plumbing in outside walls?

[Innovate1]

The water supply line comes up inside the detached garage. Will have heat and AC. One corner is walled off so may just heat that section during long periods of non-use (which will be infrequent). Would like a hose bib outside on the opposite corner. Thinking about if I should run the line in the walls/ceiling or just run it on the surface inside. 2 x 6 walls so could put it in the wall with nail plates. Would look cleaner but also would have to be careful when fastening things to the wall to not hit it. Thinking it might be better to just run it up near the ceiling.

However it is run I figured I would put in a way to blow out this section of piping. Not sure how I would ever drain the incoming line if I wanted to let the whole building get cold.

 

[MushCreek]

I think if you run PEX, and open and drain the lines for the winter, you'll be fine. I do that with my barn every winter, and pour RV antifreeze in the drain traps and toilet. It's probably better if you can blow it out, but PEX is fairly tolerant of freezing. I made a fitting out of pipe components that screws onto my work sink, with an air coupler so I can attach an air hose and blow it out. If you use a PEX manifold, you can shut off just the things you want. Put a drain at the low point of the line you want to empty.

 

[CraigStu]

I'd run it on the inside surface. One less thing to have to worry about remembering and doing.

 

[Innovate1]

Any suggestions on making it look good on the inside? Could run it near the ceiling but could also run it around lower. Think higher would be more out of the way. With PEX unless I get straight sticks and maybe even then it is going to be a bit wavy. Could frame a small trough around it. If I use white it will blend in some. Not sure if painting it is an issue.

 

[matt_i]

Not sure how I would ever drain the incoming line if I wanted to let the whole building get cold.

Where does the incoming line originate? In the house?

If so you just have to have an isolation valve for the shop, boiler drain, and can hook up compressed air right there.

Then head for the shop and open the fixtures. Maybe you have a different setup?

 

[Stuart in MN]

The water lines to the sink in my upstairs bathroom run for a few feet in the outside wall. It can get very cold here in Minnesota but I've never had problems with them. If the wall is well insulated and the room is always heated (with the pipes on the inside of the insulation), I think they should be okay.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Any suggestions on making it look good on the inside? Could run it near the ceiling but could also run it around lower. Think higher would be more out of the way. With PEX unless I get straight sticks and maybe even then it is going to be a bit wavy. Could frame a small trough around it. If I use white it will blend in some. Not sure if painting it is an issue.

Run the PEX inside some 1-1/2" conduit.

 

[nadogail]

No problem, just move to a more temperate climate. I did.

 

[Innovate1]

No problem, just move to a more temperate climate. I did.

Wow. Coronado. Nice! Was there a few years in the Navy. But I doubt there is much space there for a large garage. And the cost of living is high. There are lots of other places of course. I have a few more years before retirement and we discussed moving but are planning to stay here.

I like the idea of putting it in conduit. But think I will use plumbing PVC. Same idea but that way it is clear it is water and also the color is already white.

On the freezing... The line from the street comes close to the detached garage on the way to the house. So I put in a tee and buried shutoff valve like at the meter. It goes from there underground and comes up inside the detached garage. I don't ever intend to let it get below freezing but we have had an extended power outage for about a week due to an ice storm and want to be prepared for something like that in the rare case it happens. During the ice storm I used a generator to heat the house a few times (it was vacant and being renovated) but then decided that was a lot of work. I blew out the water lines. Where the line came in had a union so I opened up the line and ran a tube down it. Sucked the water out with a shop vac below the level it would freeze. Thinking I will so something similar here. Either a tee with a plug in one end so I can go straight down the pipe or a union I can break. I can blow out the lines in the building from the same spot IF I ever need to.

As for running the pipe in the wall - yes, if I keep the pipe toward the inside of the wall it won't freeze. But the negatives are having to drill studs and route the pipe and having to keep track of the location so I don't hit it with an nail or anchor by mistake. Running it on the surface avoids all that. If I do it neatly it will look fine - it is a shop after all.

 

[stokefire7]

One thing to consider is pex and uv exposure (from fluorescent lighting).

 

[stokefire7]

One thing to consider is pex and uv exposure (from fluorescent lighting).

Just checked Rehau's website and it's stated fluorescent exposure is insignificant.

 

[dfiler2]

Be careful using PVC, it doesn't take much of a freeze to break it. PEX on the other hand can be frozen many times without damage.

 

[Jking24]

Be careful using PVC, it doesn't take much of a freeze to break it. PEX on the other hand can be frozen many times without damage.

I think the op was saying he may use the conduit idea but instead of conduit use regular pvc with pex inside

 

[lolaetype]

Thinking about if I should run the line in the walls/ceiling or just run it on the surface inside. 2 x 6 walls so could put it in the wall with nail plates. Would look cleaner but also would have to be careful when fastening things to the wall to not hit it.

Why not run it vertically along a stud and through the top plate, then horizontally and drop it back down through the top plate and along a stud to where you want it to come out on the exterior wall. You could shield the vertical sections in a length of 1/2" conduit clipped to the stud.

 

[dfiler2]

I think the op was saying he may use the conduit idea but instead of conduit use regular pvc with pex inside

Ah, got it, that make sense.

 

[Innovate1]

I think the op was saying he may use the conduit idea but instead of conduit use regular pvc with pex inside

Exactly.

 

[Innovate1]

Why not run it vertically along a stud and through the top plate, then horizontally and drop it back down through the top plate and along a stud to where you want it to come out on the exterior wall. You could shield the vertical sections in a length of 1/2" conduit clipped to the stud.

That would put it in the attic and 4" up in the insulation since it has to cross the trusses. Since the total insulation is about 16" I suppose that's still sufficiently close to the inside but running inside seems easy. Covering the bends is harder. May just leave them exposed. Could bend a nice radius on the PVC.

One thing I have been puzzled by with PEX. I have seen several professional jobs and they put in 90 degree fittings rather than just bend the tubing. I thought one of the big pluses was the reduction in fittings. I admit the nice square corners look sharp but practically they restrict flow and are a possible leak point. Am I missing something?

 

[Innovate1]

Just checked Rehau's website and it's stated fluorescent exposure is insignificant.

That is what I found as well.

And I don't plan to have any fluorescent lights. Haven't figured out my lights yet but likely LED.

 

[stokefire7]

So it probably won't be a frost free hose bib as you would drain for winter ?

 

[stokefire7]

If you wanted to make provisions for a non heated shop. A tee in your service, potable supply to the run of the fitting (garage supply off the branch) and a plug in the end of the run of the fitting. This allows you to shut off the service at the curb, remove the plug and **** out the water to below frost depth which is 30".

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Domestic water lines in an outside wall? Nope. Not in my neck of the woods.

Tommy

 

[Innovate1]

If you wanted to make provisions for a non heated shop. A tee in your service, potable supply to the run of the fitting (garage supply off the branch) and a plug in the end of the run of the fitting. This allows you to shut off the service at the curb, remove the plug and **** out the water to below frost depth which is 30".

Very similar to what I described earlier I think.

I don't intend on having a non-heated shop. Will be frost free faucets so I don't have to drain them every year. But want to have the capability to let it freeze in case of a power outage or long term non-use for some reason.

 

[Sureshot]

I had water lines in the exterior wall of my shop in Canada and the only time I had an issue was when the cabinet doors were closed in very cold weather making a barrier to the heated shop. One thing to keep in mind if you run through the attic is that a metal fitting will be your freeze point and more likely to split than the hose.

 

[stokefire7]

Very similar to what I described earlier I think.

I don't intend on having a non-heated shop. Will be frost free faucets so I don't have to drain them every year. But want to have the capability to let it freeze in case of a power outage or long term non-use for some reason.

You did say that.

 

[CraigStu]

40 yrs ago we had a really nicely finished inside steel building for a shop. Well insulated. But we still had the pipes to the bathroom freeze. After the 2nd freeze we moved them to inside the wall. 3 yrs ago in suburb DC we had a really nice 4000sq feet house. Laundry room had water feeds in an outside wall. Other end of the house had a bath w/ tub, shower and sink all on an outside wall. The laundry room feeds froze if under 25 for multiple days. The bathroom never had a problem. I tried to fix the laundry but the wall had tile on it and too much was visible to remove it. I put a 16in square grill in the ceiling below where the basement was heated so tried to get some of that heat into the wall. Gave up and just let the sink drip overnight when temps dropped. In the house we just had built we made sure to arrange baths etc so no pipes in the outside walls. BTW our builder did the long bends in the pex vs 90 deg angles. His feeling was that was one of the major advantages of pex over everything else.
Innovate1, I think your choices of how to run the pex simply depends on how finished of a look you are after. Me, I'd run the pex right on the inside wall surface. I don't remember if it will be hot and cold or not. I am thinking cold pex won't sag much at all but hot may. My previous garage had electrical outlets in conduit on the wall surface. I know that is different but I actually liked it. Made it easy for me to tap into it and add a few more outlets.

 

[wes73]

I have the water line coming into an insulated closet (before I had permanent heat). I then created a manifold out of pex fittings and valves for each run and a hose bib for hot and cold. I have a washing machine hook up with both hot and cold water recessed in the wall near my main OHD and a normal cold water hose bib near my other OHD. All are located inside. The pex is ran through the ceiling. It's ran like an arc in the ceiling to create a high point. This makes it easy to drain, open all hose bibs and it drains by gravity. I have it setup so i can easily turn the water on in late fall/early spring, wash my vehicles with warm water, and then drain it.

 

[finn]

The pipes to the bathroom in my shop run from the well inlet in the boiler room, up to the ceiling, across a small vestibule/ hall, and done a wall between the bathroom and unheated but enclosed lean to addition..

Three pex pipes, a hot, plus a cold for the sink and another for the toilet, which is right adjacent to the sink.

The toilet pipe freezes when the temperature in the lean to addition gets below 16 degrees, despite the fact that the bathroom is at least sixty degrees.

Thaws again when the lean to gets to the mid twenties.

Must be a hole in the insulation, since only that one pipe freezes.

Don’t run your pipes in an outside wall unless absolutely necessary, and use pex. It seems to survive repeated freeze cycles.

 

[swamplife]

I had to put my shower valve and head in an exterior wall. Had no other options with it being the only bathroom. Time was also not on my side because the tub was sinking more day by day.

I ended up building out a 4 foot section for the wall. So the original wall was insulated, then I put a vapor barrier in, then built out another 2x4 wall. I have a plumbing access in the built out wall with the shutoffs, and that has ventilation into the wall cavity where the shower valve is.

Coldest it's got since I have done it is 15 degrees. However, I currently don't have an exterior wall in part of the bathroom, so it was also pretty cold inside the bathroom too.

 

[larry_g]

Where I'm at we only have a few days of freezing temps a year. On the days that it is going to drop into the 20's I drip a few faucets to keep water flowing and we all know that flowing water does not freeze. Keep this in the back or your mind so if you get in a jam/power out/system not drained then just keep the water flowing in the pipes and you'll be good. The cost of a few gallons of lost water is cheaper than a busted pipe. Be creative, put a hose bib at the end of the line, run a hose out to a sprinkler and create ice art.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[thammel]

I have one place in my mudroom where the pipes run for a short while in the outside wall. The walls are 2x6 and the pipes run on the inside of the insulation. To ensure that they don't freeze I put a return are grille in front of them - this should keep them at room temperature. Have not had a problem in 10 years.

 

[jkuro]

Use copper on the inside. Pex in conduit is to much work. Provide a drain and shut off valve so you can drain it down. Make sure to put a slope on the pipe to your drain valve. Paint pipe to match wall color.

 

[Innovate1]

I am thinking PVC or some sort of cover up to the ceiling to protect the lower parts where they are more likely to get banged up. No real need for any protection on the ceiling so I can just run it on the surface. Not planning to drain it every winter - using a long frost free faucet that shuts off inside. Not sure how well these work with plastic pipe on the inside as most of the metal is outside so it might still freeze at the shutoff. Maybe the water in the pipe will conduct enough warmth to keep it from freezing. Copper pipe inside would conduct a lot more heat to it.