Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[bmwrd0]

I would say do to the need for a much-expanded workforce and the tools to match that, it would be easier to convert other factories, as they were bought up or contracted, for a simpler design.

Or, that wrench was a prototype. Not too far fetched as we haven't seen that variety before.

 

[RagTopTA]

I appreciate your original theory bit but at the risk of saying something dumb let me just think out loud here...your theory is Plomb panel, Plomb War, Plomb full peb, Plomb/Proto dual panel, Proto LA. panel?.....hmmm. "why go back to the old font when they had already changed it?" maybe they decided to go to panels so they'd have the flexibility to change the stamp quickly depending on certain events beyond their control which the full pebble design wouldn't allow and so the easiest thing to do was manufacture the wrenches with just the pebbled panels and a blank shaft
and then just go with the old font until... This doesn't mean your timeline couldn't be right but it might explain going "back to the old font'.

Also, I noticed, on some of the Proto LA wrenches, the pebble panel and the stamping are on opposite sides of the wrench from one another. But not all!

 

[r_olson_06]

Did anyone end up picking up the Plomb Rolls Royce contract 1/4" socket set on the bay today? Went for stupid money.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[r_olson_06]

Here is the pic.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Catfishdan]

Did anyone end up picking up the Plomb Rolls Royce contract 1/4" socket set on the bay today? Went for stupid money.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

Ha. I tried for a little while, but then things got crazy.

 

[d42jeep]

I wasn’t interested but I captured the pictures if anybody wants to see them. They weren’t great photos.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Ha. I tried for a little while, but then things got crazy.

Went to 70ish pounds and couldn't even touch it. I was super interested in the spinner tee. I asked the seller to post the detailed pics of the marking on the igntion DBEs and spinner tee. According to the VB website the stamp was Rolls Royce contract.

After losing I decided to find something to add to my collection and should be here by this weekend.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[MR.X]

I asked the seller to post the detailed pics of the marking on the igntion DBEs and spinner tee. According to the VB website the stamp was Rolls Royce contract.
,

Hi, pretty sure Rolls didn't acquire Allison Engine ( if that's what the AE represents) till like 50 years after those tools were made.

 

[r_olson_06]

Hi, pretty sure Rolls didn't acquire Allison Engine ( if that's what the AE represents) till like 50 years after those tools were made.

My bad you are correct.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Provincial]

Back to the discussion on pebbled panels:

It is my observation that full pebble wrenches are not as comfortable to the hand as the previous design. This is due to the sharper corners on the beam. They are also harder to keep clean. I also notice that the open end jaws are more often damaged than the earlier design. All these factors add up to a tool that would be less desirable to the professional mechanic. But with the art deco styling, they look COOL! Unfortunately, art deco was going out of style.

The small panel pebble under discussion has the physical shape of the pre-war design. It brings up the question: was the size panel forged in during the initial shaping of the wrench, or was it a secondary operation? I vote for the secondary operation, which explains the variation on which side the panels appear. Mistakes in production that were passed on by inspection as still being usable.

I think that Plomb experienced buyer resistance to the pebble design from professional customers, and moved to the small pebble field design to get back to the more comfortable design. This happened during the lawsuit period. Later, as Proto, they evolved to the thinner beam, then dropped the small pebble field.

After all this discussion, I cannot determine if the wrench in question was made before or after adoption of the full pebble design. It sure looks like a pre-war wrench with a different size identification!

 

[MR.X]

Back to the discussion on pebbled panels:

.

The small panel pebble under discussion has the physical shape of the pre-war design. It brings up the question: was the size panel forged in during the initial shaping of the wrench, or was it a secondary operation? I vote for the secondary operation, which explains the variation on which side the panels appear. Mistakes in production that were passed on by inspection as still being usable.

Can someone post a side by side example of the pebble panels appearing on different sides of the shank? Not talking necessarily about just being on the opposite side from the Plomb, Plomb/Proto or P&C stamping which could obviously occur even if the panels were always on the same side.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Guys,

On the current/recent 'Pebble Problem'...

I have created a timeline from a catalog perspective.

Note that none of the catalogs are dated, so the date ranges you see are my analysis. If you want to see the rationale, consult a detailed explanation and chart I posted on my "Pebble Plomb Production Dates" thread, linked here, and here.

I am showing some other pebbled tools just for context.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Basically, full pebbled panel socket drive tools and flare nut wrenches in 1944, full pebbled panel socket drive tools, flare nut wrenches, and DOE, DBE, and combo wrenches in 1946, and then wrenches with pebbled size marking panels only in the first Plomb catalog that references Proto in 1948.

 

[Outlawmws]

Here is another thought on the large vs small pebble size window -

Maybe Plvmb needed more capacity at some point, and (Pick a name - P&C? ) made some, but was not given a spec for the window size?

Just something else to keep you guys awake at night!

 

[MR.X]

Here is another thought on the large vs small pebble size window -

Maybe Plvmb needed more capacity at some point, and (Pick a name - P&C? ) made some, but was not given a spec for the window size?

Just something else to keep you guys awake at night!

"keep you guys awake at night"........ that would be quite the 1st world problem.....this is one of the places I go when I DON'T want to think about what keeps me up at night....anyway,....I had to go back just to see what exactly the question was in the first place, but I'm still not sure.
I think you're posting what anyone familiar with Plomb's sheer number of factories has to at least consider when looking at variations.
BTW, have you seen other examples of the "Large" window in question? I'm thinking I have in George Robin's collection but I could be imagining that. I'm kind of surprised we don't have people posting PICTURES of either of the examples I've asked for or other PHYSICAL evidence besides the timeline Lugz developed

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...besides the timeline Lugz developed

Speaking of which, I got some comments and questions via PM, which I will address and answer here.

- I am not attempting to show ALL pebbled tools here (although that's a good idea for a different, more extensive chart). I am just concentrating on the wrenches here, since those are the tools in question posed by Deeter's Plomb-only 1163 with pebbled size marking panels. (I am assuming that the pebbled size marking panel was applied to DOEs and combos, too, not just DBEs - which is another good question.)

- The catalogs we have access to may not be contiguous. My date ranges are the best date ranges we can ascertain based on other known facts (WPB L-216 markings, tool figures, etc). But other catalogs could be inserted into the timeline that we don't know about.

For example, and for those who didn't go read the fine print on my work, it probably bears emphasizing here that the Price List (P-4805, dated March 1948) found inserted in Catalog No. 19-R FOURTH PRINTING makes reference to a FIRST, SECOND, and THIRD PRINTING. As far as I know, those have never been found, or at least aren't available in the public domain. Obviously they all preceded the FOURTH PRINTING. The FOURTH PRINTING could not have been any earlier than 11/1946, because it contains the figure of a J.P. Danielson-made adjustable crescent wrench. The so-called "SECOND" and THIRD PRINTING might also be later than that. Or they might be earlier than that. We have no way of knowing that right now. Catalog No. 19-R REPRINT contains the figure of an adjustable crescent wrench made by Utica, Plomb's former supplier, so it cannot be any later than 10/1946. REPRINT implies that it's subsequent to the FIRST PRINTING, so the FIRST PRINTING cannot be any later than 10/1946, either. REPRINT also implies that nothing changed. That it was reissued.

The point, with respect to the Plomb-only 1163 with pebbled size marking panels, is that it is possible that Catalog 19-R SECOND and THIRD PRINTING could have different figures. Again, I think it's unlikely they would go from Plomb no pebble to Plomb size marking panels to Plomb full panel back to Plomb size marking panels and then to Plomb-Proto size marking panels. But I wanted to be fair in pointing out we don't know if we have contiguous catalog coverage in this period.

No easy or short way to explain that. Sorry.

 

[twertsy]

I have a big DOE with the large panels. Here's my contributions.

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[r_olson_06]

I have a big DOE with the large panels. Here's my contributions.

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I have same grind off restamp 3061. These seem to be more common than the Plomb Pebble 3061. Nice wrenches.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[bmwrd0]

That second one has been ground down, much like my P&C pebble puller.

 

[MR.X]

I have a big DOE with the large panels. Here's my contributions.

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I would think this would make the '41 theory for that 1163 less likely, though I guess not impossible.

 

[MR.X]

Late to the WF-38 Bog/ Plomb discussion but I have a gearhead brother in law originally from Newcastle visiting and he, don't remember how it came up, was musing about making a glass top coffee table around a Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. ( a 3 1/2 ft tall 7 1/2 ft long 1700lb. $30,000 coffee table apparently) and I pulled out an old toolbox of Packard Merlin tools and apparently that's where I had buried these rats for no obvious reason other than WW2 connection....Anyway...found 'em.....this WF-38 is chromed.

 

[3baygarage]

Ooh, a PWA by Plomb.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What's interesting about looking at Todd's 3055 and 3061 grind-off together is that they illustrate that the large size marking panels are really just the full panel with the middle taken out. And that definitely suggests that those followed the full panel. But Todd's 3055 wrench is a PROTO LA, not a Plomb, and that's actually a serious wrinkle. There are dual-marked Plomb-Proto wrenches - which preceded Proto-only LA wrenches - that have the smaller size marking panels.

 

[MR.X]

What's interesting about looking at Todd's 3055 and 3061 grind-off together is that they illustrate that the large size marking panels are really just the full panel with the middle taken out. And that definitely suggests that those followed the full panel. But Todd's 3055 wrench is a PROTO LA, not a Plomb, and that's actually a serious wrinkle. There are dual-marked Plomb-Proto wrenches - which preceded Proto-only LA wrenches - that have the smaller size marking panels.

Not just the panels, all the Proto-Plomb wrenches I have are the thinner shank etc. style. What percentage of Proto L.A. wrenches are out there with these blocky Full pebble era old stock shapes that Todd's 2 examples have? Are they confined to the larger sizes? Was it a stock on hand issue related to that? Or a specific factory anomaly? Does anyone have a 3055 with the thinner shank and smaller panels that they can post? I have no Proto Los Angeles stuff. I did find these Proto Plomb doe's and the Plomb only small panel there on the left side that are a bit more streamlined than the full pebble style.

 

[r_olson_06]

Re: ~ Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

Here is a smooth bases so far I counted 52.


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Flash Back Friday from 2016. Here was my Plomb wrench stash 52 in total. Currently at 393 wrenches with 261 of them being unique (not a dupe).

Also for Full Set Friday. Here is a full set of smooth non LA DBEs with the final wrench arriving today (1164).

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Impressive! You will run out of missing stuff soon at this rate.

 

[Provincial]

All my small field pebble Proto wrenches have the size fields orented to read properly if the wrench opening is on the left (in the case of the combination wrench) and the large opening is on the left for a DOE wrench. I don't have a DBE to examine, but someone else surely does!

If anyone with a "backwards" size field wrench could please compare and see if it is oriented differently, please post the results.

 

[RubiconJK]

Re: ~ Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

Flash Back Friday from 2016. Here was my Plomb wrench stash 52 in total. Currently at 393 wrenches with 261 of them being unique (not a dupe).

Also for Full Set Friday. Here is a full set of smooth non LA DBEs with the final wrench arriving today (1164).

Now you have room in those drawers to fill them with something else!

 

[r_olson_06]

Re: ~ Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

Impressive! You will run out of missing stuff soon at this rate.

Yes it is becoming harder and harder to fill gaps espically on wrenches.
Starting to shift focus to LA and pre 28 wrenches to keep progressing.
Only 2 pebbles and 1 smooth to finish out my DOEs.

Now you have room in those drawers to fill them with something else!

Still have my over flow Plombs in there but made some room for some of my rare wild finds such as MTF, Early Blue Point"s", Craftsman Stainless, and Blackhawk LocOn all of which I will trade off to fill holes in my Plomb board.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[MR.X]

All my small field pebble Proto wrenches have the size fields orented to read properly if the wrench opening is on the left (in the case of the combination wrench) and the large opening is on the left for a DOE wrench. I don't have a DBE to examine, but someone else surely does!

If anyone with a "backwards" size field wrench could please compare and see if it is oriented differently, please post the results.

All my examples......Combo's.. opening on the left AND the jaws angled DOWN. DOE's large size on the left AND the jaw opening on the left angled DOWN. As I recall in Lugz catalog pic the orientation of the combo's and DOE's was correct ( or at lest the same way as all my examples) but I'm thinking the artist had the DBE's oriented wrong as far as which way the boxes were angled.I should probably double check that but I'm not near my stuff right now.

 

[r_olson_06]

Digging through what I thought were spares and came up with a 3046 LA. Never knew the size existed. After some digging found it in the 1932 catalog under the brake wrenches section. The odd part about this wrench is the length which is almost twice the length of DOEs around this size. It looks like a thick tappet wrench.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[d42jeep]

Here are my finds today at a Berkeley estate sale.
-Don

 

[Provincial]

To add to the Plomb/Proto size field discussion, here is a photo of a dual-marked combination with the small pebble size fields. It is the shiny one in the center. Photo is from the internet.

This helps narrow down the date range, I think.

 

[twertsy]

Good to have a network! A bud of mine that collects woodworking tools just south of me spotted this at a lock sale. Picked it up for me for a hundo...

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[d42jeep]

Todd, I think you get a big YOU ****! on that one.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Yeah there is a HUGE low suddenly developing in Va...

 

[r_olson_06]

Good to have a network! A bud of mine that collects woodworking tools just south of me spotted this at a lock sale. Picked it up for me for a hundo...

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I will second all the jealous groans with a you ****. Packed full of tools as well.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[twertsy]

Safely in the museum, missing a drawer. Most of the tools we're Herbrand. Extension has no maker mark, but FSN 41B-311-500

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[r_olson_06]

Safely in the museum, missing a drawer. Most of the tools we're Herbrand. Extension has no maker mark, but FSN 41B-311-500

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I had that same extension that I traded to Lugz. It is a FSN we never did find the OEM on it.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,

 

[Outlawmws]

That's a spinner grip extension, right?

I have a similar one only it has a flange on the male end, Mine is marked:

Herbrand Van-Chrome [ grip ] No. S-29 Made in U.S.A.