Plumbing Question... waterhammer?

[jake00]

I've got an aprilaire humidifier attached to the hvac system.

It worked fine until last year when we determined that the saddle valve on the water line needed to be replaced.

I replaced it and hooked everything up. I don't think we used it much after that.


This season, I fire everything up and After about an hr or so of running, I hear a loud whine / humming coming from the pipes.

this goes away if I turn off the humidifier, or open a faucet/ flush a toilet.

I think air is getting into the system??


Thoughts? tighten everything? replace the saddle with a real valve?

 

[jgoglick]

I am by no means a plumber, but I had a similar problem at my last house. There were no additions, just one day got that hammer sound when running water. The problem was a bad, or failing, pressure regulator. I had a plumber replace it and everything was good.

John

 

[csargents1546]

First off, definatley replace the saddle valve with a quater turn ball valve. Sounds like you have an air pocket in the system. Try to open all of your faucets and valves. Let it run for a couple of minutes, I know wasting water. That should purge any air you have in the system. Not only is that sound annoying, but water hammer can cause damage to joints in the system and cause possible leaks.

 

[bgarrett]

Restrictions make noise.
Dont run 1" to a 1/2" fitting then go back to 1", for example.

Water hammer is solved by adding a short pipe, capped off, at a high point in the system.
Usually the water heater is a good place.
The idea is to trap air to serve as a cushion, since air compresses.

 

[Submarine_Sailor]

First of all, if it's a pressurized water system, tightening stuff won't do good as the water would come out. I think csargents is absolutely right. Replace the valve with a 1/4 turn ball valve and vent your system (run the water). I am not a plumber, but do similar work in the Navy. Water hammer will break your pipes, valves, and fittings, sometime catastrophically. Generally it's cause by a surging pressure or source or air in the lines. Might be smart to check your pressure regulating valve like jgoglick said. Something like that doesn't just all of a sudden start unless you had a component fail. Just my opinion...

 

[banzaitoyota]

Using a saddle valve with a humidifier is a mistake, Intstall a reducing tee with a real valve for isolation

 

[rasit]

First of all, if it's a pressurized water system, tightening stuff won't do good as the water would come out. QUOTE]

Huh?? If it's not a pressurized water system, loosening stuff would do really good as the water would stay in. C'mon, who didn't know that?

 

[bochnak]

This season, I fire everything up and After about an hr or so of running, I hear a loud whine / humming coming from the pipes.

this goes away if I turn off the humidifier, or open a faucet/ flush a toilet.


Thoughts? tighten everything? replace the saddle with a real valve?

Water hammer occurs when water is suddenly shut off.

I think you have a restriction. I hear something similar when a faucet is opened to a trickle.

I don't like the saddle valves that pierce the pipe. I prefer to use a sweat or compression shut off valve, 1/4 turn.

 

[cashishift]

Saddle valves are a recipe for failure, as are needle valves.

 

[ddawg16]

Water hammer occurs when water is suddenly shut off.

I think you have a restriction. I hear something similar when a faucet is opened to a trickle.

I don't like the saddle valves that pierce the pipe. I prefer to use a sweat or compression shut off valve, 1/4 turn.

Bochnak is correct....water hammer is not a whining sound.....it's a 'thud'....caused by water flowing through a pipe and then stopping quickly....It's usually real obvious when you have a valve (say bath tub) does not close smoothly....as you shut of the water, the flow starts to pulse causing a hammer effect.

bgarret is has a cheap good solution to reduce or eliminate water hammer.

I will never use saddle valves....I find that after a few years they become almost impossible to turn on and off.

On a side note....when your doing copper pipes....deburr the inside of the pipe.....last summer I rebuilt the incoming line to my house (re-did the front sprinklers and added a 1" ball valve to replace the POS gate valve).

Prior to this change, you could tell any time any water was running....not loud..but you could hear the flow. I'm not sure if it was the ball valve and/or deburing the pipes on the inside....but now I don't hear a thing. Since the gate valve was full open, and the old pipes had not been deburred....I'm inclined to think that the noise was caused by water flowing across those turned up edges.

 

[59 wagon man]

just had a customer that when you flushed one particular toilet in about 45 secs the other side of the house would sound like an orchestra was beginning to play - all kinds of squels and bangs took apart the water inlet(ballcock) valve cleaned it out and the noise is gone. restrictions can cause all kinds of noises depending on how the pipe is moving,anchored,size,what it is rubbing against,etc. Make sure the valve is completely opened but it would be a great idea to get rid of the saddle valve and install a reg tee and valve.

 

[kbs2244]

All good advice.
But before you get too carried away, disconnect the feed tube to the humidifier at the humidifier end, put it into a bucket, and open the valve all the way to flush it.

Also check the solenoid at the humidifier.
If it got any grit in it you will get some noise.

If your set up was working fine before it should work fine now.

BTW, I like to use plastic or rubber hose for this type of hook up.
Since there is no potable water involved auto fuel line will work fine.
Or the hose from an old sink sprayer head.
This will help absorb any vibrations from and to the sheet metal.
If you have soft copper tube now, the easy way to retro fit is to cut the tube about an inch before the compression fitting and then slip the rubber tube over the copper with a hose clamp.

 

[Josh Bremer]

Haha. All you guys are such know it all's. I love it. Plastic line, fuel line, rubber hose. How can you tell someone use an unapproved material on a plumbing system?

 

[tcianci]

As others have stated you do not have a classic water hammer problem. It seems that you may have isolated the culprit when you said that turning off the humidifier stopped the noise, which by the way is the result of a vibration set up by some component in the plumbing system oscillating at a frequency that causes an audible sound, often made louder by the plumbing in contact with framing, etc. Since turning off the humidifier, although you didn't state whether you turned off the valve or the unit itself, seemed to solve the problem, I can offer a couple of suggestions: If you turned off the recently replaced valve and the sound went away, the problem is either with the valve that you recently replaced or the valve that is internal to the humidifier. Like I said before, the sound is some component oscillating, in this case it may be the stem of the valve, which you can tighten up by first making sure that the valve is completely open and the stem of the valve is against its backstop and then snugging up the packing gland nut on the valve. Second, determine if the humidifier itself has a float type valve similar to the fill valve on a toilet. These valves can often oscillate just as they are reaching a point of being nearly off. Remember that although you may be able to find the culprit or source of the oscillation, the actual piece of plumbing that is making the noise can be nearly anywhere in the system.
In any event, I wouldn't go throwing any water hammer mitigation solutions at the problem. A little detective work on your part will yield the correct solution.

 

[srmofo]

Haha. All you guys are such know it all's. I love it. Plastic line, fuel line, rubber hose. How can you tell someone use an unapproved material on a plumbing system?

You are not drinking the water from the humidifier, use whatever you want. However, fuel line and a worm clamp sound almost as bad an idea as a saddlevalve. I would use pex and the right fittings.