Plumbing without permit

[AbnerFurmond]

I have a 20x40 garage. I'm making a portion of it into a pool room. I will also have a tap in there. Therefore, I need a toilet rather than walk 75ft to my house every time I need to take a leak.
I want to add a septic pump to take the effluent to my septic tank, but for some reason my county will not allow and is being very vague about it.
They say a drain for water is OK. A drain for effluent, not OK. Does this make any sense first of all, and second, would I actually get in trouble (other than the small fines) if I just went ahead and did it?
I got a permit for the concrete. I got the permit for the structure. I'm obviously not above getting a permit, but I just see no idea why I wouldn't be allowed to do this.
Am I wrong here?

 

[Falcon67]

They have the legal teeth to fine the **** out of you on a daily basis (every day of non conforming until brought to code or abated) and bring action to make you remove anything done illegally. Most places I've been will come down like a ton of bricks on these things because if they don't it runs away from them. And most codes read that they have the authority to come on your premises to inspect. You can certainly do whatever you want as far as that goes.

 

[wnstwolf]

Not saying I did or did not get a permit but at time of sale of our home where basement was "updated" and included full bathroom that was not on previous documents I was suject to a lot of grief. Mainly due to looking for something for nothing the new owners and their inspectors insisted we showed things were up to code. We had an independent review completed and signed off. probably did a better job than permit and code review but just the same sometime things do not present themselves until later in life

 

[ghnl]

What about an incerating toilet?

 

[AbnerFurmond]

What about an incerating toilet?

Well it seems from what the previous posts said, this may be my only choice.
I figured I would ask since I didn't want to pay for an incinerating toilet because I already have an unused toilet, plumbing lines, and I even have a septic pump that isn't being used. Oh well. I thought for sure I would be able to sneak by on this one.
I still don't understand why I can pump water to the septic tank and not effluent. My water well is on the opposite side of my house so I knew that wasn't a concern.

 

[Zeke]

I wonder how they would feel about a "holding" tank. Could you pump your waste over to the original septic? Or is the house on a sewer? Same question applies, pump.

 

[Steevo]

This:

 

[buddyboy]

and is being very vague about it.

ask them nicely to explain how and what you have to do to put a toilet in this building.

there has to be a way to do it or an appeals process to let you state your case. not just "cuz we says so"

 

[Stuart in MN]

This is another case where we don't know where "here" is...you could be in Timbuktu for all we know, so it's impossible to give any advice.

 

[Jim B]

We've shopped for a house for the past year and a lot of the ones we've looked at had septic systems. Some normal systems, some engineered, some pressure dose. In some instances we were interested in expanding the size of a particular house with a septic system. What we found out is that if the permitted septic system was designed for a specific size house we could not get a permit for the addition if the addition pushed the size of the house over that which was originally allowed for the particular septic system. I think it has to do with the number of possible people using the septic system. Sooo...perhaps they don't think your septic system could handle the extra load (pun intended).

 

[trbomax]

Maybe a proper holding tank with a pump in that? Or a chem toilet and dump it as reqd,but that could be a pia quick.

 

[benchracer]

How about something like this? http://www.airdelights.com/wes4000_waterfree_urinal.html

 

[240sxguy]

Install two sinks and be sure to clearly label them.

 

[hh76]

How about something like this? http://www.airdelights.com/wes4000_waterfree_urinal.html

That would still need a drain pipe.

I would ask a lot more questions before giving up on it. Maybe there is a simple solution that is just being overlooked. Talk to a plumber in the area to see if they had ideas.

 

[tjpavlov]

It was always my understanding that "effluent" was the term that one uses for the mix of stuff after it has been sitting in the septic tank. Inside the septic tank, it is broken down by the bacteria, becoming effluent. At that point, it moves into the septic drain field.

The inspector might not want you pumping raw sewage around the property. Perhaps he wants you to have another tank before tapping into the leaching field.

 

[RECox286]

It is a damned shame when you can't even pee off your own back porch with out

somebody raising a stink about it. The joys of civilization...

Uncle Bob

 

[Andamo]

Maybe contact the county about using the second septic just as a holding tank and every so often have it pumped out. Seal all the outlet pipes as a show of good faith so when the inspector comes he'll see there's no way for the tank to outflow.

 

[denis4x4]

Even though they're pricey, I'm a real fan of composting toilets. And you can take it with you when you move!

A lot of people think that it's OK to bring a code violation into compliance when they sell a house and everything will be swell. If you did the deed in 2005, you might well have to correct the violation to meet 2012 codes and that could really cost you.

 

[djkeev]

Maybe you ar using the wrong terms. You want to pmp raw sewer to the septic tank.

This is the type of system, sold daily by the 1000's throughout the Country!

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/sewage.html

Dave

 

[UncleJoe]

Just for kicks, call a plumber and ask for a bid to put in the toilet. He will know the code and know what the county will allow. You might be surprised. Also if he comes back with an outrageous bill then you will have an idea of what your up against.

Don't know where you live but in some small towns they give diy'ers a hard time to keep the tradesmen employed.

 

[sberry]

Wait till the smoke clears, do what you want.

 

[tribbles]

This:

Hah. My old man's was an upside-down gallon jug with the bottom cut out, stuck on a length of PVC pipe jabbed between the slab and the siding.

 

[Binrat]

urinal only? Ladies can use the house facilities, since they have the bladders of elephants. Then its only "water" running out?

 

[snyder]

Whenever you mention sewage and garage at the same time, most officials go nuts.
Too many people putting pollutants down the drain.

 

[rasit]

Maybe you ar using the wrong terms. You want to pump raw sewer to the septic tank.

This is the type of system, sold daily by the 1000's throughout the Country!

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/sewage.html

+1 on this. The sewer has two ways to get to the septic tank, either gravity (if there is enough difference in elevation for flow) or pump. When I built my semi-attached garage with breezeway, the inspector told me if I chose to go the gravity route I would have to apply for a separate plumbing permit through the Board of Health because it would end up more than 5' outside of the building and would involve tying into the septic tank underground. With his encouragement, I decided to go with a pump system similar to the one above and piped into the existing plumbing inside the house. Although gravity would have been maintenence free it would have cost me a lot more $$$$ between permits, additional inspectors, excavation equipment, restoration and time.

 

[AbnerFurmond]

Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't exactly clear about my septic pump. I have a little giant sewage ejector with basin. I just happen to have one that we thought we would need building the house but actually didn't.
I went and talked to DHEC today and they said their reasoning is that my house is already using the max amount of possible people on our septic so there wouldn't be room for one more toilet in the garage.
I explained that it will be the same amount of people using it, just in the garage at times instead of the house. No dice. They explained that they have to go by possible numbers of people using the tank and not how many I say will be using it. Which I understand. I am not mad at them, just disappointed on how much money I am going to have to spend in order to get a toilet to my garage now.
I think I may just have to deal with not having one for a while.
It looks like my options are the composting toilet which my cut into my tap system budget right now or a holding tank, which means I would have to get rid of a large portion of my grape vinyard which I also really don't want to do.
And then of course there is also my favorite idea out of the bunch, the funnel urinal haha.
I am in rural South Carolina by the way.

 

[djkeev]

Not familiar with your codes but........
When I was in construction in rural Pennsylvania, septic was sized on number of BEDROOMS in the home, NOT on how many people you can cram into the home for a party! Home SQ Ft does come into play after a certain size, do you have a large Home and few bedrooms?

If you've got a One bedroom home, septic is sized for that potential use, you've got a 12 bedroom home, sized for that. In theory, you can have a 20,000 SF home but only one bedroom, hence sized for that usage. ( you'd be silly to do so ).

It doesn't settle that you want to build a Rec room and they want increased septic size for it. Get ahold of your local / County septic codes, try to avoid your local official knowing that you are going behind his back to learn the facts about septic sizing, by him finding out......once you Piss off an official Government Power crazed worker, you quite simply just screwed yourself!

Dave

 

[AbnerFurmond]

Not familiar with your codes but........
When I was in construction in rural Pennsylvania, septic was sized on number of BEDROOMS in the home, NOT on how many people you can cram into the home for a party! Home SQ Ft does come into play after a certain size, do you have a large Home and few bedrooms?

If you've got a One bedroom home, septic is sized for that potential use, you've got a 12 bedroom home, sized for that. In theory, you can have a 20,000 SF home but only one bedroom, hence sized for that usage. ( you'd be silly to do so ).

It doesn't settle that you want to build a Rec room and they want increased septic size for it. Get ahold of your local / County septic codes, try to avoid your local official knowing that you are going behind his back to learn the facts about septic sizing, by him finding out......once you Piss off an official Government Power crazed worker, you quite simply just screwed yourself!

Dave

By number of people I meant number of bedrooms. I keep misspeaking.
I have a 4 bed 3 bath house 2800 square feet, and the septic to go along with it.
It seems like all the county officials (permitting and dhec) really enjoy giving me the run around. I just feel like I am hitting a brick wall in every direction for something as simple as a toilet in a rec room.

 

[darkk]

I need a toilet rather than walk 75ft to my house every time I need to take a leak.
I want to add a septic pump to take the effluent to my septic tank, but for some reason my county will not allow and is being very vague about it.
Am I wrong here?

Hmmmm.......your first problem was you asked. Sometimes what they don't know won't hurt them....or you.

 

[hh76]

By number of people I meant number of bedrooms. I keep misspeaking.
I have a 4 bed 3 bath house 2800 square feet, and the septic to go along with it.
It seems like all the county officials (permitting and dhec) really enjoy giving me the run around. I just feel like I am hitting a brick wall in every direction for something as simple as a toilet in a rec room.

Again, I would talk to a local plumber and see if they've ever had to deal with something like this. The officials may be nice people who know the rules, but they aren't always looking for solutions, just showing you the problems.

 

[jpinca]

I'm in kind of the same boat here. Prior owner illegally converted the garage to living space. We corrected the Building Dept issues but didn't know the Dept of Health also had an open violation file until I tried to get my garage/shop permits.

I have to add more leach field to bring it up to code.

You need to get copy of your county's septic requirements and your system's permit. You may need to add a bigger tank, more leach field, or both.

 

[dude67]

A friend of mine bought a house with a detached garage and was all ready plumbed for a toilet. It did not have the rough plumbing out to the tank yet so. He bought one of those blue plastic 55 gal barrels and used that as a septic tank put about 10 ft. of lateral line in and ask people to go #2 inside the house not in the garage, as not to have any problems. Just an idea. If you have nosy neighbors they will rat you out if some authorities come asking questions. but if you live in the country. I don't see why they would come looking.

 

[Falcon67]

So if they go by bedrooms and you modify the house to 4 br / 4 bath you can get a permit? If you are not adding a bedroom, sounds like a rather conservative reading of the local code. Might see if you can get a copy of the code and see what it really says. If the code says "bedroom" then you ought to be permitted for 18 toilets in a 4 br house if you like. Tell 'em you have a medical condition

 

[dude67]

I just had a new septic tank put in in April. And yes they go by how many bedrooms. I have a 5 bedroom/ 2 bath house and they think that 2 people per bedroom is how to figure the tank capacity. It's just my wife, daughter and I that live in the house. They have to figure on a larger that expected family to move in if you sell. I kinda can see both sides of the fence here. The joys of owning a large house!

 

[djkeev]

So if they go by bedrooms and you modify the house to 4 br / 4 bath you can get a permit? If you are not adding a bedroom, sounds like a rather conservative reading of the local code. Might see if you can get a copy of the code and see what it really says. If the code says "bedroom" then you ought to be permitted for 18 toilets in a 4 br house if you like. Tell 'em you have a medical condition

True statement. "X" number of people will only produce "Y" quantity of Blackwater.
Like I said, SF has some restrictions for sizing n addition to bedrooms. Is your Rec room pushing you pr SF to a higher septic bracket?

Me? I'd do It anyway knowing that if I sell, I'll need to yank the toilet and the pump and fill the hole in the new "closet" floor!
Too much well meaning regulation that has gone awry in this land of the "Free"!

Dave

 

[Joe Reed]

Just plant a couple of trees. Works out just fine on the golf course....

 

[Thruxton]

This:

Another good version of that is called a "door".. Just step outside through it, and there you go...

 

[jpinca]

Here's the data to was given to me by my DEH:

 

[Steevo]

I am sure glad I am on a sewer connection, and not a septic system.
County didn't bat an eye when I got my permit for my shop with a full bath in it.

 

[Falcon67]

Neighbor has an "undocumented" connection on an empty lot, asked me why I didn't tie the shop in LOL. Wife drew the line at potties, saying she wasn't going to be any kind of "shop widow"

Looks like bedrooms - I'd ask them how come they thought I could pee in two places at once.