Plastic welding anybody?

[volaredon]

I got into this when I had my 1st Apache "hard side" pop up camper. I'm on #3 now.
Side walls are ABS instead of canvas.
I have 2, Seelye #63 hot air plastic welders. Basically looks like an oversized wood burner, with heated air pumped thru the center of the tip.
I haven't done much with this tool in a couple of years, it does take some getting used to. It's kind of like oxyfuel welding or maybe a little bit like TIG. I have run these from my 2 stage 80 gallon garage compressor but only need 3-4 psi.
Would an airbrush compressor produce enough volume to run this? Looking for a little portability. Next project with it is fixing the hood on my Deere lawn tractor when my filler rod gets here.
One thing with plastic welding is that there are lots of plastics, filler material must match the parent material

 

[volaredon]

fixing this Deere hood will be the 1st time messing with welding polycarbonate material. using Google I get both "this is a tough material to fix, (post-er) tried and it cracked again readily".... to "easy fix, takes to hot air welding easily"
I got some green polycarbonate filler rod coming from a company called "polyvance", that is (according to them) a very close match to Deere green. I got both the ribbon and the 1/8" round style filler rod coming..... probably spending more trying to fix this one vs finding a good used hood for the thing..... but I want to see what I can do with it, for shits and giggles.... and I know it wont take 30 ft (of each) I'll have plenty left for future repairs. Polycarbonate is definitely more expensive than the ABS rod that I bought previously, costs.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Can’t help you at all, have never seen it done. But definitely interested. Got any pics of end results or even equipment to get this rolling?

 

[TimeWarpF100]

I have a plastic welder I bought back in 2006 for 900.00 I used it once to repair the Plastic rear spoiler on my 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator 428 car. It worked fantastic. I have boxes with about all different plastic filler rods.
I would be willing to let it go for cheap if anyone wanted it. Will see if I can find pics of the spoiler I repaired

 

[don long]

I have one somewhere around here. we used them in the body shop when plastic bumpers and other parts broke. I have used it here at home when the kids would wreck ATC the 3 wheeler's and quads. That was A WHILE AGO

 

[kerrynzl]

This is what you need [No compressor needed]

Amazon.com

I've used a similar one to these for all sorts of work. Heat shrinking wiring, Welding Tarpaulins etc, Car plastic repairs ets.

Having a compatible filler material and temperature control is the secret!
If I need to weld a plastic bumper, I go to the local "U-Pull" and see if I can get some donor plastic from a similar vehicle.
I cut strips [using a cut off wheel ] to make my own filler rod. Then use the leftover scrap to practice getting the temps correct.

One word of caution NEVER SWITCH OFF a hot air welder! Turn the temp down to zero and let the fan/blower cool down the element , Then once it is blowing cold air ,switch it off

Do this ^^^ and you'll get 30 years from one [like mine] , don't do this and you'll get 1 day and you'll need a new element.

If you want to get into real "high tech" welding of thermoplastics you need to play with High frequency welders which work play on the same principles as a microwave oven.

 

[volaredon]

I already have 2 hot air versions here. not looking for any more. Both the same as each other. One bought from Ebay about 6-7 years ago, to use and experiment on my camper, and the other bought for "not very much" at a going out of business/retirement auction at a local radiator shop 2-3 years ago. Both of mine are the Seelye brand, Series 63.
I haven't yet tried the one from the auction. My son borrowed one last summer, I didn't even know he had it til he brought it back.... hope he didn't burn it up on me, not sure if he knows anything about them. (I know enough to be dangerous about them, is about all)
They do take some "getting used to". and I'm sure using them on different plastics is a learning curve in itself. I have yet to try it on any plastic besides ABS.
Both of these, looked like they may have been used once or twice each, at most..... some I see pix of on Ebay look like they have been thru a crusher and then thrown into a fire....

bought that 2nd one "just in case" I needed something for the 1st one, it came with a spare heat element besides the one within the hot air torch, (haven't tested, who knows, the one laying loose in the box could be burnt out, who knows) a few tips, and a bunch of various different filler rod. It was one of those "I didn't know it would be there at that sale, and didn't know Id be bringing THAT home with me," kinds of buys.

the same basic unit I have straight from the factory now costs something like $566 (about double if you get the one with the included compressor) as I remember I paid about $140 for the Ebay one and $25 ish for the one from the auction.

I'm curious about the mini compressors that come with the fully self contained units, they don't look much different than the airbrush compressor I just bought via Ebay to try with mine, other than by brand name. I bought a Paasche D500, the ones I've seen with an included compressor use a "GAST" brand unit of very similar physical size. .
I am thinking of picking up the "speed tip" for the 1/16" thick by 3/8" wide ribbon but don't want to spend that much "for just this one job" I'll have to see if I wind up using this thing more before I do that. I do have a "speed tip" for the 1/8" dia round filler/ and I think one for the 3/16" dia round filler.
In the past before I got these units, I've just used one of my many solder guns to melt the edges together (what the company that made my unit just calls a good "tack" as it turns out) and sometimes it worked out but usually not.
I did discover most of the "DON'Ts" that the company calls out in one of their videos, while I was repairing the plastic walls on my pop up campers....... easier to do the mistakes, than to do it right for sure. Though that particular material is pretty thin.

 

[volaredon]

This is what you need [No compressor needed]

Amazon.com

I've used a similar one to these for all sorts of work. Heat shrinking wiring, Welding Tarpaulins etc, Car plastic repairs ets.

that one looks like the main "competitor" for the plastic welder I have, I think its brand is "Lester" or "Leister", something like that.... I do like the adjustable temp which I would think gives the operator more room for "fudge factor" in speed of moving along a seam because once set the hot air stream will only get "so" hot....I know that Seelye offers like 3 different wattages of heating elements, I remember in the (distant) past seeing a chart somewhere telling which element was recommended for different tasks.... turning a dial to desired temp seems easier.... But I'm gonna "run what I brung"....

 

[Jacko264]

The one in the link is like what we use at work fitting and welding new Lino
Graham floors in buses

 

[volaredon]

Never heard of those floors

 

[kelpaso1]

PolyVance. The one I use. I make good money fixing things. $10/inch, so a 6" crack in a canoe or ATV is $60 and takes less than 20 mins to repair.

Mini-Weld Plastic Welder | Automotive, Industrial & General Plastic Repair Solution | Polyvance

Explore the Polyvance Mini-Weld plastic welder, ideal for automotive collision repair and versatile enough for manufacturing, contracting, and general plastic welding applications.

www.polyvance.com

 

[volaredon]

I've just discovered polyvance since I went looking for filler rod for my most recent need.
What I don't get is that I was able to get polyvance brand filler rod via Amazon for less than ordering straight from polyvance themselves.
From Amazon it was $36 for what I ordered. With free shipping. From polyvance it was $42 PLUS $10 shipping. So 1/2 again more expensive straight from the source.
And when I looked it up at polyvance they even had a blurb "also available from Amazon" with a link to them..... 36 vs $52 is a huge difference.

 

[volaredon]

PolyVance. The one I use.

Mini-Weld Plastic Welder | Automotive, Industrial & General Plastic Repair Solution | Polyvance

Explore the Polyvance Mini-Weld plastic welder, ideal for automotive collision repair and versatile enough for manufacturing, contracting, and general plastic welding applications.

www.polyvance.com

I remember seeing that one advertised alot back when I got my 1st Seelye one. Lots of people selling them on eBay back then.
If it works for you great. I don't mess around with this process enough to spend the dough on a different one just to try it out.
There's also a brand called Laramy out there, not too familiar with them other than that they exist.

 

[kelpaso1]

I remember seeing that one advertised alot back when I got my 1st Seelye one. Lots of people selling them on eBay back then.
If it works for you great. I don't mess around with this process enough to spend the dough on a different one just to try it out.
There's also a brand called Laramy out there, not too familiar with them other than that they exist.

A little practice when starting is all it takes. Pretty easy to do and way more precise than those hot air ones. Those hot air welders are too easy to warp thin plastics. Just advertise on CL "plastic welding" and you will have a ton of business. On the PV site there are lots of tutorials for starting out. It's a good side job and very relaxing. Mine paid for itself in 1 summer. Now it's all gravy 18 inches of welding/hour for $180. If I could do it full time I would and quit this small engine repair ****.

 

[kelpaso1]

I have fixed a multitude of things: canoes, atv's, snowmobiles, broken car dash plastics, kitchen/home stuff, RV water tanks, snow blower chutes, and even a couple airplane dash panels, the possibility's are endless.

 

[volaredon]

I know of nobody in my area that handles anything remotely related to plastic welding, everything I have acquired along those lines except for my 2nd seelye has come to me via online sources such as eBay I see that Grainger is listed as a semi local dealer for some of this stuff but jeez, Grainger is the most overpriced place to buy anything from

 

[86turbodsl]

I've gotten quite good replacing broken plastic stuff with durable metal parts. It's an option in some cases.

 

[2oolhound]

It's been years decades since I did any airbrushing but one thing I remember is the electric diaphram compressors pulsate which was problematic. We used to add a second schrader valve stem to an inner tube and feed one from the compressor and use the extra one to go to the air brush. This way the inner tube acted like an air tank and removed the pulsing effect. Of coarse any small compressor that has a tank will alleviate this problem.

 

[Firebrick43]

I have a plastic welder I bought back in 2006 for 900.00 I used it once to repair the Plastic rear spoiler on my 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator 428 car. It worked fantastic. I have boxes with about all different plastic filler rods.
I would be willing to let it go for cheap if anyone wanted it. Will see if I can find pics of the spoiler I repaired

coworker has an 69 cougar covert with 390/4 speed. I think its an eliminator. Anyway I welded up the spoiler for it, guess there are not to many that are not cracked. I use a steibel hot air gun. It has fine digital controls and the tips to do so. No air compressor needed either.

I need to weld up my 4x4x4 indirect hot water tank next.

 

[andyvh1959]

I've done a bunch of motorcycle ABS plastic repairs and mods using a 1500 watt soldering iron, ABS plastic filler rod and Acetone. The ABS plumbing cement is basically Acetone and it melts ABS given enough time. When I create an ABS part from sheet stock I save all the chips and small cut pieces to mix in a jar with Acetone. It turns the ABS into a sticky slurry which I can use as filler material to seep into gaps, form fillets. I'm currently finishing up a "dash" panel to mount the gauge set from a Vulcan VN1700 into a fairing I'm mounting on my VN1600.

 

[kerrynzl]

I've done a bunch of motorcycle ABS plastic repairs and mods using a 1500 watt soldering iron, ABS plastic filler rod and Acetone. The ABS plumbing cement is basically Acetone and it melts ABS given enough time. When I create an ABS part from sheet stock I save all the chips and small cut pieces to mix in a jar with Acetone. It turns the ABS into a sticky slurry which I can use as filler material to seep into gaps, form fillets. I'm currently finishing up a "dash" panel to mount the gauge set from a Vulcan VN1700 into a fairing I'm mounting on my VN1600.

My go to for small welds that don't require filler is a small [25 watt] soldering iron.
Any larger welds I use my hot-air welder.

The soldering iron is great learning tool for anybody who has never welded plastic before.
It is like using a hot knife to spread butter

 

[BombShelter]

Yes, there's nothing better than a Seelye Plastic Welder, I used to sell the **** out of them but was never proficient at welding. Personally I have the Model 63 with the little compressor. It's the same size as a big airbrush compressor. You'll know right away if you need a little more air because your bead will look horrible. I'd call Seelye directly and ask them, they were always great to me but I think they sold it a few years ago.

Seelye Acquisitions, Inc. | Thermopastic Welding Equipment & Fabrication

Seelye Acquisitions, Inc. has specialized in hot air plastic welding equipment, fittings, plastic fabrication, and distribution for over 60 years.

www.seelyeinc-orl.com

US Plastics is still a distributor, they pulled most of them a decade ago and went to Grainger with most of the line.

Plastic Welders & Soldering Irons/Guns Category | Plastic Welder, Seelye Welders and Plastic Welding Kit | U.S. Plastic Corp.

Your source for plastic welders, plastic welder, seelye welders, plastic welding kit, hot air tools

www.usplastic.com

I used to love watching the guys out in the plastic fab shop putting together tons of cool stuff, mostly UHMW and HDPE, melt a few spots on the edges, bend the side up and do a full weld, easy-peasy.

 

[andyvh1959]

I've also seen the electric trigger style soldering gun that uses squiggly heated wires to sink into the ABS section to initially "staple" them together. I could see getting one to set new parts in place before doing the full bond and fill technique. But really, a good small to medium soldering iron does that.

A buddy of mine dumped his Yamaha Royal Star Venture and damaged the left fairing lower; cracks, scrathes/gouges, busted off mount stub, even ground down a rounded edge form. I was able to heat weld all the parts, filled the gouge and welded on the mount stub and braced it. For the rounded edge bead I just heat welded on an ABS filler rod to the edge and then backfilled it with my ABS slurry. Once it set , I shaped and sanded it, then found a Duplicolor spray can that was very close to the Yamaha color. I didn't charge him anything as I was basically experimenting and learning while doing it. He was really pleased with the result versus buying a salvage part for near $100, or twice that for a new OEM part.

I have a fairing from a BMW R1100RS that is whole but cracked. I dug it out of the dumpster at the shop. It'll be another practice repair item, that when done I can easily sell for $50 to $100, ready to be paint matched.

I have an old set of ABS Bates style saddlebags I am mounting on a buddies Vulcan VN900. I'm doing some easy ABS mods on them to make them a bit more rigid, and I also blistered out the back to fit into the Kawasaki bag mounts and increase the storage volume. ABS motorcycle parts are easy to repair and modify.

 

[bw77]

My go to for small welds that don't require filler is a small [25 watt] soldering iron.
Any larger welds I use my hot-air welder.

The soldering iron is great learning tool for anybody who has never welded plastic before.
It is like using a hot knife to spread butter

I just made my first plastic weld repair. I removed the splash shield on my 99 Volvo S70, and one of the ears broke off.
Used a 23 watt soldering iron to fix it. I added a bit of filler from a zip tie. Not pretty, but it feels strong.

 

[ChefRex]

I just made my first plastic weld repair. I removed the splash shield on my 99 Volvo S70, and one of the ears broke off.
Used a 23 watt soldering iron to fix it. I added a bit of filler from a zip tie. Not pretty, but it feels strong.

I've done similar, I when take an old wide screwdriver that a bent at a 40 degree angle, heat with a torch and smooth it out, works well and probably a little stronger.

 

[kerrynzl]

I just made my first plastic weld repair. I removed the splash shield on my 99 Volvo S70, and one of the ears broke off.
Used a 23 watt soldering iron to fix it. I added a bit of filler from a zip tie. Not pretty, but it feels strong.

Zip Ties are made from Nylon and most bumpers are made from ABS . The 2 are not really compatible.
If you lay the Nylon on top of the fillet , you will be able to peel it out later.

But congrats on giving it a go. You did well
The biggest issue with a soldering iron is getting the tip at a suitable angle to spread the material. That is why those cheap plastic welders have a foot on them.

I repair plastic buckets all the time [they only cost 99c] The reason is to keep on top of my skills .
A plastic bucket is ****ed in 9 months in NZ because of our UV sunlight.

 

[cadman777]

I have fixed a multitude of things: canoes, atv's, snowmobiles, broken car dash plastics, kitchen/home stuff, RV water tanks, snow blower chutes, and even a couple airplane dash panels, the possibility's are endless.

I have a plastic gas tank (Ethanol) to fix.
It needs to be cut open and the internals fixed.
Then the opening needs to be re-welded.
Would you attempt to do that?
If so, what would you rate your probability of success?

 

[kerrynzl]

I have a plastic gas tank (Ethanol) to fix.
It needs to be cut open and the internals fixed.
Then the opening needs to be re-welded.
Would you attempt to do that?
If so, what would you rate your probability of success?

Yep! I would do that!

But use common sense and cut at the top side. [lessening the possibility of a leak]
And if you cut a square shape, only cut 3 sides and use the heat gun and bend it out of the way.

I have successfully repaired a leaking gas tank with gas still in it [low level]
It had damage on one side, so we jacked the car up on one side onto stands.
I purged the tank with a CO2 fire extinguisher as a precaution [you can use MIG argon gas for this] And used my trusty soldering Iron.

 

[cadman777]

Yep! I would do that!

But use common sense and cut at the top side. [lessening the possibility of a leak]
And if you cut a square shape, only cut 3 sides and use the heat gun and bend it out of the way.

I have successfully repaired a leaking gas tank with gas still in it [low level]
It had damage on one side, so we jacked the car up on one side onto stands.
I purged the tank with a CO2 fire extinguisher as a precaution [you can use MIG argon gas for this] And used my trusty soldering Iron.

Thanks for your quick reply!
Now I've got confidence to do the repair.
It's an old '98 C230 Benz.
The plastic elbow inside going to the 'splash well' disintegrated, so the 'saddlebag' type gas tank fills on the other side and the pump runs dry.
So I gotta cut it open and make my own metal elbow.
Great idea on cutting 3 sides and bending up.
Yup, cut on top only.
Gonna remove the tank, cuz can't access anything w/it in the car.
Thanks for your encouraging input!

 

[Old Man Roger]

Thanks for your quick reply!
Now I've got confidence to do the repair.
It's an old '98 C230 Benz.
The plastic elbow inside going to the 'splash well' disintegrated, so the 'saddlebag' type gas tank fills on the other side and the pump runs dry.
So I gotta cut it open and make my own metal elbow.
Great idea on cutting 3 sides and bending up.
Yup, cut on top only.
Gonna remove the tank, cuz can't access anything w/it in the car.
Thanks for your encouraging input!

Depending on how large of an opening you need, could you make an access hole like an electric fuel pump size hole? That way you could just bolt it back together with a gasket?

 

[cadman777]

Depending on how large of an opening you need, could you make an access hole like an electric fuel pump size hole? That way you could just bolt it back together with a gasket?

Great idea, but this is unsuitable for that method.
I looked into doing that but all the hole kits are for diesel only.
Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with (cutting a hole in the top):

 

[Old Man Roger]

UUGGHH

 

[cadman777]

UUGGHH

Pretty nasty, eh?!

 

[Old Man Roger]

Pretty nasty, eh?!

Ya, if it were mine, I’d probably be putting 2 fuel cells in it.lol

 

[cadman777]

Great idea!
What kind would you use?
I made a write-up on it on the BenzWorld forum.
It's a FUBAR design.
Everything is over-engineered...

 

[willy3486]

I have used soldering irons and soldering guns to weld. I had a RV waste tank that had a crack. I got some old quart black bottles and cut them in strips. The tanks was about the same type of plastic. I used a soldering gun to go down the crack then left to right over it. I then filled in with the plastic strips. That was about 15 years ago and its still holding together and not leaking.

 

[cadman777]

I have used soldering irons and soldering guns to weld. I had a RV waste tank that had a crack. I got some old quart black bottles and cut them in strips. The tanks was about the same type of plastic. I used a soldering gun to go down the crack then left to right over it. I then filled in with the plastic strips. That was about 15 years ago and its still holding together and not leaking.

Nice!
What wattage soldering iron?
What kind of tip?

 

[Old Man Roger]

Great idea!
What kind would you use?
I made a write-up on it on the BenzWorld forum.
It's a FUBAR design.
Everything is over-engineered...

What ever would fit in the provided area. Baffled.

 

[willy3486]

Nice!
What wattage soldering iron?
What kind of tip?

I am not sure of wattage but its a Hakko 888. Its a variable temp soldering iron for electronics. Its the standard pointed tip. I use it at work and when I have a chromebook or laptop that is broke I sometimes usee it to go over a crack or to add plastic around one of the nuts that is installed in the plastic shell. I do clean it off after using it that way.

 

[cadman777]

What ever would fit in the provided area. Baffled.

Any particular brand that you know is of good quality?
It would be challenge due to the fuel system design.