Plumbers... saddles on 4 inch iron pipe.

[Charles (in GA)]

Backstory: A friend of mine sold the family farm just a mile down the road from me. She had to, not enough income to pay the taxes and upkeep on it and property in town about 3 miles away. The old house in town was her grandmother's and greatgrandmother's. It was built in 1878 and hasn't been lived in since about 1970 or earlier.

The old house has iron pipes from the bathroom to the septic and a guy who was replumbing and attempting to put in a shower (ten or fifteen years ago) chiseled a hole 2 inch or so in diameter in the top side of a horizontal run of the iron drain line. I need to either cut it out and add a PVC Y (which is a lot of digging to get the pipe exposed, its about half buried in the crawl space dirt) or add a PVC saddle to which I can glue more pipe, Y etc for shower and washing machine drain.

I found a PVC saddle on the internet for use on iron pipe................

And several other varieties too.

MY QUESTION, has anyone done something like this, and have they had decent success with it?

I don't want to have to completely cut out a section and install a PVC Y and rubber connectors, the cutting would be tedious to say the least. The old house is a tinderbox and I would not do anything that involves sparks from cutting.

Charles

 

[The Cobbler]

that won't meet code here in Ontario, but...

 

[brewchief]

If you can get under the pipe a snap cutter will "break" the pipe cleanly and allow you to add a wye with a couple of rubber ferncos.

The cutter is a chain type deal that wraps around the pipe, most decent plumbers will have one and many rental places have them as well.

 

[The Cobbler]

If you can get under the pipe a snap cutter will "break" the pipe cleanly and allow you to add a wye with a couple of rubber ferncos.

The cutter is a chain type deal that wraps around the pipe, most decent plumbers will have one and many rental places have them as well.

unless the pipe is weak from rust over the years , them you're in for fun trying to get a clean (straight) break.

 

[kingchevy]

You will be doing a fair amount of digging to get those u bolts around the back anyway. Might as well cut it out and do it right.

 

[Scott r c]

Yeah that saddle is redneck. No plumber worth his salt would do that. Throw some ratchet snap cutters around it and cut a wye in.

 

[jhelrey]

Might be better off calling a plumber. Sometimes they have tricks that would surprise you.

 

[G_P]

The saddle will work but its far from the right way to do it. Especially if someone chiseled a ragged hole through the pipe. Debris will catch on the ragged chiseled edge and cause a clog. Dig up the pipe and cut it and put in the fitting you need. Its extremely easy to do with fernco's.
If you cant find a snap cutter you can get special recip saw blades made for cutting through cast iron pipe. Regular blades wont work well and you will ruin a dozen of them to cut a 4" pipe in 2 places.

 

[indyokie]

I have used when into a vent line vertical 4" cast iron putting in a 2" vent - that I would do - where you are at- and down in a drain line- I would cut both end - and like others say - put a PVC wye or sanitary tee with Fernco's - it's not easy to cut into a the side of 4" cast and nothing going to tell you 100% it's a clean cut without breakage anyway. Time and effort to me - cut with a chain or take your time with a saw.

 

[big.jim]

and chains can be hard work even when you got room to swing them , mine are 36" long

 

[excavator]

A diamond blade on cut off saw is what I use in this case

 

[sberry]

I might cut a notch in it with a sawzall and use that connector if I had to. Maybe a carbide hole saw. But,,,,,,,,, I see you said its already got a hole, seems like a gift? Its big enough for the purpose and in old house, go for it, use that bolt on saddle.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I looked at a couple of Youtube videos on using the snap chain tool, looks like it works great, but the crawlspace is only about 18-20 inches tall, and if I remove a section, then I have to build a support for the upper section of the iron pipe, it sits between the outside beam of house and the first floor joist inboard of the beam, running parallel to the floor joist and beam, joists are on 24 inch spacings, so a strap would be iffy at best. Redneck I don't care, just need something that is functional and will seal and stay sealed for a decent long time.

This is an old house in not the best condition. She did expend money to replace all of the windows, and had the entire house insulated, including the floor, walls and attic, and plastic in the crawl space, plus new roof sheathing and a new roof. These old roofs didn't use sheathing, they used extremely rough boards spaces about 6 inchs apart, that the shingles were nailed to. You could look up in the attic and see the underside of the shingles between the boards. This new work was all professionally done.

The shower pan will have to be elevated, as a shower drain would end up right in line with the floor joist. The bathroom is only 42 inches wide, so the commode and wall mounted sink practically overlap, and I think a 42 inch shower will just fit on the other end of the bathroom. This is the back end of the original entrance hallway, which in the '40's or '50's was walled off and a bathroom built. Outhouse before that, with probably a tub in the bedroom.

The iron pipe is 4 inch, and the hole seems to be about 2 inch or so. I was thinking I'd use 2 inch ells and Y's and such to tie the washing machine drain and shower drain into the 2 inch saddle, using reducers as needed.

Time is of the essence and money is tight. I plan on installing a Rheem RTE 13 electric instant water heater in the bathroom to supply just the sink and future shower. It will be marginal but I think it will work. Eventually a propane instant water heater will be installed elsewhere in the house (same as what she has used quite successfully in the previous farm house) but we are trying to make things work for the time being.

Charles

 

[G_P]

If this pipe has a had a hole chiseled in it and the drains have not been used since the 70's, have you made sure the drain even works at all? Thats plenty of time for rats to have decided to build a nice nest in the pipe somewhere or for the line to have collapsed or filled with roots where it runs underground.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If this pipe has a had a hole chiseled in it and the drains have not been used since the 70's, have you made sure the drain even works at all? Thats plenty of time for rats to have decided to build a nice nest in the pipe somewhere or for the line to have collapsed or filled with roots where it runs underground.

The hole had some kind of cover on it, but loose, there is a clamp around the pipe. I suspect the people putting down the plastic on the ground may have dislodged it, not sure, the plastic is on top of it at this point. The lady has been pouring water (buckets) down the drain, that is how I discovered the hole was water droplets on the underside of the plastic. The water/waste is going down the pipe, but apparently some splashes out. Its iron pipe to the septic just outside the house. My concern is the old clay tile field. No trees but it was an apple orchard at one time. If the field appears to not work, that is fairly easy to have replaced, she has a friend with a track hoe who does septic fields and has done work for her before. There are no plants, trees or bushes anywhere nearby the iron pipe or field, and hasn't been for a good many years now.

Charles

 

[deter]

Alot of these answers are coming from people who clearly haven't work on this type of piping before. I actually live in a house with the old cast iron soil pipe, and I have actually worked on it. the snap cutter works great if you have room. the saddles work just fine, there are some in my house that have been there since the 1930s - they still function and don't leak

 

[SimS]

Fernco makes the complete saddle wye. Looks good enough for 1970's plumbing.

SimS

 

[VictorBravo]

If you cant find a snap cutter you can get special recip saw blades made for cutting through cast iron pipe. Regular blades wont work well and you will ruin a dozen of them to cut a 4" pipe in 2 places.

15 years ago I faced a similar problem. I cut a 4" cast iron waste pipe with a Sawzall 12" demo blade. It worked quite well.

That was after trying all sorts of other types of blades. Out of desperation I put that coarse toothed thing in and cut through the whole thing in about 5 minutes.

 

[75gmck25]

For a bath renovation I cut into the 4" pipe (and some smaller pipes) under my basement floor about 3 weeks ago, and due to the lack of clearance (I tried to not take out too much cement) and the thickness of the pipe, it took a while.

The under-slab pipe was XH cast iron (heavy duty), and I would guess it may not work as well with the chain cutters since the pipe walls are very thick. A diamond blade on the sawzall worked fairly well on the smaller pipes, but went very slowly on the 4". My hands got tired from just holding the saw in place.

Then I switched to a 4" angle grinder with a good cutoff wheel (it was listed as correct for cast iron) and things went a lot faster. I was able to cut all but the last couple inches on the bottom, where I hadn't taken out enough cement and dirt to get the grinder in around the pipe. I cut the last few inches from the top with a long sawzall blade.

I would definitely use the angle grinder if you have clearance to get it around the pipe. Its way faster than the diamond blade on the sawzall.

Bruce

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Possibly in the future when the bathroom is completely rebuilt the iron pipe can be cut below the saddle and all of the run from there up to the sink and commode can be easily replaced. For now I located a saddle exactly like I pictured with a 2" slip on it, seal and u bolts for $14. Thanks for the suggestions. Never heard of a snap cutter before this.

Charles

 

[rsanter]

I have used the saddles from NDS or flo-control with great success. Theirs look way better than that POS.
The ones from NDS go all the way around the pipe and clamp on. They seal with an O ring but I would use some black adhesive silicone as well

Bob

 

[mygarageone]

If you are only talking gray water and a temporary hook up , use that saddle.
The water will flow in the proper direction if there is pitch on the pipe. The only thing is many times temps become permanent after a few wks , out of sight of of mind.
Some times you have to do what you got to do.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Installed the saddle today. The pipe is not iron. Turns out it is black fiber pipe. The stuff up the line at the sink and commode is iron, then they switch to the fiber apparently. The pipe appears to be in good shape and the 2 inch hole in the top of it was neatly cut. It had a split rubber Fernco type coupling around it, but the clamps had never been tightened up. I was unable to use the rubber sheet gasket, as the saddle would not fit, so I cleaned the pipe throughly and loaded it up with silicone sealant (RTV) and installed the saddle. I was careful to not overtighten the u bolts, but the saddle won't be going anywhere. Should work OK. Hopefully we'll get some water running in the sink and commode on Friday. Rained like crazy on Tuesday and there were lots of mosquito out today.

Guy came by today and moved a huge pile of coal that has been behind the house for many years, another guy who does blacksmithing is going to come by and load it up eventually, and the mess of dirt and ground rock around the new well got distributed also, along with removing a hump behind the house that was pushing water right under the house. Bobcats with someone who knows what they are doing, make for fast work. Ground was too wet to really finish off the graded areas however.

Charles