So I've started a build thread earlier this year and have kept it current with the progress and posting pictures. I recently did the wiring and didn't even to think to start a new thread here until someone mentioned something I did was not safe (run cat5 along with electrical wires). I have since removed it. Any other issues or suggestions? The link to my build is in my signature.
Please critique my electrical work
- Thread starter Rainking
- Start date
Aceman
Well-known member
SER underground.
No ufer in a new garage.
LB's without accessible covers.
I'd suggest asking questions BEFORE you start wiring next time.
Gooch
Well-known member
Never a good idea to come out of a basement below grade, never seen one not leak.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I left u some comments on your other thread since thats where the pics are!!
If this is getting inspected hes really screwed!! Though hes already screwed if the underground feeder is indeed SER....
If this is getting inspected hes really screwed!! Though hes already screwed if the underground feeder is indeed SER....
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
I would have put the garage panel one stud bay to the left of where it is, and brought the entrance wires up and thru the stud and entered the box on the top. Lots less crowding in the box that way.
Actually, after looking at it, why did you bring the bare ground to the left, up the full height of the box, across the top and then down the right side. You nearly circled the box with the ground, just run it to the right and into the bottom of the ground bar connector. Ground bars are cheap. Put one on the same place on the left, and run a solid #6 across to it and then you don't have to cross ground wires over, they stay on the same group with the hot and neutral till they reach the ground bar.
Are you using GFCI breakers for the outlets? or are you installing a GFCI receptacle in the beginning of the run and passing thru it for the remainder of the circuit?
Charles
Actually, after looking at it, why did you bring the bare ground to the left, up the full height of the box, across the top and then down the right side. You nearly circled the box with the ground, just run it to the right and into the bottom of the ground bar connector. Ground bars are cheap. Put one on the same place on the left, and run a solid #6 across to it and then you don't have to cross ground wires over, they stay on the same group with the hot and neutral till they reach the ground bar.
Are you using GFCI breakers for the outlets? or are you installing a GFCI receptacle in the beginning of the run and passing thru it for the remainder of the circuit?
Charles
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wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Good catch on the GFCIs. Theres so many other things to point out that i didnt even think of mentioning GFCIs....
MrMark
Well-known member
Is that #6 jumper required? I've never done that. I've not seen that in the ground bar kit instructions.
pattenp
Well-known member
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
You should be able to install a LB "upside down" under your main panel, with the cover facing to the right, and coming off to the left you install a wide sweep ell, then another LB in the same manner that the one is installed now at the pipe coming thru the wall. It may need to be closer to the wall, or further away, to meet the ell, but that would make it nicer looking and easier to pull thru, and code compliant. The ell is available with or without the bell on the end, depending on what additional stubs you may or may not need to install.
Charles
Charles
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
This rather rubs me the wrong way. There are many well informed, educated DIY types who can and do electrical work to a level equal to a pro, and many times way past what some pros do.
Electrical work should be handled by a educated and informed person who is familiar with the code..............
Charles
You had way too many to drink
It can rub you the wrong way all you want. A professional in any occupation is going to know more then a DIYer. The difference is the pros do this stuff day in and day out and have been trained to do so. Knowing code is only half the battle and most DIYers don't know how to read the code. The code book is not written in lamens terms you need to know the terminology.Yes anyone can learn this stuff just like anyone can learn any occupation that interests them. But to say a DIYer is better then a pro electrician is insanity.
MrMark
Well-known member
You are wrong about that. Pro means nothing these days, the most overused and misused word in the English language. With the internet and intelligence I would take an intelligent DIY who CARED, who studied, and who had advanced tools, over a pro in just about anything and everything in a trade.
Pro just means you do something for a living. Doesn't mean spit other than that. I see lots of houses wired by "pro's" that are a joke. Certainly not all, and quite a few electricians posting here are exceptional, but many many "pro's" are complete stupid asses, and sometimes handymen pretending to be electricians, that know very little if anything about electricity and they certainly don't understand much code. They are mechanics of wires. And even that they screw up. Every box misaligned, wires spliced half-***, no thought put into anything, etc. Charles, for example, has demonstrated at length right here, that he knows more and is more capable than ANY pro electrician I personally have ever seen.
Pro just means you do something for a living. Doesn't mean spit other than that. I see lots of houses wired by "pro's" that are a joke. Certainly not all, and quite a few electricians posting here are exceptional, but many many "pro's" are complete stupid asses, and sometimes handymen pretending to be electricians, that know very little if anything about electricity and they certainly don't understand much code. They are mechanics of wires. And even that they screw up. Every box misaligned, wires spliced half-***, no thought put into anything, etc. Charles, for example, has demonstrated at length right here, that he knows more and is more capable than ANY pro electrician I personally have ever seen.
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Quite possibly the most asinine thing I ever read online.
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
Eddie. Most of what you say is rubbish.
JM2CW.
Being a pro does, in no way, make you good.
JM2CW.
Being a pro does, in no way, make you good.
ddawg16
Well-known member
I totally agree. I'm on the final stages of my 2-story addition (you can read all the details in the link in my signature). I've made a few mistakes along the way....but my inspector has got to the point where he hardly looks at my work when he comes by because he knows it's going to be right. And has told me on several occasions how good it looks..
In one case, I had a 'pro' tell me that I couldn't use green board for the ceiling in a bathroom. Said it was against code. I asked the inspector and he said "What? What code is he making up?"
In real world terms, I'll take advice from MrMark before I believe a licensed electrician.
You had way too many to drink
Yes anyone can learn this stuff just like anyone can learn any occupation that interests them. But to say a DIYer is better then a pro electrician is insanity.
No....^^^^That 'most asinine thing I ever read online'
How many DIYers have actually studied code? Residential is only one part of electrical work.
If an electrician doesn't care about how is work looks/works he/she should get done and do something else
Yep residential is just one part of the trade and these guys think that's all we do. Everything in the world is powered by electric. Stores, malls, factories, street lights, hospitals, schools I can go on and on.
"Being a pro means nothing" ok then
I'm sure all the ASE certified mechanics on this board would love to hear that too
I'm going to tell my Dr. you're not a professional. I heard being a professional means squat these days. You going to school for 8 years and focusing on your career means nothing same with electricians. I can take my own temperature that makes me better then you Dr. I can look down my throat in the mirror and put a band aid on too.
Every profession has simple things that can be done by unqualified people. So these guys did some Google research to do some basic electric wiring (and that isn't even done right in most cases) so they claim to be better then a pro. Happens all the time.
Funny thing is most of my work is repairing stuff from guys with this mentality.
Below are some pics are from just one job where the guy "knows more then the pro"
About 6 problems just in one junction box. Those wires were hanging out just like that I didn't touch anything. Ended up removing it all.By all means keep doing what you do. It keeps plenty of professional electricians busy
Attachments
Forgot to comment on that you are right but they aren't called electricians they are just people "who do electric work" there is a major difference. An electrician does quality work.
I've found in life there are few absolutes. All professionals are not. All amateurs are not. There are enough people in each category to make exceptions to any thing you want to believe about the category wrong. You may now continue pissin into the wind.
lg
no neat sig line
lg
no neat sig line
pattenp
Well-known member
What fantasy world do you live in? I've seen my share of electrical work that has been done by licensed electricians that is far from quality work and in some cases didn't meet code. The icing on the cake with some of the work is the local electrical inspector passed it. I just replaced a plastic switch box where the electrical contractor could not get the box to fit in the wall so he cut the back of the box off to make it more shallow so to fit. So to say a pro/electrician equates to quality work just isn't so.
MrMark
Well-known member
Now you are equating Dr's and lawyers and other learned professions which require advanced degrees to the trades?
Yeah, I don't think I would operate on myself, but wire up a house? Alrighty then. Quite a little different barrier to entry there don't ya think?
Eddy, I thought you said you were a handyman. Do you even have a current NEC code book?
If so, why were you recently misstating the ampacity of nmb cable?
Do you even have an electrical license?
Yes, commercial electric is not DIY so that is not really being discussed.
Yeah, I don't think I would operate on myself, but wire up a house? Alrighty then. Quite a little different barrier to entry there don't ya think?
Eddy, I thought you said you were a handyman. Do you even have a current NEC code book?
If so, why were you recently misstating the ampacity of nmb cable?
Do you even have an electrical license?
Yes, commercial electric is not DIY so that is not really being discussed.
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TiredDude
Well-known member
I wonder how many electricians do their own taxes or keep their own books?
Do you remember all the work that met code? I don't but I remember some of the code violations I've seen.
Magneto
Well-known member
Exactly Patten! I do all my own electrical after I seen the hack job a Master Electrician did on my first home. I learned everything myself from meter to outlet. Now I know it's DONE RIGHT.
allinon72
Well-known member
You can always tell who's in a trade because you won't dare question their profession on an Internet forum.
Sorry dude you are still stuck on electricians only wiring up homes... I don't know many DIYers doing commercial and industrial wiring.
I said I was a handyman? I was "misstating" the ampacity of nm-b cable?
Never. but if I did what makes you the authority to tell what is right and wrong? How does a DIYer know that a professional electrician is doing something wrong?
Look man I know you have an inferiority complex against skilled trade professionals it's quite obvious.
I've only been replying to idiotic comments that "being a professional means nothing" "pro the most overused word"
Yeah all professionals including electricians are dolts and the DIY people are the authority is that how it works?
Justanoldguy
Well-known member
I've only been replying to idiotic comments that "being a professional means nothing" "pro the most overused word"
Yeah all professionals including electricians are dolts and the DIY people are the authority is that how it works?
I searched the WHOLE THREAD and NEVER saw this comment.
"being a professional means nothing"
Can you please direct us all to the EXACT post you are referring to?
I searched the WHOLE THREAD and NEVER saw this comment.
"being a professional means nothing"
Can you please direct us all to the EXACT post you are referring to?
Post #14 MrMark
"You are wrong about that. Pro means nothing these days, the most overused and misused word in the English language."
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I agree that pro or licensed means nothing nowadays. Ive seen first hand the sh*tty work done by "licensed" electricians. Just because someone holds a license or certified to be a pro doesnt mean they do good or quality work.
A boss of mine at a company I used to work at thought that it was ok to use any brand of breaker in any brand of panel as long as it fit. This guy is licensed AND a 30yr union electrician at that. I brought up the violation of U/L listings not to mention that would violate NEC code and if there was ever a fire, the insurance co may not pay out if U/L listings were violated. He said its not a problem. Just use whatever breakers. I of course ignored his advice so I didnt have any problems.
Sure MOST DIYers dont do commercial and industrial work. What does that have to do with anything? Its not like its something that cant be learned. At one point in time, u didnt know how to do commercial or industrial electrical either(if u indeed DO commercial or industrial electrical). A DIYer could learn commercial and industrial electrical too.
Eddie1278- u will loose this argument on here. Just give it up... 
wned: wned2:
sorry to bring up your dirty laundry but here is the thread where u incorrectly stated the ampacity of NM-B wiring based on 2011 NEC:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198215
Comment #20
And how does a DIYer know if an "electrician" is doing something wrong? By looking at code of course and consulting with folks on boards such as this one!
A boss of mine at a company I used to work at thought that it was ok to use any brand of breaker in any brand of panel as long as it fit. This guy is licensed AND a 30yr union electrician at that. I brought up the violation of U/L listings not to mention that would violate NEC code and if there was ever a fire, the insurance co may not pay out if U/L listings were violated. He said its not a problem. Just use whatever breakers. I of course ignored his advice so I didnt have any problems.
Sure MOST DIYers dont do commercial and industrial work. What does that have to do with anything? Its not like its something that cant be learned. At one point in time, u didnt know how to do commercial or industrial electrical either(if u indeed DO commercial or industrial electrical). A DIYer could learn commercial and industrial electrical too.
Eddie1278- u will loose this argument on here. Just give it up...
wned: wned2:sorry to bring up your dirty laundry but here is the thread where u incorrectly stated the ampacity of NM-B wiring based on 2011 NEC:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198215
Comment #20
And how does a DIYer know if an "electrician" is doing something wrong? By looking at code of course and consulting with folks on boards such as this one!
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MrMark
Well-known member
To Eddy:
So you never said you were a handyman?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3102544#post3102544
See Post 71. You don't even have an electrician's license OR a Code Book.
I had a good laugh at your comment as to how a DIY'er could possibly know whether a "pro" electrician had screwed something up. You need to take the needle out your arm man.
So you never said you were a handyman?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3102544#post3102544
See Post 71. You don't even have an electrician's license OR a Code Book.
I had a good laugh at your comment as to how a DIY'er could possibly know whether a "pro" electrician had screwed something up. You need to take the needle out your arm man.
Sureshot
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I like this thread. It is good to see people stand up to a "pro". If you take your doc, lawyer, banker, accountant, mechanic, plumber, or electrician's words as gospel then you likely believe your politicians and used car salesmen. No one will look out for your interests better than you, anything less will make you a victim many times over. Educate yourself and be aware of the know it all pro with nothing left to learn.
allinon72
Well-known member
It's certainly refreshing to see...as the whole "have it done by a professional" argument that pops up all too often gets really old. That might have been the case 30 years ago with actual licenses that meant something and without the internet.
pattenp
Well-known member
ddawg16
Well-known member
In my experience, a good DIY'er typically has more common sense than a lot of pro's...
On a bad day, common sense trumps most 'pro's....
On a bad day, common sense trumps most 'pro's....
Sureshot
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I once had a very educated person complaining that I would not hire him. I finally told him that he went to school for so long that all the facts and figures deposited had displaced any common sense he had and he was useless to me.
Well this is nothing new DIYers against the PROs. I expected this it's nothing new.
Lots of DIYers hate the pros because they don't have the skills or what it takes...nothing new there. They don't have the skills so they "teach" on a forum. You know the saying "those who don't know teach"
Good luck with that I'm out. I'll stick with the pro forums electriciantalk and mike holt. Go bring your comments over there and see how they fly
ohhh wait you aren't allowed to register because you aren't in the trade
Lots of DIYers hate the pros because they don't have the skills or what it takes...nothing new there. They don't have the skills so they "teach" on a forum. You know the saying "those who don't know teach"
Good luck with that I'm out. I'll stick with the pro forums electriciantalk and mike holt. Go bring your comments over there and see how they fly
ohhh wait you aren't allowed to register because you aren't in the trade