Pliers: rivet or nut and bolt?

[four.cycle]

This may seem like a stupid question, but other than maybe a couple utility 6" and 8" beaters, why would anybody screw around with slip-joint pliers when there are competitively priced excellent quality groove-joint models available from Wilde or Proamerica?

The blue handles can be seen everywhere; they are well marketed. . .
I have newer groove-joint pliers(water pump) that have the rivet also. I am very displeased with one of them.

I agree, there are better choices... Sometimes it takes a failure to bring it the proper attention... That blue handled ****** now has mine..

So I made a couple inquiries and went out to take a look myself.

Proamerica uses a rivet on all of their slip-joint and groove-joint pliers per their email today:
"However, with the rivets, you shouldn’t have to worry about tightening them up because they don’t get loose like the nut and bolt type."
http://proamericatools.com/Slip-Joints-Groove-Joints_c6.htm

Wilde uses a nut and bolt type fastener on all of their slip-joint and groove-joint pliers per their email today:
"To confirm, all of our multi-position pliers are assembled with a nut and bolt...so you can tighten as they because loose..." [sic]
https://wildetool.com/

I went up to Ace Hardware this afternoon on my way to the shop, and all of their Channellock groove-joint models use a rivet.
https://www.channellock.com/original-tongue-groove.aspx

On the way back from the shop, I stopped by Sears and took a look at what they have to offer.

The Knipex models use neither a rivet or a nut-and-bolt fastener - they've gone off in another direction with their "alligators" and "pliers-wrench" models.
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&page=group_detail&groupID=1500

I didn't pay much attention to any of the made-in-China **** on the rack at Sears, but noted that their "Evolv" model uses a nut-and-bolt type fastener.

==

Clearly, BDT/NWMN has some issue with his Channellocks with the rivet fastener.
All of my own pliers are the nut-and-bolt fastener type, and I know that over the last 40 years there have been a couple that I had to snug up a bit.
I've had garden tools that used rivet-type fasteners - loppers or hedge shears - and the only remedy when they loosen up is to lay them down on a piece of iron and give them a good whack or two with a BFH and hope you can hit it right and get it tight again.

Personally, I prefer the nut and bolt arrangement, which is why I recently went with these:

Wilde G269P 5 in groove-joint pliers by four.cycle, on Flickr

Wilde G263P 8 in slip-joint pliers by four.cycle, on Flickr

Wilde G271P 10 in groove-joint pliers by four.cycle, on Flickr

Miniature pliers is a different deal: they're not seeing the kind of use the larger slip-joint and groove-joint models see, and they're certainly not designed to handle heavy loads.

So what say you?

 

[honcho]

Me thinks it is just a choice a manufacturer makes and that both types of assembly methods are acceptable.

Rivets, at least on some old pliers I have, do loosen.

Nuts do have to be tightened every now and then. They do have the advantage of being tightened in such a way that the jaws stay open without force, something that can on rare occasions be put to good use but can also be a pain in the rear.

Rivets make for a slimmer overall profile which may matter in some applications.

I personally think rivets look better, but it's performance, not looks that matter to me.

 

[G-Ram]

I bought a brand new pair of Channellock 415 slip-joint pliers a while back, and the joint was super loose right out of the package. Of course, it's riveted.. I say get a decent pair of pliers that use a nut and bolt..

 

[rlitman]

Rivets, at least on some old pliers I have, do loosen.

Yeah, but would you even notice on groove-joint pliers? Absolutely yes on needle nose pliers or diagonal cutters (yet these almost always come riveted anyway), but groove-joint pliers have so much slop intentionally in their design to begin with, I cannot imagine it making a difference.

I like Craftsman's take on the rivet with it being entirely flush:

 

[four.cycle]

^ you can get "flush fastener" models from Wilde that are effectively a "nut and bolt" type arrangement.
one example (of many):
http://wildetool.com/catid.cfm?id=1152

miniature, needle-nose, diagonal cutters, linesmans pliers are generally all flush-ground riveted type - I don't recall having ever seen any of those using a nut-and-bolt type fastener.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

four.cycle: Thanks for sharing the Information gained through Your efforts and research... I will definitely choose Wilde pliers with a bolt and nut over any riveted (adjustable) plier.. I am pleased with the quality of the Wilde tools I now have; So it is time to order some of their pliers.

 

[four.cycle]

^ no problem. I picked through the Ebay ads to find decent prices. the guy in New York (donvito-NY) and BowersTool seem to have the best deals on Wilde and Proamerica.

Wilde made/makes several "flush fastener" models but I neglected to ask them whether or not those are a "nut-and-bolt" set-up as well. A lot of the stuff listed on Ebay is discontinued and doesn't appear in the current Wilde online catalog.

 

[Exceller8]

I prefer riveted for some reason?

 

[ChrisPace]

Yeah, but would you even notice on groove-joint pliers? Absolutely yes on needle nose pliers or diagonal cutters (yet these almost always come riveted anyway), but groove-joint pliers have so much slop intentionally in their design to begin with, I cannot imagine it making a difference.

I like Craftsman's take on the rivet with it being entirely flush:

The craftsman pliers are surprisingly good btw. I bought my first set ever this year and I love them. Especially the pro versions with the red and black handles.


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[DSLTRK]

I tend to look at the wear-ability of the jaws. The Wilde tools I have seem to experience a bit more jaw wear after holding a hardened piece of work than the Channellocks and Knipex. The Knipex and Snap-on jaws are excellent.


But back to the original question, I like the riveted pliers when it comes to tongue and groove. I always had the nut loosening up on me on my Wilde no matter what I did: peening it, lock tight, lock washers. Eventually it would slip a couple of notches, very frustrating.

 

[pendragon1998]

You can peen a rivet to tighten it up, but go too far and it is too tight. A nut can be backed off.

 

[four.cycle]

re: Wilde "Flush Fastener" pliers:

"Yes, our "Flush Fastener" is also a nut and bolt...."

from Wilde Tool 12/30/15 04:53 AM PST

 

[Brownsfan]

The craftsman pliers are surprisingly good btw. I bought my first set ever this year and I love them. Especially the pro versions with the red and black handles.


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They are pretty much the same as SK pliers with different handles. They are made by Western Forge and are very good quality. I would own some of the craftsman but I don't like the way the handle feels. Actually hate the way it feels. I had some of the older orange handle versions and hated the handles so much I gave them to my nephew. The business end of them though are fantastic. I gave them away in 2001. He is still using them today.

 

[davethorik]

I have quite a few of the newer riveted Channellocks. A couple of them are holding up well with pretty heavy use, the others I don't use as much.

I have an old set of Champion DeArmont as well as a set made by Diamond Tool & Horseshoe and older slip joint pliers that have the nut. I prefer the rivet

 

[radrush]

so i made a couple inquiries and went out to take a look myself.

wilde uses a nut and bolt type fastener on all of their slip-joint and groove-joint pliers per their email today:
"to confirm, all of our multi-position pliers are assembled with a nut and bolt...so you can tighten as they because loose..." [sic]
https://wildetool.com/

.
.
.
.

 

[radrush]

Western Forge makes good stuff.

Only $15 a pop at harry epstein. Still one of the best deals around.

 

[espyking83]

Depends on the rivet and who bucked it I suppose

 

[JDV12345]

Where do I find replacement bolt and nuts for slip joint pliers? Thanks in advance

 

[RTM]

Here’s one

Diamond Tool Slip Joint Replacement Bolt and Nut

Diamond Tool Slip Joint Replacement Bolt and Nut Diamond Tool Slip Joint Replacement Bolt and Nut

www.harryepstein.com

 

[JDV12345]

Thanks. Just ordered. Do you know if those work for both the 6 and 8 inch pliers? I believe the bolt/nut are different sizes. Thanks for responding.

 

[Mikeske]

I hate the nut and bolt arrangement as the nut always backs off at the worse possible time. I thrown several pliers in the recycling over this issue with rivet at least you know that it is not going to back off at inopportune time.

 

[seber]

Definitely not a fan of bolt and nut. By the time a rivet gets loose I've tightened a nut a dozen times. A decent whack on a rivet and back in business. I understand, you can hit it too hard but starting light and working up will resolve that issue.

 

[JDV12345]

I got some old stuff from my father's estate and trying to clean them up.....restore what is possible or I would not worry with it. I do however want to try and salvage some items. Those are not good.....I agree. Thanks to everyone.

 

[JradM]

I prefer a rivet generally, but neither keep me up at night. I just like how the rivet keeps things flush.

I don't have them work loose often and I can fix them if they do.

 

[JDV12345]

Makes perfect sense. I was trying to stick with the original bolt/nut combination but I see often times they aren't easy to get off and you can't always salvage either. Thanks

 

[PoorUB]

Rivit only, I won't buy a plier with a screw and nut. Always loose at a bad time.

I typically buy Channellock and have yet to have an issue with the joint being too loose.

 

[JDV12345]

I wouldn't care and just buy new except these were in my Father's Estate so I want to hold onto those in decent shape. Thanks much.

 

[RTM]

Just a slight ding to the threads, and it won’t come loose. At least in my light usage, over 30+ years.

 

[JDV12345]

Morning, perhaps a dumb question but in some cases is it possible to replace nut/bolt with rivet or are all pressed on at factory? Nut and bolts hard to find particularly in different sizes. For 6 and 8 inch slip. Ordered form Epstein and will check the size of those when they arrive.

 

[JradM]

Morning, perhaps a dumb question but in some cases is it possible to replace nut/bolt with rivet or are all pressed on at factory? Nut and bolts hard to find particularly in different sizes. For 6 and 8 inch slip. Ordered form Epstein and will check the size of those when they arrive.

I think it can be done - it's just that it will likely take a little custom ingenuity. E.g. I expect you would need to make the rivets to the right diameter and with an appropriate flange, then press/pound them closed and perhaps grind or file the ends so they are close to flush.

I.e. it's not the sort of rivet you use a rivet gun to install.

 

[JDV12345]

I follow you. I have reached out to contact at SK Tools to see if I can purchase from them if the current order isn't the right size. Lot of work to preserve a few items but in the end could be worth the effort. Plus, you gain knowledge in the process. Find an old piece that is say in disrepair and get the bolt/nut from that and move on. Thanks for response.

 

[FMB4]

I recently replaced the pivot bolt-nut set on a pair of Craftsman grove-joint pliers that I've had since the early '80s. Couldn't find CM replacements, so I modified a button head stainless bolt (flattened the sides) and used a stainless steel (all steel) dimpled self-locking nut. It's now back in service after being 'dead in the water' for more than a decade.

 

[JDV12345]

Great feedback. Thanks.

 

[JDV12345]

BTW.....ran into an aircraft mechanic today and he mentioned off the top of his head a binding bolt or sidewalk bolt if say loctite would hold them in place. Also said look for specialty fasteners and modify to fit your needs. Found that interesting.