Plumbing Oxy/Acetylene into shop

[DieselSaves]

I don't know if this is a common topic but I'd like to build a manifold for the shop that would let me plug my torch into two or three spots and keep my bottles out of the way. The tech school I went to had a room full of bottles away from the work area and piped the gasses to quick connects around the shop. All we needed were shorter lengths of hose for our torches and just plugged them in where we were working.

Is there anything to do or stay away from to make this work well? Is soldered copper a good line material or is steel pipe better?

 

[Thumper68]

I wouldn't do this for a few reasons, the first being leak down on the tanks when left open for long periods of time, just wasted cash.

Second would be the potential for leaks and then needing a new shop and new tools with no insurance to cover the costs.

Just get yourself a good big wheeled cart and keep them in the shed and roll them in when needed.

 

[rsanter]

I would say that unless you use a torch a lot it's not worth the cost or problems that can arise

Bob

 

[arrowhead]

It's a good idea and all BUT - even though it's done like how you saw in school I wouldn't be using quick connects from Lowes for this. You would need to high quality disconnect fittings. As far as piping the gas, propane and natural gas is piped to heaters in the houses and garages all the time so I don't think that's such a big deal. But the quick connects are your weak link.

 

[kf4zht]

I would definitely get the quick connects specifically for torches. Not only do they seal better but are keyed so you can't mix up the connections.

I have always just chained my tanks to the wall and used some long hoses to get where ever I need to. Being said I never have worked in a shop over about 30x40

 

[DieselSaves]

It's a good idea and all BUT - even though it's done like how you saw in school I wouldn't be using quick connects from Lowes for this. You would need to high quality disconnect fittings. As far as piping the gas, propane and natural gas is piped to heaters in the houses and garages all the time so I don't think that's such a big deal. But the quick connects are your weak link.

I have a couple sets of disconnects for the torches. Two sets I bought new and the rest came from a remodel at the school I mentioned. All of them have been sitting for a while, waiting for my plans to come to fruition.

 

[aggierailroad]

Just make sure you have flash back arrestors at your wall connections. New code requires it even if your torch has an integral one.

We use black iron or an aluminum/poly crimp pipe at our shop. 100x300 ft piped gas and bulk storage tanks. It is handy, and I like a guy with vision, but it's a costly upgrade for a one man show. I can help you with pipe sizing if you want to go ahead.

 

[dr_clyde]

How big is your shop? This is one of those ideas that seems better on paper. Its a neat idea, but in order for it to make economic sense, you're going to need some pretty good size cylinders and use a torch regularly.

 

[Mooky]

Study up on the requirements for oxygen piping. The "use no oil" warning on the gauge is just the beginning.

As mentioned, the insurance implications and local code requirements could make it a real hassle.

 

[Grinder Bill]

I coordinated a 18 month hydrocarbon lab renovation job at a major oil refinery; the lab remained in service for the duration of the renos. We installed two new test rooms, hydrocarbon sample storage rooms and upgraded the sour vents & drains. We also re-plumbed the sample gas system, including oxygen, acetylene, hydrogen, nitrogen and a few exotic blends.

Bottle storage was outside in a fenced 'porch' with truck access. The sample gas was fed via stainless steel instrumentation tubing; all fitting were Swagelok rated for 10,000 psi. Needless to say, all lines were both pressure tested and snooped for leaks.

The gas system utilized remote actuated SOV's just downstream of the bottle regulators; this allowed the entire system to be shutdown either manually or automatically by the building ESD controls.

 

[theknurl]

DieselSaves;
stick to a cart......roll it to where you need it

only 7 joints that can leak

Murphy's Law is real

 

[zkling]

How big is your shop?
How much oxy do you currently go through?
Will your supplier manifold cylinders for you?

I can't imagine where this would be a benefit for a home user or even a small shop, unless you were running a spray booth or the like that took gobs of oxy.

WFIW, I used to work at a place that had all plumbed gasses. But they were running weld cells, robotics, plasma booths and the like. It was a multi million dollar operation. And the maintenance guys routinely went around with gas sniffers. IIRC I think the lines were all sweated copper.

 

[Farmall450]

School has black iron.

 

[sberry]

No, this is not for a small shop. Put them on a cart or chain against the wall with enough hose to reach.

 

[BlackjackNA]

Hhmmmmm... My shop is kind of small, and I will be limited to an outside wall solution, ie bottles on the front hitch of the trailer. I went whole-hog and taught myself black-pipe plumbing for my compressed air, so I would be able to plumb this, after learning o/a rules.

 

[59 wagon man]

you may wanna check your insurance as they may not cover this if you have a problem. i am a plumber by trade and would just use a cart and hoses

 

[theknurl]

you may wanna check your insurance as they may not cover this if you have a problem. i am a plumber by trade and would just use a cart and hoses

+1000

 

[Lassen Forge]

Hhmmmmm... My shop is kind of small, and I will be limited to an outside wall solution, ie bottles on the front hitch of the trailer. I went whole-hog and taught myself black-pipe plumbing for my compressed air, so I would be able to plumb this, after learning o/a rules.

Rule #1 - if you don't get it right the first time, and your acetylene side leaks into the shop, you have built a bomb. Not fun. Turn the lights on, and...

--boom--

Same issue with Quik-Disconnects - notorious for seepage if you get the wrong ones. If it seeps, and you turn on the grinder...

--boom--

Or you forget to shut down your tanks, or leave a torch hooked up with the gas off but the valves open (yes, it happens) and then turn on your manifold system, walk in, remember you have to bleed up your lines, so you go to make coffee, turn on that old sparky coffee maker, and...

--boom--

It's a real PITA to sort tools out from your collapsed roof and wall timbers.

Not saying don't do it, because if you have a need for it then its worth its weight in gold... but if there was EVER a time you needed someone to oversight your work, or vice versa, this is it. It's like plumbing for propane or natural gas, but with an acetylene bomb if it's wrong!

In high school (we had a manifold system and plumbing) we had a "fire-up" sequence for the shop EVERY morning - off a checklist - and a shutdown procedure for the end of the last class - EVERY evening - we had to go thru in teams of 2 and turn in before work started. Even then, we missed some things some times (hell, we were kids, and the guys always seemed distracted... don't know why... ) but if you have a lot of operations going on at once, yeah, there's real utility for plumbing. Just be Super-**** about safety. One time is all it takes!

 

[bad_idea]

I'm thinking hose reel. How big is the shop?

 

[BlackjackNA]

Acknowledged... my tanks and ALL hook-ups / hoses STAY OUTSIDE.

Many Tanx!

 

[sberry]

The reason for this is schools with several students and stations, there would be bottles/regulators all over the place, a set for every operation and there is someone watching all this. All the stuff is designed like it is for a reason, normal torch sets with bottles regs and hoses are for one user operations like you and me. I could plumb it too,,, but I don't, That is for specialty applications usually hi demand and highly engineered.
Number one is good habits, I turn set on when I use it and off before I walk away.
There are cases for longer hoses. Back before we had plasma we used torches hourly, had one on LP and one on acet with 100 ft hoses. Was moving a lot and didn't want to roll tanks. Today back to a single set with one gas on a cart.
Can go a week without using it. It had occurred to me to use some spares and have second set in shop but it would be in the way and save a couple minutes of work a month, not worth it.

 

[theknurl]

BlackjackNA;
have everything inside......

no little gremlins will mess with anything.....trust me they will

I ran an auto craft shop for the Army in Germany.....

the tanks/regulators were in the tool crib and I had the only key...

I knocked a brick out of the wall and ran the hoses through the wall

I'd turn the tanks on and check your ability to weld when you finished I shut everything off and coiled the hoses

the tool crib had a Dutch door the top was open...... my guard dog was inside....

once I put the tanks in the tool crib no more problems

and as the Black GIs said "MF you do what the Man tells you.....and don't F*** with the dog, he ain't afraid to tear your *** up"

and he was never reprimanded for biting either

 

[DieselSaves]

I'm thinking hose reel. How big is the shop?

The main body of the shop is 40x78. The lean to we do some welding work in and are considering dedicating to metal fab and repair is 12' wide and runs for 40' down the side of the shop. It's accessed internally by a man door that our cart just fits through.

I am also considering a hose reel but have had sketchy luck with other (not cutting gas related) hose reel joints and am a little gun shy of them. I figured forty feet of pipe with a coupler access at each end, a tee, and a further four or five feet of pipe through a wall would give me the access I needed with a minimum of joints.

Some good safety points were brought up that will probably sway me from doing this right now as the other parties that use the shop on a steady basis stand a good chance of not heeding safety proceedures in my absence.

What hose reels are safe enought to consider? Maybe with 30' at a center location and some hooks to keep the hose out of my way while in use, I could make this work. Also, what is less safe, a properly installed piped system or two sets of bottles dedicated to two spaces?

 

[sberry]

Less safe is the pipe. Again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, these are not designed with these types of shops in mind and the general equipment for sale you see IS. If moving was a continuous issue would have 2 sets, you probably need spares anyway. The best is where the bottles are visible to the operator. Nothing beats being able to shut them off if needed or keep in sight to remember to close when finished.
This is why,,,,, you don't see piped systems commonly installed,,, its not a great idea,,, if it was everyone would do it. With a reel you are tied to a fixed location, its not a bad thing but not as useful as one might think. Air yes,,, torches not so much,, not that there are not places for it but don't overthink just yet, work around till you get a real grip on the logistics or the layout. Usually there are tons of things that don't cost money and take investment that tends to sit after its made.

 

[dr_clyde]

If you're worried about the quality of reels, take a look at Coxreels. I have one for compressed air and it is top notch. They make O/A reels designed to go on service trucks, and would probably work great for your application.

 

[theknurl]

DieselSaves;

what are you smoking???? you CAN NOT HAVE ACETYLENE LEAKS

acetylene mixed with air is explosive between 6% and 83%, it is literally

capable of vaporizing your building......

acetylene and air makes gasoline vapors look like a good idea

back in the '70s the guys at E. C. Birt Motorcycles were filling 1/2 pint milk cartons with acetylene and oxygen and lighting them off sounds like a big firecracker.....

then they used a Styrofoam ice chest.....they blew the back wall out of the building while they were in it......that was ~3 cubic feet, you have ~25,000 cuft think it could hurt you?

 

[CAOS]

I wouldn't.




Ive spent the last ten years in a dedicated metal fabrication facility, likely have a torch in my hand a couple hours a day. Never in my wildest dreams would I want acetylene piped through out the shop. That **** should not be fucked with. Period.


I personally shut the bottles off after each use, back the regulators out at the end of the shift.


We have air, argon and propane piped every 20' down a 65' x 180' shop. Propane is used for tiger torches. Never have I come into a situation where I couldn't get the gas axe where I needed it to be. Your floor should not be that cluttered to not be able to roll the torch around on its cart.

Acetylene, demands respect.

 

[theknurl]

I wouldn't.

Ive spent the last ten years in a dedicated metal fabrication facility, likely have a torch in my hand a couple hours a day. Never in my wildest dreams would I want acetylene piped through out the shop. That **** should not be fucked with. Period.


I personally shut the bottles off after each use, back the regulators out at the end of the shift.


We have air, argon and propane piped every 20' down a 65' x 180' shop. Propane is used for tiger torches. Never have I come into a situation where I couldn't get the gas axe where I needed it to be. Your floor should not be that cluttered to not be able to roll the torch around on its cart.

Acetylene, demands respect.

this is what happens when there is a fire around acetylene tanks......remember acetylene tanks have a fusible plug in the bottom to release the acetylene.......

these explosions are WITHOUT OXYGEN

DieselSaves;

look up the flame front speed for oxy/acet in a confined space.....makes C-4 seem slow

 

[sberry]

The welding store would sell pipe and everyone would have it if it was a good idea and same for a hose reel with these gasses, most don't have it.
The safety is only as good as the operator no matter what you got, its not that risky but this is just over thought uneeded stuff and pretty much a brain fart.
Its not stupid and worth a question,,,, but as a practical matter totally not worth the effort,,,, invest in an air hose reel you will get 10x use out of.

There is nothing wrong with a hook or 2 on the wall,,, as I said, have used carts and also chained bottles to a central spot and added enough hose.

 

[Bigplum]

Acetylene leaks are fun
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1552694/Man-killed-in-van-blast-in-historic-town.html

 

[Bigplum]

More fun
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Plumber+explodes+Vancouver+West+with+video/8419029/story.html