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Plumbing questions

DEEDDUDE

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
161
Location
Beach City, Texas
I’m real close to purchasing my building. I tried to send them a deposit yesterday, but it's not as easy as going down to Lowes or Home Depot.

Anyway, I search for this info and came up short. I'm wanting to plumb my new shop with a shower, toilet and sink. Where can I find pictures or diagrams to help me plumb this thing right? Or a book or website with info. One question I have is, how deep does the main drain need to be? Really what I'm asking is do I have to go under the footers or can I go through them? The footers are going to be 24" deep and I'm afraid that low will keep the sewage from draining correctly, not enough slope to the septic system.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Steevo

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Aug 18, 2009
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8,738
Location
43.49600, -112.04300
You can go through the footers with the sewer.

Good planning will allow you to identify the location ahead of framing for the footer pour, and you can insert a short section of 6" dia plastic pipe through the form to leave you the necessary pathway without the hassle of jack-hammering a hole through it later and dealing with possibly hitting rebar, etc.

Plan your electrical sweeps, water line location, sewer pipe location, spare conduits for future, etc. locations, so you can prep for them as well.
 

Outlawmws

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Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
39,326
Location
The Badlands
I’m real close to purchasing my building. I tried to send them a deposit yesterday, but it's not as easy as going down to Lowes or Home Depot.

Anyway, I search for this info and came up short. I'm wanting to plumb my new shop with a shower, toilet and sink. Where can I find pictures or diagrams to help me plumb this thing right? Or a book or website with info. One question I have is, how deep does the main drain need to be? Really what I'm asking is do I have to go under the footers or can I go through them? The footers are going to be 24" deep and I'm afraid that low will keep the sewage from draining correctly, not enough slope to the septic system.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

This is your key issue, and how deep is determined by the local building codes. talk to a city/county inspector to get some general guidance, it is likely they have hand out pamphlets on basic plumbing considerations. you mentioned septic, are you on a septic tank, or on city sewers?

You can go through the footers with the sewer.

Good planning will allow you to identify the location ahead of framing for the footer pour, and you can insert a short section of 6" dia plastic pipe through the form to leave you the necessary pathway without the hassle of jack-hammering a hole through it later and dealing with possibly hitting rebar, etc.

Plan your electrical sweeps, water line location, sewer pipe location, spare conduits for future, etc. locations, so you can prep for them as well.

If you are pouring a new footing you need to go through, this is the best way to do it. I wanted a drain pipe from under my house addition, as we get a lot of water under the houses around my neighborhood in the rainy season, and did just this in the new foundation, this made it so everything drains directly with no standing water and no sump pump required. (I also trenched in perf drain pips along one foundation wall and plumbed all the downspouts to the drain pipes, and get no standing water at all and no need for a sump pump anymore...
 

wbrian63

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Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
843
Location
Houston, TX
I'm not a plumber, but here's what I'd do. I've done this before and have had good success so far with these standards.

Shower will need a 2" drain with an integrated solvent-weld p-trap. Can probably get away with a 1-1/2" vent line for the shower.

Toilet will need a 4" drain line - the water in the toilet is the gas seal, so no P-trap. Use a "long sweep" ell under the toilet to speed the detrius on it's way. 3" vent is OK for the toilet, and you can tee the vent line for the shower into the toilet line to avoid having multiple roof penetrations.

Sink works best with a 2" drain line. P-traps for sinks are under the sink. If proximity is good to the toilet vent, tee the vent line in there too.

Use 4" drain line from the shop to the septic. Tie the sink and shower into the main line with proper reducing DWV T's or WYE's. I like to have the drains enter the pipe on the side, not dump in from the top. Less splash and turbulence that way.

Add a cleanout at the edge of the slab which is a DWV tee in the drain line pointing vertical with a threaded collar and cap at ground level.

Would also be good to add a cleanout under the sink to allow for service without disconnecting the sink p-trap.

I'd plumb it with the sink being the furthest "up-stream". Then the shower, followed by the toilet.

Step 1 - Drain slope to the septic should be 1/8" to 1/4" drop per foot of travel (if I recall). Figure out where you're going to tie into the septic line and how deep the line is at the tie-in point. Measure to the top of the pipe from ground level.

Then measure back to the exit point of the main drain line from the shop. Deduct 1/4" per foot of run from your depth measurement to get the required depth under ground to the top of your main drain line.

Need to allow for ground slope as well, but as you're in Beach City, I doubt there's much. If the ground level where the shop will be built is higher than the ground level at the septic tie-in, you can deduct that elevation difference from your Step 1 value.

The toilet will require the most drop (the minimum distance from the bottom of toilet at floor level to the top of the pipe it connects to) so we'll use that as our base line.

Step 2 - take the # from Step 1 and add the offset required for a 4" long-sweep elbow. The way I visualize this dimension is with the elbow on a table with one of the hubs flat to the table top. Measure up from the table surface to the bottom of the other flange, which is vertical. That's the # you need to add to your pipe elevation number. I don't know what the number is off-hand and Google isn't my friend this morning. Then add another 3" or so for the toilet flange to get your final required height. If that number is less than the planned finish level of the floor in your shop, you're good to go.

If not, you'll either need to elevate the slab, build a platform on the floor of the shop and build the bathroom there, or add a transfer pump that will accept the bathroom drains, macerate the contents and send them on to the septic.

You can also use a backflush toilet and have the drain exit the wall of the shop and drop into the ground from there, but backflush toilets are expensive.

I don't think there's any particular problem with going through the beams.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your new shop - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Regards
 

Falcon67

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Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
>Shower will need a 2" drain with an integrated solvent-weld p-trap. Can probably get >away with a 1-1/2" vent line for the shower.

IIRC, 2" vent is min code for a pot, sink, shower.
 
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DEEDDUDE

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
161
Location
Beach City, Texas
Thanks for the replys. wbrian I hope you type faster than me, that would have taken me hours. Thank You.

My tie-in to the septic is about 36" or more from grade. I tied a drain for my out door kitchen into the septic a couple years ago so that shouldn't be to big of a deal, but it is about 80' from the tie-in to the shop. It shouldn't be a problem getting the slope I need when going through the footers.

Where I'm at we need no permits, no inspectors, but I do want to do a professional job that could meet code if needed.

Thanks for the advise.
 

ddawg16

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Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
At least you have the right attitude...if you meet code...you have a much better chance of not having problems.

Vent...make sure you vent it correctly.

There are books out there showing you how to do it....but wbrian pretty much covered the basics....though I think you would be fine with 3" vs 4". My house is all 3"....and it has 3 toilets/bathrooms on it....0 issues....except for the damed roots I pulled out near the street.....damned clay pipe...

Special attention to the clean outs....those can be life savers...

AND....make sure you cement ALL of your joints. My inlaws had to jackhammer up a 4x4 section of their kitch floor because the original contractor didn't cement one of the joints under the floor and it came loose....major blockage....
 
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DEEDDUDE

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Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
161
Location
Beach City, Texas
Thanks ddawg. I've done some plumbing in the past and I always clean and prime and glue. I still have some 4" I'll use as the main and 2" everywhere else except the vent, thinking of tieing them all together and have one roof pen. 3" ok? Clean out, yep I thought of those last night, never know when you'll need it.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll do a build thread when things get going.
 

Frank The Plumber

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Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
2,644
Location
Chicago.
To sleeve a foundation you use a section of steel or cast iron pipe. Run the line through the sleeve and pack the area surrounding the pipe with foam liner. Or use a mechanical sleeve seal.

There is a minimum comfortable depth that a rough should enter an area being plumbed. In my area because of how we vent the under grounds I like to have 12" to the pipe center line. This way you are deep enough to pitch correctly within the area, cross lines with vent pipes, use properly radiused bends among other things. If you put one in too shallow you would know exactly what I mean. You can really F yourself up.

You need to calculate a route and the height differences between the weir of the septic field and the outlet of the system at your building. Keep in mind that a line that flushes papers and solids through it can it fact have too much pitch which strands the solids in the effluent. A good consciencious pitch of 1/8" to 1/4" properly supported usually works well, check your local code.

Your code requirements all exist for reasons pertaining to your area. Type of soil, ground motion, water run off situations, population density all cause differing effects. The only certain way to know your local code is to get a copy of it. Every code is different, if you use advice from a forum that covers such vast areas you will almost certainly get some bad advice for your particular situation. Before you get too involved call a few contractors for estimates, you may find that the price is not so expensive per the comfort of knowing that this aspect of the project will be done right. Pull permits and card your plumbing contractor. He should have his credentials, if not let him mow your lawn but not much else.
 

Steevo

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Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
8,738
Location
43.49600, -112.04300
Here is a pic of where the pass-through was for my water/sewer lines:

654075838_gTyEX-M-1.jpg

654075937_8cQj5-M-1.jpg


And the finished rough plumbing prior to pouring slab.

654075777_x7N24-M-1.jpg
 
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