Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[Private Lugnutz]

WBM owned one

HAHA! Nice. I missed yours. I missed AK's, too, so not quite as scarce as the midget spinners. But still, not as common as early plastic or wood.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I don’t know anyone who has those screwdriver handles

 

[Smokeshow69]

And just for examples sake, here’s my 2 Proto la screwdriver boards quote clearly showing both the old wood style handle as well as the more modern handle design. I think a reason why they made the wood handle version for so long is most of them could be abused for longer periods and had the metal striking cap on the back. Plastic ones couldn’t take the abuse and were the go to chisel or pry bar

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Plastic ones couldn’t take the abuse and were the go to chisel or pry bar

If my memory doesn't fail me, I'm pretty sure its @Mintgrun who has a plastic one that is shaped and built exactly like the wooden models. Not marked, as I recall, but looking exactly like a wooden jobbie, with plastic scales instead. Very odd. As if they were experimenting with that, then dropped it.

 

[Smokeshow69]

If my memory doesn't fail me, I'm pretty sure its @Mintgrun who has a plastic one that is shaped and built exactly like the wooden models. Not marked, as I recall, but looking exactly like a wooden jobbie, with plastic scales instead. Very odd. As if they were experimenting with that, then dropped it.

I have seen those but they are never marked at all. I believe they are an off brand

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Knock off is best bet, agreed.

 

[RubiconJK]

Screwdrivers with the new shape (96xx) marked "PLVMB" are also scarce.

Here are another couple examples. All my nut drivers are the more common handle design. I've had these long enough that I can't remember for sure, but I think I got them at the same time.

 

[Mintgrun]

You have an impressive memory, Lugs. I have two now. One flat blade and another Phillips.



I was hoping the first one I found was possibly a transition piece (although doubtful) and feedback I got here was that they were knock-offs made off-shore (and it'd been discussed before). The Phillips proved that theory to be true. The markings on the shank say NO.1 FULLY HARDENED, (which I read as NOT, at first). It seems more like a NO.2 to me.



I saw a large bright translucent green handled flat blade screwdriver recently, but left it in the bin, due to the rusted through ferrule. I don't think I've ever seen a Phillips screwdriver with a square shank, other than this one. They may be out there though; because it sort of makes sense, the way the corners line up.

I took a group shot while up in the shop, showing most of the one's I've come across.



The early "square" handled Plomb stubby phillips is no surprise, but the lighter yellow Proto next to it (with the same style handle) seems like a throwback. A bunch of them sharing that handle design are labeled P&C.



The most common ones are the newest style Proto on the right side, but there is one little Proto that matches the rare late Plomb handle. That one is at the top/right of the assortment above. Is it my imagination, or did they put a pebble background around the MFD. part number?



Tom

EDIT, Rubicon's examples above answered my pebble question. Those are nice!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Roob and Tom. Some of them do have pebble fields, Tom, under the "PLVMB" too. But that's not surprising. It makes perfect sense. Hopefully you guys can see why it's such an interesting case. The design was patented "FOR SCREWDRIVERS AND THE LIKE", which we know includes midget spinners. All of the examples marked "PLVMB" had to have been made after June 1947 and not later than February 1950. If there are no dualies, some of these could definitely be from the dualie era in 1949. Why they seemingly applied the new design with less alacrity to the midget spinners during that period, or why fewer of them survived, is the question.

 

[RubiconJK]

Tom, you and Smoke have impressive collections of screwdrivers! I'm envious. Sorry for changing topics but while I was taking pics I remembered I wanted to show off my latest obstruction wrench addition. I recently came up with this 6601 starter motor wrench and decided to also take a photo with my 1725, 1730 and 1731 while I was at it.

 

[Smokeshow69]

You have an impressive memory, Lugs. I have two now. One flat blade and another Phillips.



I was hoping the first one I found was possibly a transition piece (although doubtful) and feedback I got here was that they were knock-offs made off-shore (and it'd been discussed before). The Phillips proved that theory to be true. The markings on the shank say NO.1 FULLY HARDENED, (which I read as NOT, at first). It seems more like a NO.2 to me.



I saw a large bright translucent green handled flat blade screwdriver recently, but left it in the bin, due to the rusted through ferrule. I don't think I've ever seen a Phillips screwdriver with a square shank, other than this one. They may be out there though; because it sort of makes sense, the way the corners line up.

I took a group shot while up in the shop, showing most of the one's I've come across.



The early "square" handled Plomb stubby phillips is no surprise, but the lighter yellow Proto next to it (with the same style handle) seems like a throwback. A bunch of them sharing that handle design are labeled P&C.



The most common ones are the newest style Proto on the right side, but there is one little Proto that matches the rare late Plomb handle. That one is at the top/right of the assortment above. Is it my imagination, or did they put a pebble background around the MFD. part number?



Tom

EDIT, Rubicon's examples above answered my pebble question. Those are nice!

The most modern Proto handle you are referring to is called the Betr grip as it was called in advertising. The earlier screwdriver style we are referring to is what I would call 1st generation betrgrip. If you compare them there are slight differences and I like them even better than snap in hard handles.

 

[d42jeep]

I used to have a couple of Proto drivers in that pattern. No spinners though. I took this today of some sets in progress.
-Don

 

[Ricky Joe]

Tom, you and Smoke have impressive collections of screwdrivers! I'm envious. Sorry for changing topics but while I was taking pics I remembered I wanted to show off my latest obstruction wrench addition. I recently came up with this 6601 starter motor wrench and decided to also take a photo with my 1725, 1730 and 1731 while I was at it.

That starter wrench is specifically for Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto starter motors.

 

[Boogerman]

One big Plomb.

 

[bmwrd0]

So, we were talking about Plomb plastic handled pebble drivers?

There were four different sizes of handle, as shown, and then the spinner handle. I think Smokeshow is right in that the wooden handles were more popular, and thus more common. I with that there had been some wooden spinner handles, but what can you do.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The most modern Proto handle you are referring to is called the Betr grip as it was called in advertising. The earlier screwdriver style we are referring to is what I would call 1st generation betrgrip. If you compare them there are slight differences and I like them even better than snap in hard handles.

Same relative shape, and if I had to only guess, probably covered by the same design patent, but definitely more deeply fluted. As far as I can tell, introduced as early as 1952. The most interesting thing about the trademarked "BET'R GRIP" name is that they acquired it when they acquired J.P. Danielson. But Danielson used it for their adjustable crescent-type wrenches, which had a square instead of a hex throat.

I think Smokeshow is right in that the wooden handles were more popular, and thus more common.

It's hard to argue with heavy duty! Probably more popular and common during the production of both wood and plastic handled screwdrivers during the older style plastic handles, too. But note that the imbalance I brought up is the scarcity of new style plastic handle midget spinners marked "PLVMB" vs the new style plastic handle screwdrivers marked "PLVMB" in late '47, '48, and '49. They're clearly not very short run unicorns, as initially implied, with a few more (EDIT: including yours! very nice!) popping up already, but they are scarcer. Perhaps that's not as remarkable as I thought, though, now that I think about it, since screwdrivers were certainly more commonly purchased than midget socket sets. Maybe the ratio represented here in the last couple days (dozens of drivers to 3 spinners) is just about proportionally right to production.

There were four different sizes of handle, as shown, and then the spinner handle.

I haven't thought about the "sizes" of the plastic handles, Beemer, but if you mean the length of just the plastic handle, it looks like there were a few more than four (4). Between shank size, bit width, and overall length, Plomb made ten (10) different screwdrivers with round shanks and the same number with square shanks in 1948 and 1949. Doing some quick math between the overall lengths of each screwdriver and the lengths of the blades, it looks like the variety was much greater. I count maybe 6 or 7 different "sizes" in that chart.

 

[bmwrd0]

I was unclear, there are four distinct handle lengths in my collection

Then again, the spinner handle is different in it's dimensions, and that would be my guess as to why we see so few; it may fall under the same patent, but need an additional design to make work.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was unclear, there are four distinct handle lengths in my collection

Thanks for clarifying. Well, it looks like you have a good start at having one of each model they made, an achievement that would by default give you all seven handle sizes eventually!

it may fall under the same patent,

Design patents, covering general ornamental shape and features, are fairly liberal to begin with, but I don't think there's any doubt about the spinner handle being "THE LIKE" in the "FOR SCREWDRIVERS AND THE LIKE."

Then again, the spinner handle is different in it's dimensions,

Slightly in shape, too, from what I can tell from here, from photos. You guys who own a spinner and a screwdriver with a handle of similar size could definitely do a much closer comparison. The general look is definitely the same, though, as opposed to the general look of the older style drivers and spinner, and again, I don't think there's much doubt they were both covered by the same design patent. In fact, neither the screwdrivers or the spinner look exactly like the patent drawing.

and that would be my guess as to why we see so few;

I'm not following you on this, though, sorry. The 4769 spinner in every midget set that came with a 4769 spinner in late '47, '48 and '49 would've had the new design handle, right? And they were available to purchase separately, as well. I don't see how their slightly different dimensions and shape from their screwdriver cousins would affect their production numbers (and therefore their survival numbers) vs. screwdriver handles with a slightly different shape.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Shamefully, all I have in this general topic area is this measly PENENS spinner!

 

[bmwrd0]

"The 4769 spinner in every midget set that came with a 4769 spinner in late '47, '48 and '49 would've had the new design handle, right? "

Not necessarily. As it is a different design in its particulars, it might have delayed things while the others were put into production. And as we see such fewer numbers of them, I am inclined to think this is the cause. There is no guarantee that it was designed concurrently with the screwdriver handles.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ahhh. I think I see what you're saying now. You think they were making "PLMVB" screwdrivers with the new design handle, but it took them longer to make "PLVMB" midget spinners with the new design handle, and in the interim, they were still making the midget spinners with the older design handle. With them advertising the heck out of the new design on both screwdrivers and midget spinners and showing it on both screwdrivers and midget spinners in catalogs in 1947, 1948 and 1949 I find that far less plausible than them simply making fewer midget tools than screwdrivers due to general demand, but granted, it's possible.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Shamefully, all I have in this general topic area is this measly PENENS spinner!

That's a nice one. After a brief survey I've identified a p&c, penens, proto and the previously noted plomb.

 

[d42jeep]

Looks like these are the only late handle Plomb screwdrivers that I have.
-Don

 

[Provincial]

Given the technology of the time, and the volume of sales of each catalog item, I doubt that there was continuous production of any one variant (size, tip, or drive) during the era being examined. A particular item would be made in "runs" and the resulting stock sold off until the inventory got low and another "run" was scheduled.

Since we have no way to know what the inventory levels were, nor the sales volumes, it is all a guess about production of any one item. My guess is that there had been a recent production "run" of 1/4 drive spinners prior to the introduction of the new handle design, and Plomb waited until the inventory got down far enough to warrant a "run" of the new design handles.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Given the technology of the time, and the volume of sales of each catalog item, I doubt that there was continuous production of any one variant (size, tip, or drive) during the era being examined. A particular item would be made in "runs" and the resulting stock sold off until the inventory got low and another "run" was scheduled.

Since we have no way to know what the inventory levels were, nor the sales volumes, it is all a guess about production of any one item. My guess is that there had been a recent production "run" of 1/4 drive spinners prior to the introduction of the new handle design, and Plomb waited until the inventory got down far enough to warrant a "run" of the new design handles.

I definitely agree with this theory. We have seen them do this in the past with mixed tool box logos, mixed marking wrench sets, etc. details and consistency wasn’t their strong suit to say the least

 

[d42jeep]

I agree as well. I have plenty of the earlier ones marked on the handles and even more of the later ones marked on the shafts. They could have included the shaft marked ones in sets until right before the end, customers would never have known the difference.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It's certainly possible, but it would mean the theoretical backlog of the old style midget spinners was massive to push off production of the new style that long. Not sure I agree about customers not knowing the difference when they were extolling the virtues of the new design in ads and catalogs from July 1947 until the end of 1949. Whether they would carp about it is doubtful, though. One of those interesting things to muse over.

EDIT: The delayed production explanation is not in conflict with the lower demand (for midget socket drive tools vs. screwdrivers) explanation, by the way. It would just exacerbate it. So, I'm not arguing, per se.

 

[Mintgrun]

I wish that there had been some wooden spinner handles, but what can you do?

 

[d42jeep]

Very creative. Dual marked.
-Don

 

[Mintgrun]

Very creative.
-Don

Can't fool you for one minute, Don!

@RagTopTA deserves the creative-credit for suggesting the idea, back in this post. (#12,485 with a little more discussion in nearby posts)

Prime candidate to be put into a Proto wood handle to make a killer wood handled spinner!

I finally decided it'd be more fun to have a one-of-a-kind spinner than one with a melted handle, so I took his suggestion.



Someone had turned the little Proto Phillips screwdriver into an awl, so I sacrificed it to the cause. The spinner shank was bigger though, so it needed to be drilled out and I also drilled the **** end for the insert.






Don't worry, no nice tools were harmed in the process.



Tom

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...a one-of-a-kind spinner...

Awesome!

 

[bmwrd0]

Sweet! I made one once, had an old handle from a ground down flat blade, and mounted a 3/8" tip. Here it is amongst it's other modified bretheren:

 

[d42jeep]

I found this large Plomb DOE made in 1941 at an Oakland garage sale this morning.
-Don
A little cleaner

 

[AK4570]

More than a little late to the plastic-handled driver discussion, but here's a pic with a selection of the aforementioned.



I apologize for the headlamp-lighted photo... winter is in full swing here in the Northlands. An odd one found the same day as this photo was taken was this large "E-Z Out" broken bolt extractor. If anyone is in need of it to complete a set, let me know.



Best regards,
John

 

[RubiconJK]

I guess I should know better, but just when I thought I'd seen about every version of Plomb 1/2 drive ratchet out there I wind up finding this 5449-S recently. It is clearly the WF-38 design which wound up being labeled many different ways. I think I have 6 or 7 versions now and will take a group photo later. A quick search on this thread only resulted in one other reference to a 5449-S.

 

[RubiconJK]

Group photo of some of the many faces of Plomb 1/2 drive ratchets. I forgot to include one of my Craftsman Circle U's.

 

[3baygarage]

I guess I should know better, but just when I thought I'd seen about every version of Plomb 1/2 drive ratchet out there I wind up finding this 5449-S recently.

I was wondering what was different about that, other than the model number. I also find it quite interesting how they did all these variations of the standard design.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I guess I should know better, but just when I thought I'd seen about every version of Plomb 1/2 drive ratchet out there I wind up finding this 5449-S recently. It is clearly the WF-38 design which wound up being labeled many different ways. I think I have 6 or 7 versions now and will take a group photo later. A quick search on this thread only resulted in one other reference to a 5449-S.

Wow, I haven’t seen this variation before. Super cool!

 

[RubiconJK]

Wow, I haven’t seen this variation before. Super cool!

Thanks!

I was wondering what was different about that, other than the model number. I also find it quite interesting how they did all these variations of the standard design.

I can't see anything at all different about it. I've not taken it apart, but wouldn't expect there to be anything different there either. I suppose there could be something different metallurgically with the ratchet body but its not obvious if so. I suspect it was one of many marketing efforts to move surplus product left over from the WF contract after the war.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

In my very limited experience with Plomb ratchets, the only use of adding "-S" in a model number to denote a variant is with the 1/4-drive version of the WF-8 9/32-drive ratchet. I found one where they stamped an "S" into the handle next to the WF-8, which I interpreted as early production, and I had one with the -S forged in (WF-8-S), ostensibly later production. Clearly not the case here, when whatever the heck it means seems to be something so less significant than that it's not obvious.