Plumbing compressed air question

[DeathMagnetic]

Hey Guys,

so im running some 3/4 copper for airline ... in the past i have soldered all the connections. I plan to solder most of them this time as well. BUT, there are a couple tight spots that i will have to climb pretty high to do this. Have any of you used brass unions like this?

thanks,

JOe

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Everflow-BRUN0034-NL-3-4-FIP-Brass-Union-Lead-Free?gclid=Cj0KCQjw09zOBRCqARIsAH8XF1bZp2shiZ10ktCDJQbS0BnQIwuNZR7-jeQ-m9v4nz7slcS_0SEZFpIaAsAdEALw_wcB

 

[The Cobbler]

I would use either a flare fitting or perhaps compression fittings in those tight spots

 

[fsae0607]

If it's high and tight, I would use compression fittings.

 

[Dagny]

that union has pipe threads. you would still have to solder a male adpt. on. get a scrap piece of duct work or similar tin and bend it in behind pipe then solder it with no unions.

 

[pattenp]

Try Sharkbites, they're rated to 200PSI.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SU46IM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Steves32]

Pre-fab the hard to get at section on ground.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Those are,really common for black pipe.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-Stephens-N62-006LF-3-8-OD-Chrome-Plated-Compression-Union-Lead-Free

I cant seem to find one in 3/4 x 3/4.

 

[DeathMagnetic]

thanks guys, the sharkbites may be the way to go.. im planning to pre-assemble sections on the ground ( soldered ) then join the larger pcs with couplers where i cant squeeze myself into

just another way to fit 20 lbs of **** into a 5 lb bucket...

Joe

 

[kbs2244]

Do not be afraid to use epoxy,

 

[Firebrick43]

Are you using 3/4 copper pipe or 3/4 soft copper tubing? I am going to assume pipe but some are saying to flare??? Can't say I have seen flaring tools or fittings for pipe, but hey I just have a dozen different pro flaring tools in 45 degrees, 37, double and bubble flare?


As Steve 32 stated I would try to prefer all I could on the ground.

The do make sweat on unions. http://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-33582-3-4-Copper-Union?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9uHOBRDtARIsALtCa958CyvZldiyQDhME5KYLsOPV21AhMs3eZWD2s1SwUk5_H4dSZ7KR_4aAqk_EALw_wcB

Lot cheaper than the one you were looking

My opinion of shark bites are pretty poor as a permeant solution. The idea isn't new as I personally have been using SMC, Parker, and festo push to connect connectors for 20+ years. After 10-15 years they will leak due to the orings deteriorating. Shark bites have been out now long enough that they are starting to fail. A coworker had 10k damage to his house that the previous owner/plumber had installed a leaked slow enough and long enough to do serious damage to the subfloors. It finally burst and ruined carpets and drywall in other rooms and the found the long term damage then.

 

[Bill C]

I don't see how a union up high is any easier? Frankly any threaded connection will be just as time consuming and challenging at the end of a ladder. Plus you also have to apply some leverage to snug it up, which means you need to be plenty stable up high. Soldering a joint takes almost no time at all, and can be done pretty easily even with out-stretched arms. With pipe 3/4" or less, the joints gets up to temp real fast and you can usually fill the joint from one spot and let the capillary action pull the solder all the way around. So if it's just trying to connect two straight sections of copper in a up-high place, I'd use a slip coupler without any internal stops. That allows the coupler to slid completely onto one of the pipes while the other is put in place.
Also, since it's up high, you probably want to be one-and-done. Every union I've installed has required some fiddling to make it leak free.

 

[pattenp]

If you look at RapidAir systems they use connectors like SharkBites. To talk about the problems of SharkBites for water plumbing doesn't relate to airlines.

 

[PoorOwner]

curious.. I am going to do my garage soon with 3/4 copper. What are you using to hold the pipes on ceiling etc? I got a setup with threaded rod. But I am not sure why it needs to sort of suspend from the ceiling. Although that would make it easier to solder and not burn things up.

 

[4cyclic]

I use 7/8" size for 3/4 copper and small lengths of Unistrut,.

http://www.blueridgecompany.com/radiant/hydronic/509/hydra-zorb-cushion-clamps

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Pre-fab the hard to get at section on ground.

This.

Tommy

 

[Firebrick43]

If you look at RapidAir systems they use connectors like SharkBites. To talk about the problems of SharkBites for water plumbing doesn't relate to airlines.

Yes it does relate. The Parker, SMC, and festo fittings I was talking about are air fittings. Just because it's air doesn't mean it won't leak. And a leak in the future means disassembly. If it's already difficult to assemble it may be impossible to disassemble without cutting or unsoldering something up stream. A well made soldered joint is good for life.

At least with rapid air the tube can be bent and some what callapsed to remove and replace. But I personally wouldn't pay that kind of money for rapid air either when you could have soldered copper for less.

The only thing that doesn't relate is the damage done with water vs just an annoying energy wasting air leak.

 

[pattenp]

.....

The only thing that doesn't relate is the damage done with water vs just an annoying energy wasting air leak.

I'm not claiming the SharkBites will never leak when used on airlines. I just didn't see the relevance of talking about the thousands of dollars of damage done to someone's house by a water leak from push-on connectors as if that was a reason not to use them on airlines. I can speak from experience of having the ridgid pipe style of the RapidAir for going on 20 years and none of my couplings have leaked. But that's not to say one won't start leaking tomorrow. There is always a trade off for quick and easy.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have always wondered why you don't see much use of compression fittings in the US (very common in EU). I always incorrectly assumed they would only worked on annealed (soft) copper. Wrong ! And the ferrule (olive) can be removed without damaging the pipe with the proper tool (not a Dremel and cut off wheel).

Any future major plumbing projects will be PEX with copper stub outs and compression 1/4 turn stops.

 

[Firebrick43]

I have always wondered why you don't see much use of compression fittings in the US (very common in EU). I always incorrectly assumed they would only worked on annealed (soft) copper. Wrong ! And the ferrule (olive) can be removed without damaging the pipe with the proper tool (not a Dremel and cut off wheel).

Any future major plumbing projects will be PEX with copper stub outs and compression 1/4 turn stops.

Our German made machines at work use nearly all compression fittings. They are EO style and use them on pressures up to 3000 psi on hydraulics. They are ok and assemble easier that others such as JIC. The "olive" is a rubber and steel contraption and many of the elbows and terminating fittings use a tapered plug with an oring. On 5000 psi systems they go to JIC. One bad thing about compression fittings on hard tubing is fitting a straight tube between to hard point under 20" in length. The tube has to go somewhat inside the fitting and there is no was to get it out/in unless you remove components. JIC you can nearly always flex things to slip in. I still think JIC and 45 sae flares are superior overall.

One thing those Europeans do that our plumbers don't is bend and expand hard copper pipe. Ridgid makes the ratcheting benders and expanding tools. This reduces fittings(possible leaks) and increases flow. Also reduces cost as the fittings are expensive.

Rothenberger even makes Tee extractors so one can put branch lines or make manifolds with no fittings. Although I understand not doing this on most plumbing as you need at least an air/acetylene torch to silver braze as solder isn't strong enough

 

[DeathMagnetic]

Who ever did the gas line at my workshop did a terrible job, so far i have the old line ripped out.. and started replacing it. i will have to get some custom lengths cut and threaded.. then ill be moving on to the air line.. the original air line was black pipe.. and i added rigid copper to it.. but now im starting from scratch with all 3/4 rigid copper... Lots of good ideas here.. ill post my progress.