Please educate me on nails

[sjvicker]

This is probably a dumb question but this is my first build that needs to be built to an engineering plan, everything else I've done has been sheds or non-load bearing walls. I recently received the engineering back for my small pole shed and the engineer is calling out 16d nails. They do not specify if these are box, sinker or common nails.

Because the engineering does not specify type of 16d nail does this mean I'm ok to use Box nails that I can shoot through my framing nailer?

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Check for notations. I've seen where addional nails were called for if using a power nailer (because the nails are smaller diameter?).

 

[Zeke]

You will be safe if you buy full head (not clipped) framing gun nails. The inspectors early on didn't like the shorter 3.25" nails so get full length. There's 8 and 10 ga. gun nails, so ask if you can use the box nails. A safe bet is to use the 8 ga. coated.

 

[duneslider]

I have found my local box stores don't always have the nail variety that is needed. A real lumber store will have the nails you need that work in your gun.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

They do not specify if these are box, sinker or common nails.

Generally safe to assume commons.
Here is a shot from IBC 2015 table 2304.10.1

 

[egdede]

Put it all together and you have the exact right course of action. As Leaflessshadetree said; look over your plans. Look for a small sentence describing fasteners. Bet it specs common which means .162 as Half-fast Eddie shows. Might not find those at Orange or Blue (4 years ago they didn't have 'em & I ended up ordering them online). Like Zeke said, just get full head to be safe and use 3 1/2 common unless the inspector says box because inspectors can be...fickle.

 

[sjvicker]

Check for notations. I've seen where addional nails were called for if using a power nailer (because the nails are smaller diameter?).

I've been through it a few times and there is no notations or call outs for additional nails. I'm definitely not looking to use 16d common and have to hammer them by hand or source a larger nail gun if I dont have to.

For buildings of this size my county doesn't really inspect or require engineering. All they care about is hole depth and that the trusses are engineered and have a MFG stamp. I paid for engineering on this building because I want to learn the details and construction on a smaller building and when I build my shop in the next few years it'll be large enough that engineering is required.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

I've been through it a few times and there is no notations or call outs for additional nails. I'm definitely not looking to use 16d common and have to hammer them by hand or source a larger nail gun if I dont have to.

Local permit might say to comply with IRC or similar, which would specify the nails.

Buy a palm nailer.

 

[Zeke]

Then go back to the engineer and have him tell you want to know what we don't have any idea about since we are not in your jurisdiction. Seems simple enough to me, either you follow the IBC which spells out what nails where, or you don't. If you don't have the right 21º nail gun for framing nails, how are we to help? Give you an excuse to use a 34º nailer?

(In CA we have to meet earthquake code so we use mostly 21º nailers with common full head nails.)

 

[sjvicker]

Then go back to the engineer and have him tell you want to know what we don't have any idea about since we are not in your jurisdiction. Seems simple enough to me, either you follow the IBC which spells out what nails where, or you don't. If you don't have the right 21º nail gun for framing nails, how are we to help? Give you an excuse to use a 34º nailer?

(In CA we have to meet earthquake code so we use mostly 21º nailers with common full head nails.)

Actually I'm not looking for you to give me an excuse to buy anything and I dont want to have to buy anything if I can help it and I'm sorry my statements about my local jurisdiction added confusion. I only meant that to explain that I'm using this process to learn and the county's actual requirements for this structure are much less.

My uncertainty was around the engineering not specifically calling out the type of 16d nail and opinions on if in this case Box was acceptable. Unlike some of the people here I'm not experienced in the details of pole building construction enough to know if 16d is a standard callout and any 16d will work or if I was missing anything. Everyone above provided great feedback, especially that locally adopted codes may have the answer, there is sometimes a notation in the engineering (there's not) and your 2 comments to ask the engineer.

I do have experience from many years ago working with engineers on aluminum patio cover plan packages and all connection joints were called out in much more detail so this one seemed strange to me.

 

[bbbarracuda]

These look nice but probably hard to work in.

 

[MoonRise]

Look at the pic Half-fast eddie posted.

example:

end nailing a top or bottom plate to the stud.

If you are hand nailing and using 16D common nails (3-1/2" long x 0.162" dia) you can use 2 nails.

If you are using a nail gun, you could use 3" long x 0.131" dia but you have to use 3 nails for the same connection.

And similarly for other nailed connections.

 

[yatg]

And if you're using a pressure treated bottom plate, you'll need hot dipped galvanized for that.

 

[bluedog225]

From some years of experience with old stuff and watching the industry since the 70s. Take it with a grain of salt.

16d, common, hot dipped galvanized, full head is always the correct nail for framing.

Box, shiny sinkers, nail gun, etc are inferior. A place that sells nails by the pound will get you rough galvanizing that holds better. Save the really rough ones for twisted boards.

Simpson sells a pretty good galvanized nail. Costs more. Worth it.

I’m probably in the minority. I don’t use 2x4s or 1/2 ply either. They piss me off.

All the best!

 

[bluedog225]

Now I’ll contradict myself. I’d mix in some ring shank in the mix. Not a lot. Maybe 25% in places that might experience pull out forces. Arguably a little less strong as they can break, but way more holding power.

 

[readhead]

The answer is yes. Construction specs can seem vague at times but this one is specific. You can use any 16d nail that you want. Not an 8d or a 12d or a 20d, a 16d. Specifically a 3 1/2” nail. You are trying to make it more complicated than it is. Now come the disagreeers (sp).

 

[matt_i]

Maze Nails has what you want, 16d HDG = hot dipped galvanized rink shank nails. Hand drive for sure. Not sure about nails for guns.

If the framing is going to be open for a bit (e.g. build on weekends, etc) the HDG heads won't leave little rust stains on the framing. This doesn't affect anything really but looks a little nicer.