[kert]

Have a look at my build... ive got a 30x56 with a 4 post and attic storage trusses with a similar layout. 30' depth works perfect...wouldnt go any less though.

Wow, I like your shop. I like the roofline. I hadn't thought of that, or maybe I was concerned about having to build a wall to support.

I've looked at some plans, and I don't want something overstated with a lot of different rooflines. My house is an old farmhouse (found a newspaper from 1893 above a doorframe), so the modern rooflines in some of the planbooks I've seen don't work for me. However, I don't want something that is more than 4-walls and a roof. Yours looks like a pretty good compromise to me.

What was involved in sizing the steel beam (cost and expertise)? How much did the beam cost? If you don't mind my asking.

Also, what is the pitch of your roof?

 

[kert]

Also, wanted to say thanks to all who have replied. You have given me some good ideas. Keep 'em coming!

 

[PurdueSD]

Looking at the building... the left side is 6.5/12 and right side is around 7.5/12 to match the ridge height of the attic trusses.

My father built custom homes for 40 years so he hooked me up with his steel beam supplier. He ran the load calcs and over speced the beam so i could use it with a trolly and chain hoist. Dads beam guy attaches the top wood plate to the beam and delivers it on a flat bed with a boom. Seems like i spent around 800 bucks on it, but dont quote me. For an extra 100 the boom truck stuck around and we set the extremely heavy and aukward attic trusses.

Id suggest talking to a real lumber yard. Ask them if the can provide the engineering and supply the beam. if they cant, they will know who can.

 

[kert]

Well I think I've made some progress on my plan. I am thinking I'll do a gable roof over the lift with a cathedral ceiling, and gambrel trusses over the rest of the building. I'll need a post to support one end of the ridge beam, but it will be close to the the lift, so hopefully not too much in the way. I suppose I could consider steel as PurdueSD did, but I'm not sure it's worth it.

I wanted to see how it would look with my house, so I added a crude model of the house to my sketchup model. I'm really liking the looks of this design. Still need to add some windows, and probably another man door or 2, but it's coming along.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd do one roof line, having two roof lines with increase the cost of the build and give you one more place to worry about roof leaks.

 

[kert]

I'd do one roof line, having two roof lines with increase the cost of the build and give you one more place to worry about roof leaks.

That is true, but cost is not the only object. I'm not crazy about having the steep roof meet the lower roof the way it does, but I'm really liking the look, and I'm sure I can build it to divert water away from this point.

I'll probably call the county in the next week or two to find out what they require in terms of permitting and such.

Been starting to price materials, and so far the thing that shocked me the most was 2" EPS insulation to go under the slab. I really think an insulated slab with tubing for radiant heat is a smart move, but it won't be cheap!

 

[kert]

I've started a price list, and I'm getting a bit of sticker shock. I think I'm going to make it happen though. I've decided I like my house and my property, and I don't plan on moving. I need to tell myself that I'm building this for ME and I should build what I want and not try to cut corners to maximize potential return on investment. Not that I'm putting anywhere near $100k+ into it.

Some things that shocked me:

Footing and slab - Looks like I'm going to have $10k+ in having this done. Haven't called yet, but a friend tells me ready-mix is $120/yd or more.

2" EPS insulation - Looks like ~$1/sqft. WOW!

Storage Trusses - Seems like less than $100 worth of lumber, not a whole lot of assembly time, and if you could sell a few hundred, the engineering cost would be nil.

Aluminum Fascia - Stuff costs almost as much as Soffit!​

Otherwise, it's all the little things adding up.


Some questions:

I alluded to this in my original post, but wasn't specific. I have planned 3'6" from the outside wall to the closest point on the mounting flange of my 4-post lift. I think this gives me around 4'2" to the ramp if I have them out as far as they will go. Will this be OK or do I need more clearance? I'm not planning to put any workbenches or shelves on this wall.

Are there cheaper alternatives to insulate under the slab? 2" EPS seems to be $25-$35/sheet. I suppose I could go 1.5." I saw some rolled radiant barrier type insulation, but it didn't look much cheaper and I'm not really sold on radiant barriers with low R-values.

I was talking to a guy at work who says he knows of contractors who dig footings with a trencher and fill the whole footing with concrete rather than dig a wide footing, lay block, and backfill with pea-gravel. Has anybody heard of this? I would like to have 2-3 courses of block above my slab for additional separation from grade, and additional ceiling height. I had figured on using 8" block because they will be stronger and are generally cheaper than 4" block, but I know generally, your footer should be 2x the width of the block. Does anybody have any opinion on this? I'm really looking for the most cost-effective solution here.

I'll be hiring my slab, but does anybody have experience with steel fiber reinforced concrete? I notice that one of the local ready-mix plants pushes it as not requiring additional steel reinforcement. Is this true? Is this the most cost effective way to pour a slab? I can see re-mesh having the added benefit of giving me something to tie my radiant heat tubes to. I need to call and get prices so I'll be educated when I get bids.
​

With regard to some of the expenses, I'm thinking there are things I can put off like a water-heater/boiler for the in-floor heat to spread the cost out, but I only have one chance to put the tubing in my slab. I'm probably getting a bit ahead of myself on some of this. I think a good goal would be to have my vehicles under a roof next winter.

 

[kert]

Called the County the other day, and the permit shouldn't be a problem. They want a drawing of the property with distances to property lines, road centerline, and the house. The building has to be inline with or behind the house, which will push it back about 8' from my original plan which was inline with the front porch. No inspectors in the County, so I don't have to worry about that, but that also means that I'm on my own in terms of making sure everything is done right.

Been busy this week and haven't had a lot of time to post.

 

[regguy1]

Take a look at my video link below, shows interior finishing...a guided tour