plumber pricing?

[signcrafter]

I think it's funny that everyone seams to know exactly how much everybody else should be paid. And for some reason they always think everyone else in this world besides themselves makes too much.

 

[finn]

I think it's funny that everyone seams to know exactly how much everybody else should be paid. And for some reason they always think everyone else in this world besides themselves makes too much.

Yup!

 

[SGKent]

Yup!

or you can decline the job and walk away. Willing seller and willing buyer makes a sale. Always has been, always will.

 

[RegeSullivan]

We happen to have a few plumbers in the family to this day, none of them are rich. My dad gave up his business in the 70's when I was a kid. He went to work for a union shop because he just got tired of dealing with the pricing **** and bidding jobs he never got. At the time he was regularly defending a $25/hr rate in a community where the average wage was probably in the $5-7 range. He worked all the time and we would beg to go somewhere/do something fun Saturdays like all the other kids in the neighborhood. Dad would say something like, Monday pays the government, Tuesday pays the answering service, insurance company and accountant, Wednesday is for truck tools and gas, Thursday is for the shop and late pays/no pays, Friday pays for the house, water, gas electric. I work Saturdays so we can eat... You like to eat don't you!

Funny thing was, seldom was it the customers in the poor neighborhoods that were problems.

 

[johnnyradiant]

That's good. 'Flushable' wipes are the bane of most public works employees, since they aren't really flushable. They usually end up clogging a pump somewhere in the system....

Flushable wipes spur the economy on. They may be a real treat to deal with but they also generate a lot of business for plumber or public works employees, not to mention that there are spin offs too like new pumps or pipe fittings and in some case some renovation and restoration jobs. Those can all be good made in a America jobs.

 

[Scud67]

Love these "cost" posts. I have my own business and charge $135/ hr. Very few around here in my line of work.

Out of that hourly rate, 42% goes to expenses, 30% to taxes, 10% goes to the company as profit and the rest (18% or $24.30) goes to me - of course as an "employee" I have to pay income tax on that money. I work 8 months a year - due to winter weather hampering what I do.

My company sold $195,000.00 in business last year (including all materials and labor costs) which made my pay $35,100.00 - yet people think I make a "killing"..... yeah, right.

 

[nadogail]

If plumbing was as easy as many seem to think it is and as well paying as many believe it is, why don't we have so many plumbers that their price is lowered because they are all competing for our business?

NOTHING IS AS EASY AS IT LOOKS, Just ask Murphy.

 

[johnnyradiant]

So if the blockage is from the nub at the bottom of a dbl clean out, cleaning out any plugs would only require something a foot or so longer than the drop of 2-1/2'

If you dig it out yourself you've the hardest part of the job.

 

[sberry]

Digging is simple and as a plumber wouldn't want to give that part up. Money left on the table.

 

[b-boy]

Client to lender, " I want $650,000 at rates substantially lower than the market pays for money right now, and with no costs. No questions, no credit check, no proof of income, and I want it by Tuesday morning in certified funds."

Yeah, that will go over well with lenders who have saved that money.

You literally just described the cause of the 2007 housing meltdown.

 

[JRC3]

You literally just described the cause of the 2007 housing meltdown.

Oh the ironing.

My best friend was a broker from 1998 till 2006 or so. It blew my mind the things they got passed for people.

 

[signcrafter]

You literally just described the cause of the 2007 housing meltdown.

So telling people how to run their business and what they should charge is a bad thing? Maybe we need a trades meltdown so everyone can see how valuable all trades are and learn to value them and not treat them all like crooks and try to tell them how much they should charge.

 

[bbbarracuda]

Yeah, but how much is the markup on the parts?

 

[relicrecoveryspecialist]

I’ve done all of this myself, I installed my own plumbing, septic, and lateral lines. Saved me a ton of money. I’ve got a buddy who builds septic tanks. I worked at a concrete plant, and we had a truck that had extra concrete with fiber in it, so I sent him over there to pour in my buddies form. That digging would be a cinch. I’ve worked in the waste water field before, we had 23 stations to check, and clean everyday, and the leading cause of buildup at the stations was wipes, and tampons, and the occasional odd ball thing that somehow managed to make it down the toilet. I’m going to have to replace my grandmas grease trap soon and have a tractor already to dig it up, and won’t take anytime at all. You just cut the old pipe, lay a level on it when you install the new piece, be sure to add gravel then sand underneath for a firm base, and you’re good to go.


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[sberry]

The grand for the job in that neighborhood sounds pretty good.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Love these "cost" posts. I have my own business and charge $135/ hr. Very few around here in my line of work.

Out of that hourly rate, 42% goes to expenses, 30% to taxes, 10% goes to the company as profit and the rest (18% or $24.30) goes to me - of course as an "employee" I have to pay income tax on that money. I work 8 months a year - due to winter weather hampering what I do.

My company sold $195,000.00 in business last year (including all materials and labor costs) which made my pay $35,100.00 - yet people think I make a "killing"..... yeah, right.

But you're forgetting, $50K/yr. is plenty to thrive on so $35K/yr. should be plenty to survive on.

 

[Samh]

Takes all my will power to pass on this,,,, mortgage broker vs plumber. Who deserves catching the **** in this thread?

This place really needs a like button

 

[Samh]

Then you say why should you be paying for his vacations? Who paid for your vacations when you were a mortgage broker? Pretty sure your customers paid for them from what your company charged them and paid you out of that money. It amazes me when people that have zero clue on what it takes to run a business try to justify what others should be charging.

Agreed, and it always bugs me when people don't really understand how vacations actually work. Sometimes I think it is companies that perpetuate that thought in order to steal money from an employee. You don't get paid vacations, you get paid for the time you work. So if you make $50K/year with 2 weeks of vacation, you get paid for working 50 weeks per year. If you work over that, you are giving your employer free labor. Sort of like what people believe about teachers getting the summer off and getting paid for it.

 

[SGKent]

There is a price point in every transaction that is in an optimal range. If someone calls a contractor for a quote on a service, and the contractor quotes $1500 for the work, but another reputable contractor says, "That is a 3 hour job plus drive time for two of my staff. I can do it Tuesday morning for $550 labor plus $75 for the part, I'll send you the quote," guess who will get the job. When I put in my HVAC in 2004 two contractors were up around $15,000 to $20,000 for a specific system. I asked them, "is that your best price? I am going to make a decision based on the number you tell me is your best price." Both said yes. The third Carrier dealer, whom I had done business with before, came in at $8,200 for the same system and he threw in new ducting as well. Guess who got the job. The other two contractors were really pissed off when they called and found out they didn't get the job. Both offered to match. From a sales point theirs was a stupid strategy. So, when someone here says, "I just love it when people try to tell me what I should charge per hour... ." What that tells me is that person has no empathy for the client, and high empathy is one of the three traits that the most successful sales people in the world have. One cannot be a business person without the ability to sell their product to the end user. Want to sell your product or service better? Believe in your product, don't take no for an answer meaning always look for alternative solutions - a no is not always meant as a no, and peg the needle on empathy for the client.

 

[bob15]

This thread is turning into the auto parts mark-up vs flat thread. Can we not go there?

The easiest answer for the OP is get another quote or two. That will answer if it is too high for the area/location.

If the prices are still too high, and decide to do it yourself, do it with the understanding that if something goes wrong and you need to call a plumber, you might have to pay more yet.

 

[SGKent]

This thread is turning into the auto parts mark-up vs flat thread. Can we not go there?

The easiest answer for the OP is get another quote or two. That will answer if it is too high for the area/location.

If the prices are still too high, and decide to do it yourself, do it with the understanding that if something goes wrong and you need to call a plumber, you might have to pay more yet.

thank you

 

[signcrafter]

There is a price point in every transaction that is in an optimal range. If someone calls a contractor for a quote on a service, and the contractor quotes $1500 for the work, but another reputable contractor says, "That is a 3 hour job plus drive time for two of my staff. I can do it Tuesday morning for $550 labor plus $75 for the part, I'll send you the quote," guess who will get the job. When I put in my HVAC in 2004 two contractors were up around $15,000 to $20,000 for a specific system. I asked them, "is that your best price? I am going to make a decision based on the number you tell me is your best price." Both said yes. The third Carrier dealer, whom I had done business with before, came in at $8,200 for the same system and he threw in new ducting as well. Guess who got the job. The other two contractors were really pissed off when they called and found out they didn't get the job. Both offered to match. From a sales point theirs was a stupid strategy. So, when someone here says, "I just love it when people try to tell me what I should charge per hour... ." What that tells me is that person has no empathy for the client, and high empathy is one of the three traits that the most successful sales people in the world have. One cannot be a business person without the ability to sell their product to the end user. Want to sell your product or service better? Believe in your product, don't take no for an answer meaning always look for alternative solutions - a no is not always meant as a no, and peg the needle on empathy for the client.

By all means get multiple quotes. That's not what your other posts were about. You tried to justify how a trade charging x amount of dollars an hour was ripping you off because it was all profit according to your math. You forgot about things like insurance and licensing and all that other stuff and just accused the owner of screwing you over. I have no idea if his price was fair or not for your area and for the scope of work. I'm not there to see. My point was he isnt making a million dollars off of your job like you tried to show in your math.

In the case of your furnace guys, and again I'm not there and we only getting one side of the story, but we'll go with that side since that's all we have. If two came in close to each other and another comes in half price something doesnt add up. Personally I would not be going with the cheapest guy without getting a few more quotes first. Usually going with the cheapest quotes when everyone else is higher isnt a good strategy and usually leads to other problems. Not saying that happened in your case but there are hundreds of threads on the garage journal about going with the low bid and getting screwed. They usually say get multiple quotes and throw the highest and lowest out and then choose the company that gave you the best feeling. If you go with lowest bid everytime, especially if its half of everyone else, you will have issues with shady contractors.

I find it hard to believe that two companies were double the price of the third and then said they would match them. Either you found two very dishonest contractors or something else is wrong with that picture. They might have been able to drop down a couple bucks but the one company all of a sudden can take an 12 grand cut? I agree a stupid sales strategy.

My whole point was that your math was flawed. Let's use your mortgage broker job as an example. A person comes in for a home loan. Your company charges whatever percentage for their fees. So I turn around and say all mortgage brokers are crooks and stealing everyone's money. I guaranty if you use your math mortgage brokers are making way more then most plumbers because you only look at the bill and not fees and other things before actual paychecks and profits are divided out.

It's a free world and go with who ever you want. But dont start a post bashing a company or trade because you think he is pocketing every penny you write your check for. If bottom dollar is all that matters to you then find some guy off craigslist that is unlicensed and uninsured and wont pay taxes and he will probably do it for 100 bucks cash with no warranty. But at least he wont be taking you to the cleaners so he can buy his new BMW and second lake house and take a vacation on your dime. Win win right?

 

[kngelv]

What that tells me is that person has no empathy for the client, and high empathy is one of the three traits that the most successful sales people in the world have. One cannot be a business person without the ability to sell their product to the end user. Want to sell your product or service better? Believe in your product, don't take no for an answer meaning always look for alternative solutions - a no is not always meant as a no, and peg the needle on empathy for the client.

You talk about empathy for the client when you show none for the tradesman. Everything you have argued for revolves around money and what in your opinion constitutes fair pricing. You act like you know the answers yet came on this forum to gripe and get empathy on your dislike of a price quote from complete strangers. This thread has jumped the shark and I feel like I'm being kind of a d1^k with my responses but your statements make it appear as if you are in some kind of aristocratic bubble.

James

 

[PassnThru]

I really don't think the price is unreasonable. As someone who usually does things myself, I often have to suppress the urge to compare every quote against what I would spend to do it myself.
It comes down to this - when you want someone to come to your house, bring all the tools and all the required parts, and take care of your problem and assume some responsibility for it to remain fixed for a certain amount of time, you have to pay.

Unless, of course, you are related to me.
In that case, apparently, free is an acceptable price

 

[JRC3]

I just did a cost of living calculator comparison between Columbus, OH and Sacramento, CA...It says housing cost 107% more and on average costs are 38% more.

On top of that I can't imagine how much higher worker's comp and liability insurance are there. And the CA state income tax alone is over 13%, I'm afraid to know the local income tax.

So just by the opening post, "He wants $950 to do it if he digs, or $650 if I have my landscape people dig it." and minimally going by the 38% (above) cost of living alone, Comparing to Ohio we are talking it might cost to dig $589 (w/parts) and $403 if someone else digs. And...I'm guessing it has to be inspected too, that takes a fee ($60 here). And all that also takes time to file for the inspection, schedule it, meet the inspector after the plumber does his work, and then finish up after that...

The "2 hour" allowance is just ridiculous.

 

[flat350]

I'm a retired plumber and the price seems right to me.Have at it with a shovel and see how long it takes,everybody thinks it's just a hole and easy to dig.My theory these days are I'll give you a price or T+M and if you say no so be it,but call me after you've tried and failed or gave up and my price will probably go up.

 

[relicrecoveryspecialist]

I’ve done it before, not an extremely hard job, but prepared to dig, sometimes a little deeper than thought, but if you can get access it’s not too bad


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[iSpark]

I don't understand the problem here.

You have a plumbing issue so you call a plumber for a price to fix it.
He gives you a price.

You don't like the price. Ok, get more quotes. Simple eh?

At this point you have a choice, choose a plumber based on quote/s or fix it yourself. What's so hard about that?

Another thing, some high price quotes are simply that, high priced, because the person giving the quote really doesn't want the job to begin with. But hey, if you bite, then he landed a good gig.

 

[relicrecoveryspecialist]

I don't understand the problem here.

You have a plumbing issue so you call a plumber for a price to fix it.
He gives you a price.

You don't like the price. Ok, get more quotes. Simple eh?

At this point you have a choice, choose a plumber based on quote/s or fix it yourself. What's so hard about that?

Another thing, some high price quotes are simply that, high priced, because the person giving the quote really doesn't want the job to begin with. But hey, if you bite, then he landed a good gig.

Before I got my contractors license years ago, and had my own business, and had workers with those licenses, I didn’t overprice folks over jobs I didn’t want to do, but once I started my new business, and only work myself, so I save from paying insurance for other employees, and other misc stuff, I’ve actually had times I’ve overbid just to get out of doing a job. I bid a job for $25k, it wasn’t overly priced as materials, and labor were $22k, but I priced it at $25k hoping I wouldn’t get it, she called others who did the same thing, I just happened to be the fool who bid it that low.


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[SGKent]

You talk about empathy for the client when you show none for the tradesman. Everything you have argued for revolves around money and what in your opinion constitutes fair pricing. You act like you know the answers yet came on this forum to gripe and get empathy on your dislike of a price quote from complete strangers. This thread has jumped the shark and I feel like I'm being kind of a d1^k with my responses but your statements make it appear as if you are in some kind of aristocratic bubble.

James

James, seeing the customer as the enemy is not going to make you money. If I didn't have empathy for the guy I would have told him to just leave over his attempt to gouge me by doubling his published prices once he got here, and his screaming and yelling at another customer on his phone about a job while he was talking with me, and would not have figured in a tip when paying him. If I dig the dirt out I suspect that the job is about a 30 minute job and he wants $700. If that isn't gouging what is. Your apology accepted. Have good day. I am done with this thread and this forum.

 

[sberry]

You got to love this,,, figures its about a 30 minute job,,,, but is hiring it out because he doesn't have time for it.

 

[relicrecoveryspecialist]

You got to love this,,, figures its about a 30 minute job,,,, but is hiring it out because he doesn't have time for it.

Shoot if I was closer I’d do it, those are the jobs that plumbers, and contractors call “easy money”. In, and out in no time, and for the labor rate, time, and cost of material which most plumbers have on hand or get an extreme discount that labor, time, and discount will add up to some decent bucks for a “easy” job, but I’ve had some of those jobs where they are “easy money” jobs that end up turning into a nightmare due to unforeseen circumstances.!4)/5/ why on all my bids I include that, because you quote someone a price, and if something else is messed up or is worse than was visually seen then you’re the one footing that extra cost. That’s why it’s imperative to add in the unforeseen issues in the quote, and say depending on difficulty it can cost a certain amount more. Be ethical about it, don’t rip the customer off if there really isn’t any issue and you’re just looking for the extra cash, and don’t price gouge them. I usually quote them the additional parts, labor, and fuel if I have to run out, and have to go get it from somewhere else.


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[Longhair]

You got to love this,,, figures its about a 30 minute job,,,, but is hiring it out because he doesn't have time for it.

You guys didn't tell me what I wanted to hear so I'm leaving this forum..

 

[relicrecoveryspecialist]

You guys didn't tell me what I wanted to hear so I'm leaving this forum..

I love it. Several other forums I’m a member of do that


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[danfromsyr]

yer lucky if he'd even show up at your door for $300.. much less do a job digging up that shyt.
he's losing $$ just fielding your request/quote..

 

[danfromsyr]

looking at the housing market in Citrus Heights, CA most plumbers have better things todo. they're not in business to fix your stuff, they're in business to be in business.

https://www.zillow.com/citrus-heights-ca/home-values/

The median home value in Citrus Heights is $356,191. Citrus Heights home values have gone up 5.5% over the past year and Zillow predicts they will rise 4.8% within the next year. The median list price per square foot in Citrus Heights is $234, which is lower than the Sacramento--Roseville--Arden-Arcade Metro average of $248. The median price of homes currently listed in Citrus Heights is $340,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $345,200.

 

[bob15]

I am done with this thread and this forum./QUOTE]

Serious?

You're leaving a forum you've been a member for almost 10 years because of a disagreement with someone?

If you do come back, will you at least tell us what your other quotes were?

 

[JRC3]

I am done with this thread and this forum./QUOTE]

Serious?

You're leaving a forum you've been a member for almost 10 years because of a disagreement with someone?

If you do come back, will you at least tell us what your other quotes were?

I think it a joke about people asking questions and not getting the answer they wanted or expected.

DR towable backhoe. But in the end he did concede that the advice was correct. Luckily it all turned out well financially too.

 

[ezover]

So to sum it all up from those who are spewing flames -

Customer to Plumber with clean out snake - "I'll pay $100 an hour shop rate and guarantee 1 hour even if it takes you 10 minutes. If we need to do more I'll guarantee $100 an hour cash for 1 person, or $120 if you have a laborer with you, and cost of whatever the parts needed are."

Plumber to customer, "Screw you. I'll charge you what ever I want to charge you if I do the work."

Yeah, that will go over well with the customer. Better live in a one plumber county.

Client to lender, " I want $650,000 at rates substantially lower than the market pays for money right now, and with no costs. No questions, no credit check, no proof of income, and I want it by Tuesday morning in certified funds."

Yeah, that will go over well with lenders who have saved that money.

lmao.. wow you are off base. pay him a extra 20.00 to bring a helper. not even sure that covers the total cost of the helper even at min. wage.

 

[danfromsyr]

SGKent has been out of touch with HIS expectations of other people's costs/bill/services a few times before..here and in other forums.