Plans to build a powder coating oven for motorcycles frames?

[Garage Josh]

Been wanting to do powder coating for a LONG time. Sadly so long that I even purchased a powder coating gun kit years ago and it's sat brand new in the box since...

Well with purchasing a house this past spring with a garage now I'm ready to get serious. Wanting to make my own oven to fit motorcycle frames. Any build plans out there? Guessing some type of sheet metal structure. How will I insulate it? What is used to seal the edges that is about 400 degree heat resistant?

Not sure if a trolley system would be best or hang up from above system in the oven?

Thanks

 

[sqznby]

Here yah go

http://www.powdercoatoven.4t.com/

http://www.priority1signs.com/index.php?id=491

http://ls1tech.com/forums/tools-fabrication/1668428-diy-powder-coating-oven-build.html

 

[Garage Josh]

Awesome links, especially that first one. Now I need to decide how "big" of a motorcycle frames I want to accommodate for. I definitely want to build this on casters so move around if needed.

 

[sqznby]

Glad you liked them, hah.
I'd look for a nice neoprene caster for that.

 

[wyo george]

I'm in the same boat, starting my build just as soon as I finish building a custom polygraph chair for a client. I gotta get it done soon, I have four bike frames waiting on me already...

 

[neonnblack]

I vote making it out of metal studs and sheet metal. You can get fire rope for door seals. Ceramic blankets for insulation on something that large.

 

[Garage Josh]

Yeah the main purpose is for the several motorcycle frames I own personally and parts, and then obviously expand to do as business for others to make money.

I was thinking steel studs too. Need to find a source for these materials locally as I imagine ordering online will kill me in shipping costs I would assume.

Do you guys think a fan to circulate heat is needed or will be fine with just the heating elements on the bottom?

 

[kkroger]

Get the Studs from Home Depot or Lowes...
Insulation can be sourced from either place but is special order
2'x4' Bats are available reasonably with Free Shipping from Powder Buy the Pound...
Heating elements can be robbed from an electric oven as well as the control electrics, or you can get them for about $20 shipped from Amazon or other sources but you would still need the control electrics. Those can be sourced from a couple locations on line not cheap but can be had.
Start searching Craigslist for Used Stoves and Ovens to rob from.

 

[Garage Josh]

I think I'd rather buy all electronics (heating elements, controller, wiring, etc.) new as one of those links discussed if they were to do it again that's what they would do as the used ovens may not all be the same since it make take a few to make one big oven of this size to do motorcycles. I'll see what I can source online on Amazon and such, but if anyone has any links already for components post them up!

What about rust? I'm used to automotive applications, but what can I do about protecting this oven since it's high heat?

 

[kkroger]

I think I'd rather buy all electronics (heating elements, controller, wiring, etc.)

What about rust? I'm used to automotive applications, but what can I do about protecting this oven since it's high heat?

I hear you on the NEW,
If I were to build an oven and I do plan to over winter probably.
http://www.tccoatings.com/Control-Boxes_c_4.html
Good for controllers (most recommended) and elements ($23)
they have controllers that can run up to 8- 3500W elements.
GE 3500 W Oven Elements $20 Shipped
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BIGDEA/?tag=atomicindus08-20
$17 Shipped
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004H3XRCY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I need a larger oven at this time, and I plan one large enough for a motorcycle frame. and eventually I will probably do one large enough for a car frame. That will probably have to be GAS fired. I plan to do that one as a vertical oven that the frame can roll into on edge on a rotisserie. We shall see.

The Studs are galvanized and you can use galvanized or tin plate for the interior or just use high heat paint. You could also make the oven in sections with two elements each with heavy interconnect cables and outlets and twist lock plugs, so you could put together a larger oven or trim it down to just what you need.

 

[sqznby]

I think I'd rather buy all electronics (heating elements, controller, wiring, etc.) new as one of those links discussed if they were to do it again that's what they would do as the used ovens may not all be the same since it make take a few to make one big oven of this size to do motorcycles. I'll see what I can source online on Amazon and such, but if anyone has any links already for components post them up!

What about rust? I'm used to automotive applications, but what can I do about protecting this oven since it's high heat?

Buying new is the only way to go.

As for rust. Buy galvanized sheets (as someone already mentioned). Its easy to work with and you wont need to buy thick material for this application. Make it a layered set up. Galvy sheet outer with galvy studs and use a quality insulation with a galvy sheet inner. Sandwich some insulation in
between two pieces of galvy sheet by using the galvy studs and you're good to go.

 

[Garage Josh]

I like the idea of building the oven in sections also, and block off with temporary walls if I was only doing smaller pieces. So you think wiring each section (two elements) to switches is the way to go, and eventually up to one of those controllers? I need to eventually draw plans.

 

[EdT]

Regarding circulating fans. I did some research a long time ago on heat dissipation in electrical enclosures and found that the temperature difference between the top and the bottom of a cabinet w/o a circulating fan was a lot. I can't recall the numbers, but it was considerable. A powder coating oven for a bike frame is going to be pretty tall and the top-to-bottom difference will probably be significant even if the heaters are at the bottom. In your design, I'd suggest at least making provision for some kind of circulating fan. If you find it's OK with out it, great> If you find out that you need it at least you have a way to do it. Not much of a fan is required to stir up the air enough to keep the temp more even.

 

[Garage Josh]

Thanks for that heads up EdT. Does placement of where the fan is located matter on efficiency on keeping a constant temperature throughout the whole enclosure?

Let's say I have a total of 8 elements. Which would be more efficient?

4 sections in a row on the bottom with two elements side by side in each section with a total of 8 elements.

or

4 elements in a row on the bottom, and 4 elements on the top in a row.

 

[EdT]

Josh,
I don't design ovens so I really can't speak with any authority on where the optimum placement of the heating elements might be. It would probably be worth while to look at some commercially available ovens to get an idea of how things are arranged. You may find that my comments on circulating fans are not really an issue. I would not be too proud to adapt what others have done rather than trying to learn it all through your own experiences. I'm sure there is a ton of info out there on the web from folks who have already done what you are planning to do. As a general observation, I think you should be trying to heat the air in the oven and not trying to heat the part with radiant heat from the heating elements, but that's an opinion; not necessarily a fact. IfI was trying to build a big oven like that I think I'd be visiting the commercial appliance scrap yard looking for a dead commercial refrigerator to use for an enclosure. That would save a lot of time and $. It would still be a lot of work to re-insulate it and adapt it to your needs, but at least you would have a big metal box with a door and maybe even wheels. Also don't forget that you need to have a way to power this monster and you may be talking some serious power.

 

[kkroger]

Usually they are placed along the sides back in the side walls where they are least likely to be damaged if something gets dropped, Stirring fans are a great idea... a wee winda probably won't hurt either!

 

[stsmike]

Here is a link to a build (with pictures) of a powder coating oven that should fit your needs. It is a galvanized steel stud/steel skinned, riveted construction with lights and a convection fan.

http://www.powdercoatguide.com/2014/09/how-to-build-powder-coating-oven.html#.VCF3OvldWSo

The link is part 1 of 2, but it is almost complete. Part 2 should be posted up next week (according to the site). It does include links to parts suppliers for the "specialized" components.

It appears to be a quality build with cost remaining as low as possible.

Mike

 

[kkroger]

Excellent! Two things...
Perhaps use 2x6 Sheet metal studs for the WALLS thus allowing the Elements to be recessed and enclosed as well as allowing more space for insulation behind them without the need to build sponsons to allow insulation behind the elements.

OR much like in soudproofing use offset stud walls so the inner skin only touches studs on the inside "Wall" and the outter skin and studs don't touch the HOT interior directly.
Just random thoughts as I sit here at my desk doing inspections on poorly manufactured tooling...

 

[CudaChick1968]

... subscribed. A few years ago I was in the same boat you guys are now. Here, you can borrow a paddle.



Tough to believe it's now been five years since I finished and installed it ... but it was the single best investment of time I've ever made and the days of losing a job because my oven was a half inch too short are gone forever.

 

[Whiskeymike]

What mechanisms are used for getting heavy/bulky items into/out of the oven? If you are putting a MC frame or 1/4" steel bumper into an oven, it seems like you'd need some mechanical help.

 

[Garage Josh]

I wonder if vertical or horizontal is better?

 

[99ishvr4]

I wonder if vertical or horizontal is better?

It really depends what you are coating, but height is usually the most important factor because you hang almost all of the parts. Therefore most of the parts will be hanging down. Horizontal ovens would require multiple hooks to keep a long part elevated instead of one single hook at the top.

 

[99ishvr4]

Here is a link to a build (with pictures) of a powder coating oven that should fit your needs. It is a galvanized steel stud/steel skinned, riveted construction with lights and a convection fan.

http://www.powdercoatguide.com/2014/09/how-to-build-powder-coating-oven.html#.VCF3OvldWSo

The link is part 1 of 2, but it is almost complete. Part 2 should be posted up next week (according to the site). It does include links to parts suppliers for the "specialized" components.

It appears to be a quality build with cost remaining as low as possible.

Mike

Thanks for mentioning my article on the powder coating oven build. Part II is done and posted: http://www.powdercoatguide.com/2014/09/how-to-build-powder-coating-oven-part-ii.html#.VCVN7OW6PxU

 

[kkroger]

Thanks for mentioning my article on the powder coating oven build. Part II is done and posted: http://www.powdercoatguide.com/2014/09/how-to-build-powder-coating-oven-part-ii.html#.VCVN7OW6PxU

Thanks for creating it! Best tutorial I have read.

 

[Garage Josh]

It really depends what you are coating, but height is usually the most important factor because you hang almost all of the parts. Therefore most of the parts will be hanging down. Horizontal ovens would require multiple hooks to keep a long part elevated instead of one single hook at the top.

Didn't even think of that with long items. Although on the flip side one nice thing about a horizontal setup it seems is you could block off sections to make the oven smaller instead of heating up the whole thing and more even heat distribution.

Nice article too btw!

 

[JEdA]

Get the Studs from Home Depot or Lowes.

Are these regional? They don't show up on either the lowes or Home Depot websites once I've chosen a store.

 

[1953mercury]

What mechanisms are used for getting heavy/bulky items into/out of the oven? If you are putting a MC frame or 1/4" steel bumper into an oven, it seems like you'd need some mechanical help.

I'm betting she just smiles at those parts and they jump right in there. I know I would. Mike

 

[99ishvr4]

Thanks for creating it! Best tutorial I have read.

Thanks, I spent a lot of time on it to make it as detailed as possible that is great to hear.

Didn't even think of that with long items. Although on the flip side one nice thing about a horizontal setup it seems is you could block off sections to make the oven smaller instead of heating up the whole thing and more even heat distribution.

Nice article too btw!

Yeah like I said, it really all depends on what you are coating. Thanks.

What mechanisms are used for getting heavy/bulky items into/out of the oven? If you are putting a MC frame or 1/4" steel bumper into an oven, it seems like you'd need some mechanical help.

Usually, a rolling rack is implemented to do parts like these. For ovens that have no floor, you roll the rack right into the oven. For ovens with a floor that you can't roll a rack into, I have seen sliding racks used that the base is separated from the main rack. The base is on wheels, and has a track. You roll the rack right up to the front of the oven, then slide the rack into the oven.

Here is an example of sliding/rolling rack.

 

[kkroger]

Are these regional? They don't show up on either the lowes or Home Depot websites once I've chosen a store.

Shown in stock in Los Angeles Calif for $5.11 each and in lees summit mo for $3.15 each.
That is all I looked.at...

 

[Garage Josh]

Maybe it's my obvious lack of actual powder coating since I don't even have an oven yet, but why could you not powder coat in the oven itself? Wouldn't you just have to sweep up the "overspray" off the bottom and be done?

 

[CudaChick1968]

What mechanisms are used for getting heavy/bulky items into/out of the oven? If you are putting a MC frame or 1/4" steel bumper into an oven, it seems like you'd need some mechanical help.

It can get tricky sometimes, but I try not to take on any work that I can't physically handle myself. I considered putting together a cart of some sort for taller items, but as 99ish pointed out, I'd then need a ramp to roll it up into my oven with. And those rolling ramps need metal wheels so they won't melt in the oven and ...............

I'm betting she just smiles at those parts and they jump right in there. I know I would. Mike

Ha!!!! Now THAT'S an idea I haven't tried yet. LOL You're too cute Mike!!

Maybe it's my obvious lack of actual powder coating since I don't even have an oven yet, but why could you not powder coat in the oven itself? Wouldn't you just have to sweep up the "overspray" off the bottom and be done?

There's nothing saying you can't Josh, but keep in mind over time that all the overspray is going to build up on the sides of the oven, your elements, the racks, etc. It will either stay there forever (because you cure it along with the parts) or you can try to sweep it up to reclaim it. But what you'll be sweeping up isn't JUST overspray ... it's dirt, pet fur, lint, fuzz, media and everything else you've got in your shop. All that stuff will become airborne and get stuck on your part because it's statically attracted to it from the process and has some residual charge even when it's not attached to the ground clip. I don't know how you are about quality control, but if my work ends up with fuzz, fur and lint in it, I can't ask my customer to put it on his car.

 

[JEdA]

Shown in stock in Los Angeles Calif for $5.11 each and in lees summit mo for $3.15 each.
That is all I looked.at...

I wonder if they don't meet code or something here. They aren't available in any of the Arkansas stores I tried except one near the border. I guess I'll have to think of something else. Steel tube is way more expensive.

 

[Garage Josh]

Call the stores directly. They don't always show what's in stock online.

 

[JEdA]

I went in the Home Depot with them pulled up on my phone from another Home Depot thinking they could order them. The part number doesn't pull up anything in their computer. They didn't know anything to do.

 

[kkroger]

Give these guys a call and see what they can do for you.

Wall Specialties
Little Rock, AR 72201

(501) 590-2835

 

[Garage Josh]

There's nothing saying you can't Josh, but keep in mind over time that all the overspray is going to build up on the sides of the oven, your elements, the racks, etc. It will either stay there forever (because you cure it along with the parts) or you can try to sweep it up to reclaim it. But what you'll be sweeping up isn't JUST overspray ... it's dirt, pet fur, lint, fuzz, media and everything else you've got in your shop. All that stuff will become airborne and get stuck on your part because it's statically attracted to it from the process and has some residual charge even when it's not attached to the ground clip. I don't know how you are about quality control, but if my work ends up with fuzz, fur and lint in it, I can't ask my customer to put it on his car.

Was just re-reading over this. So are you saying you actually reclaim the overspray powder in your dedicated separate spray booth? Wouldn't you still have those issues like you mentioned or no?

 

[CudaChick1968]

NOOOOOO, I never reclaim my powder EVER for all of the reasons I outlined up there. Most of the work I do is for high end muscle cars, show queens and old rides belonging to guys who are just as picky as I am. If it doesn't look as good from 3 inches as it does from 3 or 30 feet, then it wasn't my work, plain and simple. Defects of any sort are unacceptable.

I don't use a spray booth because they're just too limiting and don't really do that much to keep your shop clean unless you're willing to vacuum it out after every color change. Me, I'm lazy and have 25 feet of air hose so it goes out the door along with the other detritus several times a day; I don't want a bunch of **** floating around landing on my work.

I've got a big hanging rack ...... ya pervs, not THAT kinda rack lol -- it's an old restaurant security door -- suspended from a ceiling hoist that gives me 360 degree access and adjusts to the exact height I need. It allows me to either hang parts from it on wires or hooks or bring it down further and use it as a table for my valve covers and intakes and stuff that have jigs. I can also raise it all the way up when not in use. You can kinda see it here, black and hanging up over my left shoulder (sorry, it's the only pic I can find). Disregard the primer gray A-frame behind it which is now a swing support out in the yard. LOL



Keep in mind too Josh that if your kv settings on your gun are set properly and you've got a good ground on the part, your raw powder overspray will be very minimal anyway. I may be wrong but I was guessing earlier you've got one of the hobbyist setups and those do tend to dump out a lot of excess powder -- usually when you're least expecting or wanting it. And that's something you don't want building up inside your curing oven ... because it will eventually start falling off or flaking all over the parts you're curing and will become embedded in or stuck on top of the powder.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

NOOOOOO, I've got a big hanging rack ...... ya pervs, not THAT kinda rack lol

When I started reading your post, I thought to myself."you know she didn't say that" then I read the rest of it...

 

[CudaChick1968]

Ya just never know what might come out of my fingers ....



Besides, somebody has to keep you guys on your toes.

 

[Garage Josh]

NOOOOOO, I never reclaim my powder EVER for all of the reasons I outlined up there. Most of the work I do is for high end muscle cars, show queens and old rides belonging to guys who are just as picky as I am. If it doesn't look as good from 3 inches as it does from 3 or 30 feet, then it wasn't my work, plain and simple. Defects of any sort are unacceptable.

I don't use a spray booth because they're just too limiting and don't really do that much to keep your shop clean unless you're willing to vacuum it out after every color change. Me, I'm lazy and have 25 feet of air hose so it goes out the door along with the other detritus several times a day; I don't want a bunch of **** floating around landing on my work.

I've got a big hanging rack ...... ya pervs, not THAT kinda rack lol -- it's an old restaurant security door -- suspended from a ceiling hoist that gives me 360 degree access and adjusts to the exact height I need. It allows me to either hang parts from it on wires or hooks or bring it down further and use it as a table for my valve covers and intakes and stuff that have jigs. I can also raise it all the way up when not in use. You can kinda see it here, black and hanging up over my left shoulder (sorry, it's the only pic I can find). Disregard the primer gray A-frame behind it which is now a swing support out in the yard. LOL



Keep in mind too Josh that if your kv settings on your gun are set properly and you've got a good ground on the part, your raw powder overspray will be very minimal anyway. I may be wrong but I was guessing earlier you've got one of the hobbyist setups and those do tend to dump out a lot of excess powder -- usually when you're least expecting or wanting it. And that's something you don't want building up inside your curing oven ... because it will eventually start falling off or flaking all over the parts you're curing and will become embedded in or stuck on top of the powder.

As usual, great insight. Yes I currently have a hobby gun from Eastwood. I plan on doing it commercially so I will eventually have to upgrade

Do you not have quality problems by doing it outside? I would think that would be worse than in the garage.