Plumbing Conundrum - What am I missing.

[e015475]

I'm stumped.

The wife was complaining that the kitchen sink wasn't draining, so I dutifully disassembled the trap expecting to find a clog - nothing.

Got the 25' drain snake out and went the full distance out and put everything back together - still won't drain, so I figure the clog is out of reach of the auger.

The local HD doesn't have an auger any longer than mine to rent, so I cut the 2" ABS waste line about 15-20' from the offending sink and snaked the line 25' up the pipe and 25' down the pipe from the cut I'd made. I assumed the snake would probably head up the vent stack instead of poking its head out at the kitchen sink. but I'd already snaked it under the sink anyway. The wife said she could hear plenty of commotion in the wall while the auger was running, but no head poking out in the sink cabinet, so it must have gone up the vent - I couldn't see it poking our the vent stack, but it might be more than 25' from where I cut the waste line,

I reconnected the ABS waste line with a rubber coupler and turned on the kitchen sink - still won't flow, even though I've snaked the line 50' or so from the sink.

There's another intercept to the bigger waste line from a bathroom sink about a foot or so upstream from the kitchen sink intercept. I ran the water for about 15 minutes and it was fine, so the downstream line from the kitchen sink/bath sink intercepts seems clear.

So I remove the rubber coupler I'd just installed off the kitchen sink waste pipe and leave it open and turn on the water in the kitchen sink, and after a minute or so there's just a trickle and the water is backing up in the sink - so the clog is in the pipe I've snaked twice? WTF?

Noting that it always takes a while for the sink to back up, I poured quarts of water down the drain in rapid succession to see how much water the waste pipe took before it started rising up in the sink - right at 6 quarts. If my math is right that's about 9' from the drain. That'd put the obstruction at about 4' in on a 20' straight run to the larger waste line (that I've snaked both ways)

What am I missing? I'm stumped.

 

[pattenp]

Sounds like you need to rent a drain inspection camera.

 

[jd_1138]

Are the pipes and lines angled down toward the main line? If they are uphill or flat that can cause water to get backed up.

 

[CoogarXR]

Does your snake have a small auger head on it? Is there a chance it just bunched up in the pipe and didn't go the distance?

 

[chris142]

Does your snake have a small auger head on it? Is there a chance it just bunched up in the pipe and didn't go the distance?

Or went up a vent pipe

 

[hans109h]

Is the vent clear? Perhaps a drain bladder would help.

 

[carlaisle]

Is the 25' snake you mention similar to this:

RIDGID Power Spin+ 1/4 in. x 25 ft. Hybrid Drain Cleaning Snake Auger (Manual or Cordless Drill Operated, Tool Only) 57043 - The Home Depot

Select this light-duty Power Spin tool from RIDGID for cleaning drains effectively. Comes with a comfortable handgrip for your convenience.

www.homedepot.com

If so, those fail more often than they succeed. What you need is something more like this:

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/k400-drum-machine

They are available at most tool rental places. Make sure it comes with the cutter heads. Don't start out trying to push the 2" cutter head down the blocked 2" line. Start small and work your way up. Try to run the auger in the same direction water would normally flow. If I was at the rental place to pick up the auger, I would grab the camera while I was there. At this point you would definitely be time ahead and possibly money, too, to have just called a plumber in the first place.

 

[e015475]

Is the 25' snake you mention similar to this:

RIDGID Power Spin+ 1/4 in. x 25 ft. Hybrid Drain Cleaning Snake Auger (Manual or Cordless Drill Operated, Tool Only) 57043 - The Home Depot

Select this light-duty Power Spin tool from RIDGID for cleaning drains effectively. Comes with a comfortable handgrip for your convenience.

www.homedepot.com

If so, those fail more often than they succeed. What you need is something more like this:

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/k400-drum-machine

They are available at most tool rental places. Make sure it comes with the cutter heads. Don't start out trying to push the 2" cutter head down the blocked 2" line. Start small and work your way up. Try to run the auger in the same direction water would normally flow. If I was at the rental place to pick up the auger, I would grab the camera while I was there. At this point you would definitely be time ahead and possibly money, too, to have just called a plumber in the first place.

That is very similar with

a provision for attaching a portable drill.

I decided to cut my losses and call a plumber. The first thing he asked me was if he could get a machine similar to the Rigid into the crawl space and kitchen.

Looks like the classic case of having brought a knife to a gunfight.

Or went up a vent pipe

Since I didn't see it poke the auger out under the sink when I went at it from the crawl space below the kitchen, I have to assume it did. But I snaked it from the kitchen which should have cleared the pipe from the kitchen sink to the vent.

It'll be interesting to hear what the plumber finds


Thanks to all that responded - truly appreciated

 

[e015475]

The plumber came this morning with a large Rigid snake. He ran the snake for 30' three times and the sink still wouldn't flow.

He brought in his camera and went down through the kitchen and hit water at about 9-10' and the camera head stopped at 11' and couldn't move further.

The plumber says the easiest fix is just to replace the 20' of ABS in the area of the clog in the crawl space. There's a belly of about a half pipe diameter where the clog is and he says he doesn't care for how the pipe aligns running to the intercept and is going to redo it.

I bought this house a couple years ago and it had been sitting unoccupied for about 17 years. Built in 2002, it was probably occupied for only a couple years on and off before I bought it. My theory is there was grease poured down the drain at one time and there was plenty of time with water evaporated out of the traps while the house sat for waste to harden on the walls of the pipe. It probably hardened where the slight belly is at in the crawl space and went on as successive layers between infrequent occupancy

I'll ask the plumber to cut the pipe at the clog and see what's inside.

Thanks everyone!

Update - big chunks of very hard grease right at the belly of the waste pipe

 

[75gmck25]

In addition to grease, I've found clogs that I attribute to paint residue.

Most paint is now water based, and painters like to clean up using the first water source they find. In my case they cleaned it up in the bathtub, but did not flush it afterwards with enough water to move all the paint residue through the pipe. Once it all dried out there were some significant clumps remaining in the horizontal pipe connected to the drain.

 

[75gmck25]

In addition to grease, I've found clogs that I attribute to paint residue.

Most paint is now water based, and painters like to clean up using the first water source they find. In my case they cleaned it up in the bathtub, but did not flush the pipe afterwards with enough water to move all the paint residue through the pipe. Once it all dried out there were significant clumps remaining in the horizontal pipe connected to the drain.

 

[e015475]

Well I'm $425 poorer than I was before the plumber showed up and I'm going to be very careful about what I put down my drains, paint included, from now on. The same guy installed my Reznor garage heater last year and did a great job. He's competent, gets the job done quickly and neatly, answers the phone and shows up promptly- as I 'age out' he's the kind of tradesman I like to deal with.

 

[andyvh1959]

Make sure the vent line is completely clear. All the snaking and drain cleaning is meaningless if the vent is blocked. My house is a 1973 built tri-level on a heavily wooded 1/2 acre lot. My kitchen sink gurgled/burped for years no matter how many times I cleared the drains. Finally got to clearing the vent line from the roof to the multiple connections under the kitchen (which is above my office). Tried drain cleaner down the vent many times, even the nasty **** that is "garaunteed" to work, but no gain. Finally got to the vent line where it connects to the drain lines, disconnected it to drain into a 5-gal bucket, up top repeated snaking finally pushed the black, thick, gooey debris plug that had built up in a run of the vent line. Also found a section of vent line in the attic that either was never installed with the right pitch, or sagged into a negative pitch, so I corrected that. Now for the past two years the sink and dishwasher drain normally, no issues, no burping/gurgling. I also made a cap out of black ABS plastic pipe for the vent that allows full air flow but no way the debris (leaves, rain, etc) can get in the vent stack. All good now.

 

[Nick Rivers]

Could have had the pipes cleaned with a hydro jet. My plumber charged me $125.00 and showed me the video of him running the camera down the system.


This guy is in Australia and is awesome to watch:

Cutting through blockage and a chicken with a hydro jet:

 

[Metal-Marc]

Make sure the vent line is completely clear. All the snaking and drain cleaning is meaningless if the vent is blocked. My house is a 1973 built tri-level on a heavily wooded 1/2 acre lot. My kitchen sink gurgled/burped for years no matter how many times I cleared the drains. Finally got to clearing the vent line from the roof to the multiple connections under the kitchen (which is above my office). Tried drain cleaner down the vent many times, even the nasty **** that is "garaunteed" to work, but no gain. Finally got to the vent line where it connects to the drain lines, disconnected it to drain into a 5-gal bucket, up top repeated snaking finally pushed the black, thick, gooey debris plug that had built up in a run of the vent line. Also found a section of vent line in the attic that either was never installed with the right pitch, or sagged into a negative pitch, so I corrected that. Now for the past two years the sink and dishwasher drain normally, no issues, no burping/gurgling. I also made a cap out of black ABS plastic pipe for the vent that allows full air flow but no way the debris (leaves, rain, etc) can get in the vent stack. All good now.

You're late for the party man. LoL Read the whole thread before replying.