Plumbing question....

[Blownbyyou]

So I was wondering if anyone here had some insight into what could possibly be wrong because I am completely stumped. I just re did my upstairs bathroom and the pressure out of my brand new Delta Carlisle is so weak that when I turn on both the hand held only it barely has enough pressure to rinse the soap out of my wifes hair.

To give some background here are some quick bullet points.

-3/4 inch copper pipe (1 year old) ran from hot water heater to shower valve
-1/2 inch copper from valve to but the tub spout and shower head
-Rough in valve installed in correct orientation (up is up)
-Flow is as weak coming out of the tub spout as it is the shower head
-Water pressure previously was awesome
-No restrictions in the aerator or the cartridge (both were dissassembled last night
-Turning the hot water all the way on has the flow of a 97 year old male
-Water pressure in the house is around 40-50 psi from my memory(on well water)
-No other weak flowing faucets in the house.


Any other things to check? I didn't see any other flow restrictors

I am just lost here, or is this just the valve reducing flow to new federally mandated 2.5 gpm?

Thanks in advance

 

[Milton Shaw]

Check the hose end where it goes into the handheld, there is a screen and restrictor there.. It might be clogged but I don't know if the restrictor can be removed

 

[Blownbyyou]

Check the hose end where it goes into the handheld, there is a screen and restrictor there.. It might be clogged but I don't know if the restrictor can be removed

I already removed the aerator.....

The flow is just as week coming out of the tub spout as well...

I am 99 percent sure its the valve because when I take the cartridge our the pressure is pretty strong...

 

[Zeke]

You need to call Delta CS. They will tell you if there is a mandated restricter in the valve ***'y. 2 questions: was the valve soldered in assembled? Was there any chance there was any substance used to stop water from flowing as the soldering was done?

 

[Kaizen]

I noticed a significant decrease in pressure when I used 3/4 inch for supply. not your only problem but might be adding to it.

 

[Blownbyyou]

You need to call Delta CS. They will tell you if there is a mandated restricter in the valve ***'y. 2 questions: was the valve soldered in assembled? Was there any chance there was any substance used to stop water from flowing as the soldering was done?

Ill try and call them today, but I fear that because in my life customer service normally doesn't provide good technical answers.

In regards to your questions.
-was the valve soldered in assembled?

I did solder the valve in place, but I know the flow is okay as I have taken out the cartridge and turned on the water and the pressure was enough to shoot the back of the shower wall (if that makes sense).

I noticed a significant decrease in pressure when I used 3/4 inch for supply. not your only problem but might be adding to it.

hmmmm, so maybe your on to something, would it be worth replacing say the last 5 feet of supply line with 1/2 inch?

 

[Cyberbear]

I've run into similar problems with things that are manufactured with flow restrictors in place. If there is room to enlarge, I drill out the usual 1/4" hole to 5/16" or 3/8" and it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[bzinsky]

Have you checked the shutoff valves?

Normally the diverters have built in shut-off valves. There's one for hot and cold, on the front of the unit so you can access them with the cover plate off.

Usually you turn them with a flat head screw driver

hmmmm, so maybe your on to something, would it be worth replacing say the last 5 feet of supply line with 1/2 inch?

no, 3/4 would provide more pressure than 1/2

it's an extremely nominal amount, but there's no way reducing the line size would increase pressure or flow

 

[nehog]

I replaced some plumbing a while back. First bathroom worked great, but the second really sucked--water shot out for a second then it dropped to a very low amount. Odd, since both baths were back to back, and identical.

I took the bad valve out to the shop and hit it with compressed air, backwards (air into the outlet). Out from the inlet poped an errant O-ring, that apparently dropped in there at the factory! Reassembled the system and it's worked perfectly.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I noticed a significant decrease in pressure when I used 3/4 inch for supply. not your only problem but might be adding to it.

Something else caused the reduction in water pressure, not the pipe diameter change.

 

[flat350]

"I noticed a significant decrease in pressure when I used 3/4 inch for supply. not your only problem but might be adding to it."

hmmmm, so maybe your on to something, would it be worth replacing say the last 5 feet of supply line with 1/2 inch?

INCREASING the pipe size would increase the pressure.

Bernoulli's principal states basically that an increase in diameter will increase pressure,and a decrease in diameter will decrease pressure and increase velocity,too much velocity is bad.

If you flushed the lines and think that you had adequate flow it has to be an obstruction in the valve body or the cartridge.

 

[Kaizen]

"I noticed a significant decrease in pressure when I used 3/4 inch for supply. not your only problem but might be adding to it."

hmmmm, so maybe your on to something, would it be worth replacing say the last 5 feet of supply line with 1/2 inch?

INCREASING the pipe size would increase the pressure.

Bernoulli's principal states basically that an increase in diameter will increase pressure,and a decrease in diameter will decrease pressure and increase velocity,too much velocity is bad.

If you flushed the lines and think that you had adequate flow it has to be an obstruction in the valve body or the cartridge.

and this is why I replaced the 1/2 inch with the 3/4. the 2nd floor bathroom was having low pressure so I figured putting 3/4 would help. and i'm telling you it only reduced the pressure.....or rather I should say how hard the water was coming out as I'm sure if I put a pressure gauge on it I would see the same. call it what you want the water was and is coming out with less force....and I didn't change any of the faucets or valves just changed out 20 feet of pipe.
op I don't think changing 5 feet will make a difference.

 

[ddawg16]

You could have a 10" pipe supplying your house....or 1/2". 50 PSI is 50 PSI regardless of the pipe size....until you get flow...but it it's going into a 1/2" faucet....then what ever the 1/2" faucet will flow, that is what you get.

With all things being equal, going to a larger supply line will NOT reduce flow at the faucet.

Any time I have had 'flow' issues, it was right after I had done some work on the plumbing....and it ended up being junk in the line.

So, based on the OP's statement he did a bunch of new work.....look for garbage in the valve.....like the time I found a chunk of solder in my delta valve after I had been sweating pipes.

 

[PelicanPines]

Solder snot could be clogging the supply.

 

[SJR033]

INCREASING the pipe size would increase the pressure.

.

This is wrong. Increasing the size of pipe will increase VOLUME but decrease pressure. Decreasing the pipe size will increase pressure but decrease volume. Think of your garden hose. When you put your thumb over the end. You are decreasing the outlet size and increase the pressure.

 

[Rrumbler]

I think you may have come up against the "big brother" problem (see below, taken from the DeltaFaucet website). Our new Moen shower has the same problem, and it is from a government mandated flow restrictor in the cartridge assembly.

Why does my new faucet have reduced flow? My old faucet had plenty of volume.

Please keep in mind that all new faucets since 1994 are restricted to conserve water per EPA code mandates. Older faucets had no restrictions. Beyond intentional flow restriction, new installations can sometimes have reduced flow if the lines are not flushed prior to installation of aerators or shower heads. The flow restrictors required for aerators and shower heads can clog, resulting in greatly reduced flow rates. Remove the aerator or shower head and make sure the flow restrictor is not clogged.


Read more: http://www.deltafaucet.com/customersupport/faq/water+pressure/index.html#ixzz44LYvHiZX

 

[Pwrgeek]

I think you may have come up against the "big brother" problem (see below, taken from the DeltaFaucet website). Our new Moen shower has the same problem, and it is from a government mandated flow restrictor in the cartridge assembly.



Why does my new faucet have reduced flow? My old faucet had plenty of volume.



Please keep in mind that all new faucets since 1994 are restricted to conserve water per EPA code mandates. Older faucets had no restrictions. Beyond intentional flow restriction, new installations can sometimes have reduced flow if the lines are not flushed prior to installation of aerators or shower heads. The flow restrictors required for aerators and shower heads can clog, resulting in greatly reduced flow rates. Remove the aerator or shower head and make sure the flow restrictor is not clogged.





Read more: http://www.deltafaucet.com/customersupport/faq/water+pressure/index.html#ixzz44LYvHiZX

This is when the good old power drill comes in handy. Most of the "2.5 gpm" restrictors are about 1/4 in. Drill them to 3/8 and you'll get about twice the flow (or the 5gpm we all grew up with).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flat350]

This is wrong. Increasing the size of pipe will increase VOLUME but decrease pressure. Decreasing the pipe size will increase pressure but decrease volume. Think of your garden hose. When you put your thumb over the end. You are decreasing the outlet size and increase the pressure.

To help you understand your garden hose example,when you put your thumb over the end you are not applying some magical force that increases the pressure,the pressure is determined by whatever is supplying the fluid to the system,all that you are doing is forcing a given mount of water at a constant pressure to pass through a smaller opening.To accomplish this the same amount of water must flow faster(an increase in velocity)through the opening which reduces the pressure.Do a little reading on the subject and educate yourself,instead of making incorrect statements.It called Bernoulli's Principle,your welcome.
There are many Laymen and Licensed Plumbers that don't have a grasp on this principle and how it applies to plumbing systems,lot's of misunderstanding and confusion on flow and pressure

 

[bzinsky]

This is wrong. Increasing the size of pipe will increase VOLUME but decrease pressure. Decreasing the pipe size will increase pressure but decrease volume. Think of your garden hose. When you put your thumb over the end. You are decreasing the outlet size and increase the pressure.

ok now put a sprayer on the end of the hose, with your thumb somehow magically still in there

that's how plumbing systems work

 

[bzinsky]

Any time I have had 'flow' issues, it was right after I had done some work on the plumbing....and it ended up being junk in the line.

So, based on the OP's statement he did a bunch of new work.....look for garbage in the valve.....like the time I found a chunk of solder in my delta valve after I had been sweating pipes.

x2

very common issue

 

[flat350]

Well, I think you need to do some more reading before you make incorrect statements. I don't care how you "think" some principle applies. If you seem to know this principle so well, then you do the math and show use. But keep in mind some of us are not so bright, so maybe we can use small words.

Just explain this to me...when you take a garden hose and simply hold it, the water sprays let say 5'. But when you put your thumb over half the end. Now the water sprays 10'. What is happening here? You DECREASED the size of the pipe and INCREASED the pressure. It has to be increased because the water traveled further. If you were correct the water would not travel as far. Come on, think about for just a second.

I thought about it and have decided to not have an argument with an unarmed man/child.

Have a nice day

 

[bzinsky]

To help you understand your garden hose example,when you put your thumb over the end you are not applying some magical force that increases the pressure,the pressure is determined by whatever is supplying the fluid to the system,all that you are doing is forcing a given mount of water at a constant pressure to pass through a smaller opening.To accomplish this the same amount of water must flow faster(an increase in velocity)through the opening which reduces the pressure.Do a little reading on the subject and educate yourself,instead of making incorrect statements.It called Bernoulli's Principle,your welcome.
There are many Laymen and Licensed Plumbers that don't have a grasp on this principle and how it applies to plumbing systems,lot's of misunderstanding and confusion on flow and pressure

while he is absolutely wrong for this application and it offers no benefit whatsoever, technically it would increase pressure in the hose itself vs being totally uncorked

 

[SJR033]

bzinsky thank you for continuing the discussion. So if it not an increase in pressure that causes the increased travel distance what is it? Velocity? And if it is velocity, was the OP incorrect in saying that the water pressure out of his faucet was low and should have said the water velocity was low?

 

[pcmeiners]

Junk in the line.....
Depending what minerals are in the water, you may have globules created in your hot water heater, small to large pebble like object, I have issues with them twice a year. They can clog the pipes at a turn or restricted part or they get into faucet guts.