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Please Critique my Pole Framed Shop Build

JBW5

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Jun 25, 2012
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Location
Arkansas
I am in the process of designing a shop that I am about to put in on my property. It is 28x40 with 3 10x9 doors and a walk-in door on the side. I really like the single slope roof for the look. This shop is below where my house will sit and it is nice to not stare at a big flat roof. This is my first rough rendering. I will be pouring a 4 inch slab once I am done. Let me know what you think! This is simply a quick sketch of what I have in mind. I will be closing in and insulating 13 foot of one of the end bays.

Specs.
6x6 post treated
2x8 grade board treated
2x6 girts ("commercial" or "ladder" style)
12 in hole
Backfill with gravel
4" concrete in at roughly 3.5' deep hole for poles
girts on 2' centers
3 10x9 doors
1:12 Pitch roof


 
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JBW5

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Jun 25, 2012
Messages
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Arkansas
Forgot to add..the 2x12 top post will be doubled up on the front and back and inset into the post all the way around. A shelf for a lack of better words will be notched out in the tops of the post.
 

a52-830

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north of boston, massachusetts
ok, you asked for it:

(you dont mention, but i assume you are going to work on vehicles in here. some of the comments i make really only apply to that.)

1) as someone noted on another thread i just read, make sure to site the building so that you can see all the doors from the house. this helps you to make sure everything is closed (and the lights are off).

2) i think that the building either needs to be substantially wider, or it needs to be two bays. the way it is configured there is little room between the vehicles and the sides, or each other. while OK for a garage, if you are going to want to open the doors, and work around it, you need to leave room. if you are going to expect to put storage or tool chests on the sides, you need to allow for that. i am working on a 1966 pontiac. i have three gladiator 8'X2' shelving units, and they are pretty full of stuff i have taken off. if i had the room, i'd get at least one more. room for storage of larger things, like hoods, or transmission jacks, or sheet metal brakes along the sides might be useful too. and dont forget the tool chests. currently i am working out of three 26" stacked boxes, along with a few cabinets for things like drills and other larger tools.

you will also need room for a workbench. somewhere spread out the parts of the transmission as you work on it.

3) i dont think it is tall enough. i would want at least 14' at the back, sloping up towards the front, if that is how you want it. if you get a lift you will need at least that much space. and i am talking about clear ceiling height, not outside building height. i assume that girts refers to the joists you intend to use to support the roof. your drawing doesn't indicate if you intend to just run unsupported from the front to the back, or if you intend to run beams across at the side posts, but unless you intend to add a grid of support posts in the middle, i dont think that you will be able to get the lengths you are interested in without them being pretty thick.

4) while i am sure you are thinking about electricity, run an additional conduit for "phone and data". nothing beats putting an old PC in the shop, so you can watch a youtube video of someone (or several videos of different someones) doing something you are preparing to do, or looking up parts you need online. it will also be useful if you get into that "streaming music thang" (which i am not).

i am using an existing space now, but if i decided to build something, and i have thought about it, i think i would start with a floor plan. layout where everything goes. car locations, work spaces around them, tool storage, car part storage, workspaces for things you remove to work on, things like that. consider where you want power, including ceiling mounted boxes.

i like to have circuits for lights (switched as you see fit) and separate circuits for pull down power cords on the ceiling. i use 4' shoplights, which come with an attached electric cord so that they can just be plugged in. i bought LED lights, which were more expensive (about 40$ per fixture, as opposed to $15 for fluorescent lights) but i could put a lot of light out without running more circuits. of course, if you go with the "plug in, hangs from two chains" light, you can replace them later pretty easily. i

you want power along the walls, and dropped from the ceiling in the middle. i feel that you cannot have too much light, or electricity being too convenient.

if you reversed the roof, and had it slope up from the front, you could add a loft in the back, since you probably won't need more than 9 feet of clear space at the back. and go with 9, you would be surprised at how many times you will hit the ceiling if it is 8 feet. this will also allow the lights at that end to be closer to the floor, and you can even recess them between the joists. a loft can add valuable storage space for things you get that you dont need yet, like replacement parts or fancy upgrades that you want to protect from the garage environment.

and, finally, make sure you deal with the water. that roof might shed a lot of water, and you want to make sure it doesn't come into the shop. making your "floor" height a few inches above the outside grade will help. if you are cutting into a hill, run some drainage pipe, and put some gravel around it, as deep as you can get it. it might be worth putting a few drains in the floor, leading outside. be careful though, the town might have an issue with the possibility of oil or something getting out.

there, that is enough, for now at least.

you did ask . . . . . .

stev
 

Diesel Dan

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TN
Modern pole barn code would require the poles set in 24" diameter hole on 12" of concrete. Don't know if your basic flat roof changes the requirements. Also don't forget uplift protection too.

For the 40' truss header over the doors use 40' LVLs. Much stronger and straighter than dimensional lumber with all the joints. I went with 40' LVL over the doors and highly recommend it.
 

astroracer

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Mid_Michigan
Ditto on item #2 in Stev's post. 2' is not enough room in between the doors. I would shoot for at least 4' between doors and 5' to the outside doors to provide working and storage room around the vehicles. Keep in mind the OUTSIDE dimension is 40'. The INSIDE dimension is only 39' or so. With your current design that leaves about a 1' 1/2 on the outside of the end doors to the wall.... Not enough room, believe me.
AND if you plan to wall in one bay you need to think about walking around the vehicle with open doors. 13' is not enough room.
Mark
 
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matt_i

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I would try for 2:12 unless you are stuck on that look. Something to get rainwater moving off the roof....
 
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JBW5

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Arkansas
Hey Stev thanks for such a lengthy reply, you bring up some great points! As far as use, this shop will mainly be used for building motorcycles and random fabrication. The occasional jeep or truck will be brought in but 80% of the work will be moto related. I would like to keep it low for asthetics of the property. Might sound silly but I'm putting up a small cabin and I really want the shop to look like it belongs in the stand of hardwoods that it's going in. I'm located in south central Arkansas so snow load is really not much of a concern. I do agree about the size thing. My thought was that 3 bags would allow me to open up the whole front when the weather is nice but now looking at it I realize that won't allow enough room for my enclosed bay. I think two bays may be my best bet. Have 1 enclosed and one uninsulated for the welding and fab/wood work or whatever I'm getting into. I am playing with some different slopes and roof styles now to see if I can get the look I want. Thanks again! I'll post some updated pics once I get some time to draw some more stuff up. What are yalls opinions on pole vs stick? I have experience with stick. Very little with pole.
 

03fan

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Had me worried for a second. :lol_hitti

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rburke65

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Most guys I know with pole buildings end up finishing the inside with studs, insulation, etc. you may as well build with studs in the first place.....my opinion. Myself, I did both.....I used a "pole barn" foundation and a top plate, and from there I used traditional framing/construction methods. And I also vote for more room between the doors.
 
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JBW5

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Arkansas
Most guys I know with pole buildings end up finishing the inside with studs, insulation, etc. you may as well build with studs in the first place.....my opinion. Myself, I did both.....I used a "pole barn" foundation and a top plate, and from there I used traditional framing/construction methods. And I also vote for more room between the doors.

The way I have it set up with the commercial forts you could panel both sides and insulate horizontally. Is there an advantage to stick framing over pole other than finishing the inside?
 
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JBW5

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Jun 25, 2012
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Arkansas
Do yall think 1:12 pitch is asking for problems in my area? I can't seem to get the look I want if I make it any steeper.
 

pmiranda

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You said you don't get enough snow to worry about... Only things left are wind-driven rain or build-up of leaves from overhanging trees. If you can order a building where the panels are continuous (no seams along the ~30'), then rain is no issue and you'd only have to worry about discoloration if something got on there and didn't wash off with rain.
 

egnorant

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Agree with a lot of this stuff! Might go with 2 doors at 12x10 foot. The man door right on the corner seems awkward unless it swings out. I would try for a couple more feet in height in case you get fun stuff like a lift or lights or fans!

You might want to do a floorplan layout with tool boxes, fab equipment, trash cans, storage, work benches and the ability to move stuff! Include electrical layout and water to the layout and you will see how your space dwindles rapidly.

Insulate everything now! Hot, cold, wet or dry conditions exist and a little stability will make your workspace more comfortable. First time you find condensation everywhere you will agree.

How are you handling air flow? With fab work and anything gas powered and chemicals around, you will want good air replacement for more than cooling.

A steeper slope would help with leaves and such .

Bruce
 
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