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Plastic or insulation under concrete slab?

73survivor

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Aug 4, 2005
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Mcveytown, PA
Those of you that have poured your own concrete slab, what did you lay on the ground before you poured the concrete? Did you lay down plastic or insulation or both? Are you happy with the results? I'm going to be pouring a 40 x 50 slab in the spring and I'm looking for advice. Thanks in advance.
 
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neblinc

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Lincoln, NE
I used the 2 inch 2000 psi foam and plastic on my floor, and now after researching foil backed insulation for my walls and ceiling I see that it can be used under concrete also, so keep researching your options.

The foil would have been much cheaper than the foam, but I have not heard of anyone using it under concrete.

Randy

I have some pics on my shop build website showing the foam.
 

bmwpower

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I used a 6 mil vapor retarder under my slab. No insulation.
 

JohnZ

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Washington, Michigan
I used 10-mil Visqueen, then laid down 4' x 8' sheets of 5/8"-thick high-density closed-cell foam with heavy foil on both sides, and poured over that, waited about four months, then shot-blasted and two coats of 2-part industrial epoxy resin on top. Floor is dry and warm even in below-zero outdoor temps, ZERO moisture migration, floor is six years old and still looks like it was poured yesterday (2500 sq. ft.). :thumbup:
 
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DynoDave

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JohnZ said:
I used 10-mil Visqueen, then laid down 4' x 8' sheets of 5/8"-thick high-density closed-cell foam with heavy foil on both sides, and poured over that, waited about four months, then shot-blasted and two coats of 2-part industrial epoxy resin on top. Floor is dry and warm even in below-zero outdoor temps, ZERO moisture migration, floor is six years old and still looks like it was poured yesterday (2500 sq. ft.). :thumbup:

John, where did you buy these materials? I'll be having a slab poured soon, and definately want the vapor barrier. The insulation would be nice, but I'll have to check the piggy bank first! :bounce:
 

JohnZ

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DynoDave said:
John, where did you buy these materials? I'll be having a slab poured soon, and definately want the vapor barrier. The insulation would be nice, but I'll have to check the piggy bank first! :bounce:

They were part of the total project of building the house - architect spec'd everything based on my needs, and the builder supplied it (and I was on-site every day for eight months to make sure the job was done right); this was the sixth home I've had built, and I've learned a lot about it over the last thirty years. The builder only builds custom designs, and has worked with my architect for many years (my wife designed the house, and I designed the attached garage).

:beer:
 

DynoDave

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Thanks John. I was hoping you knew where he bought it (I'm not far from you). I guess I'll hit the usual places and see what I can come up with (Lowes, Home Depot, James Lumber, etc.)
 

rt66jt

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York, PA
I would use both a vapor barrier and insulation. A true vapor barrier is at least 10 mils thick, could be up to 15 mils. Anything less is more likely to tear when weight smashes it into the stone base. You should also use polyethelene tape to seal the 6 inch overlapped edges, not duct tape. For insulation, use the high density sheets, at least 2 inches thick. The foam has a R-rating of 5 per inch.
 

bmwpower

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rt66jt said:
...A true vapor barrier is at least 10 mils thick, could be up to 15 mils. Anything less is more likely to tear when weight smashes it into the stone base...

Not true. A vapor barrier can be < 10 mils thick. It all comes down to the quality of the barrier. ASTM specs to look for are the "permeance" and "puncture resistance". I'd pick a 6 mil barrier with better specs than a 10 mil any day...
 
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What's under the vapor barrier/insulation is something to consider, too. You'll want no organic material (tree stumps) or loose fill. I use either sand or 304 limestone and rent a power tamper to work it down. Try to get at least a couple inches uniform thickness, more is Ok but too much is wasteful. Then vapor barrier, 2 inch foam and 4 inch square welded wire mesh.

Pound pieces of re-bar into the soil in a few places (out in the middle of the pour) to indicate your finish elevation. Mark either a chalk snap-line or pencil onto the well-braced perimeter form where the elevation is. Pound a few nails along this to help you find it in the heat of battle. You can yank these later. If the pad will be rising and falling due to frost, nail homesote or equivalent around the perimeter to give the slab something to slide on. Have a garden rake handy to pull the wire mesh up into the center of the slab before final screeding but be careful not to snag the insulation. Or just yank it up with your fingers, wear heavy rubber gloves, not those ***** cleaning lady gloves.

After the pour, maybe 24-36 hours, I saw cut control joints every ten feet or so, not for expansion but to make the cracks go where I want them. If you really want to get fancy, fill the kerfs with exterior-grade silicone caulk.
 
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