Above 1200 Sq/FT PNW off grid compound

[sjvicker]

We spent the past 2 weeks working long days and finally have most of the structure up. Generally, it was pretty straightforward to do the build since its so repetitive but it was a ton of labor and the heat wave wasn't helping.

Initially I thought nail laminated posts would be a good idea but they wound up with a warp to them that meant each post needed to be pushed with a wedge board or pulled with a ratchet strap before each girt could be installed. Next time I'll try to source factory laminated posts and even if it costs more, the increase in build speed and post straightness will be worth it. Also, the dimensional lumber wasn't super consistent in width and as much as I tried to keep it aligned while nailing it off I do have some variation that I'm worried will show through the girts and metal.

I also learned that if I leave my charge controller on for my well and it overflows my cistern, about 8 hours later that water makes it down the hill and floods the area next to the shop. I have plans to put in a ditch here before winter but for now it fills the uncompacted area next to the foundation and creates a clay/mud pit for a few days until it all dries out.

 

[Adaylate]

Your build is looking great!
Have you found anyone for concrete?

 

[sjvicker]

Your build is looking great!
Have you found anyone for concrete?

Yeah, I found a local company that has some solid recommendations and I'm on their schedule for late next week. If I like their work I'll immediately have them quote another pour to start getting some aprons around the buildings.

The rush is on right now for me to finish everything inside the building that I need equipment to reach and then I need to do another round of sub grade compaction and get my vapor barrier down and inspected.

 

[Adaylate]

Yep, things seem to happen when we have deadlines!
Glad you found someone for the concrete.
Good luck!

 

[sjvicker]

We're finally done landing posts and trusses! It feels good to have that in the rearview mirror and be on to other things.

If anyone is building this style of pole barn, a few pieces of advice. #1, make sure your trusses are perfectly aligned when building the assemblies and #2 make sure your perlin marks and blocking is consistent, even consider doing minimal blocking on the ground and using a string to do the rest in the air. When I built my truss assemblies I had a couple that were about 1/4" off from each other and that combined with being a little inconsistent with marking the blocking and the blocking shifting a little when being nailed off means my perlins are wavy in both directions. Since I'm sheeting this with OSB before doing standing seam metal, I'm not too concerned with the wave but I'd really struggle if I was screwing metal directly to these perlins.

After all of these years and projects I finally had my first Milwaukee tool fail. My circ saw seems to have developed a dead short and unfortunately I smoked 2 batteries trying to figure out the problem. One of those batteries was a $200 12ah one so I'm really hoping Milwaukee honors the warranty on that.

Between today and Wednesday I should be done with all of the perlins and be focused on truss blocking.

 

[billconner]

Just curiosity. A truss every 8', notched into post? Purlins look beefy - what are they and are they dropped into joist hangers? And last - what are the struts against interior posts? Just pieces leaned against them? Kind of interesting, like an abstract tree.

 

[sjvicker]

The trusses sit on 18" chunks of 2x8 that are attached to the sides of the posts. Blocking and truss ends each get 6 structural lags. Its kind of funny that for decks mounting to the side of the posts is a huge no-no but all pole barns in the PNW are built this way.

The perlins are 2x4's that rest on top of the trusses and connect to the truss assemblies by a piece of blocking. IMO its a pretty horrible way of connecting perlins to trusses because each block is only 6"x9" and has over 15 nails in it. There's just too much of a risk of splitting at the block and the perlin ends. In some cases where the perlin ends cracked I sistered a 4' chunk of 2x4 to bridge the perlin ends and strengthen things.

Those "struts" against the interior wall posts are the fly rafters for each truss end to create the eaves. If you look closely at the roof you can see the far side has about half of them installed with the perlins added to them.

 

[sjvicker]

I finished the fly rafters on Tuesday and the rat runs yesterday so the trusses are officially done. This weekend we'll be tackling the leanto roof and fascia then prepping for our vapor barrier inspection on Monday.

If that all goes well we'll jump into the main structure fasica and squaring up the building.

 

[sjvicker]

Today marks the 1 month point since we stood up the first wall and its amazing to see the long days and hard work paying off.

We finished up the leanto rafter, recompacting the gravel and the vapor barrier this past weekend. For the vapor barrier I went with a 10mil yellow guard material that I purchased through home depot. Each roll was about 3000sqft and I used 2 complete rolls and doubled it up in areas where I think the concrete company would be driving trucks if they decide to not use a pump.

For me this week is all about the eaves, finishing up the girts and I'll be having the slab poured on Thursday.

 

[Adaylate]

Your build is looking great!
Good luck on Thursday!

 

[mattthemuppet]

Ditto! That's an amazing amount of work and it looks fantastic. Following along

 

[sjvicker]

I've been reading posts here for years about bad slabs and shady concrete contractors so I was nervous going into this part of the project but I shouldn't have been. 5 guys poured 62 yards yesterday starting around 7am and finished packing up around 4pm. The finish far exceeded my expectations and I will definitely be giving them a call when I need to do the exterior concrete.

The 10mil yellow guard vapor barrier seems to have held up to the trucks driving on it and I'm glad I doubled it up in some areas where I knew they'd have a truck on it.

I have a bit of analysis paralysis on what to do next with the slab. One corner will be epoxy but for the rest of it I'm considering a densifier and/or sealer. I'm considering using TS210 sealer as it seems like a cost effective solution.

 

[sjvicker]

Things are moving along. Last weekend we got the OSB on the leanto roof and this week I've finished the eave fascia on the South side and will be into sheeting the South side of the roof after work if the weather holds out. I ended up being .25" out of square on the leanto so I didn't bother correcting it and I'm 3.25" out of square on the main shop before pulling it into square which I dont think is too bad given the size of the building.

Some lessons learned for anyone following along that wants to build one of these on their own.

1. I dont have a fancy 12' long level so I used a plumb bob to ensure the posts on the west wall are vertical. This worked great but I didn't account for the truss having some bend in it above one of the doors. I should have caught this when I was installing the perlins but figured since both posts were good that I wouldn't have an issue in the middle. I then made things worse by measuring 22.5" off the truss to cut every perlin so now one side of my gable fasica has a visible bow to it that I'll need to correct somehow. Lesson learned, check for bow and use a string line to cut all eave rafters.

2. Have the foundation compacted on the outside of the building as well. I didn't do this and now that I've run around a bunch with the scissor I now have uneven areas where its too unlevel to go up. Nothing's more frustrating to me than getting 10' up and hitting the off-level cutoff then having to go back down and throw some blocking under a tire.

3. Managing materials is a ton of labor and time and is easily forgotten in the planning. By plan, I shorted myself on 2x12's for the door framing and eave fascia from my bulk order so I could go pick out "good" ones at Home depot. It was an hour and a half to get the materials and get it strapped down and they aren't light weight at that size

4. I could have saved money by renting the telehandler twice, once to do the main framing then spending a month to wrap up odds and ends and renting it again to do the roof OSB and metal roofing.

5. I'm more physically exhausted than I've ever been in my life and have no choice but to keep working every minute I can. I somewhat expected this but not to this level.

 

[Uncle murph]

Things are moving along. Last weekend we got the OSB on the leanto roof and this week I've finished the eave fascia on the South side and will be into sheeting the South side of the roof after work if the weather holds out. I ended up being .25" out of square on the leanto so I didn't bother correcting it and I'm 3.25" out of square on the main shop before pulling it into square which I dont think is too bad given the size of the building.

Some lessons learned for anyone following along that wants to build one of these on their own.

1. I dont have a fancy 12' long level so I used a plumb bob to ensure the posts on the west wall are vertical. This worked great but I didn't account for the truss having some bend in it above one of the doors. I should have caught this when I was installing the perlins but figured since both posts were good that I wouldn't have an issue in the middle. I then made things worse by measuring 22.5" off the truss to cut every perlin so now one side of my gable fasica has a visible bow to it that I'll need to correct somehow. Lesson learned, check for bow and use a string line to cut all eave rafters.

2. Have the foundation compacted on the outside of the building as well. I didn't do this and now that I've run around a bunch with the scissor I now have uneven areas where its too unlevel to go up. Nothing's more frustrating to me than getting 10' up and hitting the off-level cutoff then having to go back down and throw some blocking under a tire.

3. Managing materials is a ton of labor and time and is easily forgotten in the planning. By plan, I shorted myself on 2x12's for the door framing and eave fascia from my bulk order so I could go pick out "good" ones at Home depot. It was an hour and a half to get the materials and get it strapped down and they aren't light weight at that size

4. I could have saved money by renting the telehandler twice, once to do the main framing then spending a month to wrap up odds and ends and renting it again to do the roof OSB and metal roofing.

5. I'm more physically exhausted than I've ever been in my life and have no choice but to keep working every minute I can. I somewhat expected this but not to this level.

Very interesting and beautiful project. I also appreciate the notes and do/donts that you have shared. Thanks

 

[sjvicker]

This should be a milestone week. Over the next 2 days I have to finish some OSB on the roof and 3 door headers then I'm ready to call for my framing inspection. If that all goes well I'll be starting soffit metal and fascia trim this weekend.

I wasn't too sure how to finish out the door framing with the stem wall so I spaced off of the adjacent posts to hold the sides of the door framing and I kept it 7/16" off the slab surface. To stop water wicking into the wood I painted the concrete surfaces that would be close to the wood with dryloc paint and I also put a few strips of sill plate gasket between the framing and the wall.

I'm not 100% sure if I need to anchor the door frames to the concrete. I know it would help if I ever saw a large wind load but they are nailed off to every girt and the spacer blocks.

 

[billconner]

looks good. I did similar to what you describe except I had some PVC trim scrap that I cut to fit under long jambs. Seem better than a space, for mice etc if nothing else.

 

[sjvicker]

looks good. I did similar to what you describe except I had some PVC trim scrap that I cut to fit under long jambs. Seem better than a space, for mice etc if nothing else.

good idea. I was thinking about shoving some stainless steel wool in there from the back side but the punch list is so long I'll likely forget that until I start seeing evidence of mice.

 

[sjvicker]

The metal install begins! I hated doing the soffit corners the most on the shed and that has not changed for the shop build. One good thing is since they're 20' in the air, a few scratches or it being a little off isn't noticeable from the ground.

I did change the soffit metal install process from what I did on the shed. On the shed I followed the instructions 100% where the soffit metal is installed last and rests in a channel on the building and buts up against the facia board and rests on the fascia metal. This meant every piece had to be fished into place and then held down from above while screwing up to connect the metal on the fascia side. It was a nightmare to do at height and leaves screws every foot into the bottom of the fascia metal. For the shop I am nailing it up with roofing nails in the flange then capping it on the fascia and butting the wall J up to the bottom of it on the building side. It's a much faster, and I think cleaner install.

I ordered the soffit metal in 10'6" lengths and have been cutting it to fit in a jig I built using a Diablo steel demon 70 tooth blade for thin metals in a Milwaukee M18 circular saw. These blades are pretty impressive but I did find that even one cut on wood with them will greatly reduce their life.




Also the septic company has been working and expects to complete the system this week. Based on our Perc we needed a mound system but we didn't have enough space available so the solution is a Glendon system. Pretty interesting how its coming together.

 

[billconner]

Neat! Love the progress.

 

[sjvicker]

We were able to start roof metal this past weekend and I found my first major mistake. My standing seam panels are too short by about 4" which is how much extra I need to accommodate the end dam and vent pieces.

It's not my first mistake and wont be my last. Thankfully all I need to do is get a custom cap formed so its no big deal. I can fix my panel length issue and use this ridge cap when we build the house in a couple of years.

 

[sjvicker]

Almost another month has passed and we've been able to complete all of the roof metal (minus the ridge) and start into the wall metal.

With the days getting shorter and the rains coming back it seems like we've lost some weeknight momentum but at least the end is in sight.

 

[Adaylate]

Hello SJ
I see you have garage doors!
Are they Clopay?

 

[sjvicker]

Hello SJ
I see you have garage doors!
Are they Clopay?

Yup, they're Clopay 4300. I quoted two companies and the significantly lower quote was the company with these. The larger company quoted an industrial rated Clopay door which I'm sure would have been great but I couldn't stomach the extra cost. These will work fine in a shop.

 

[sjvicker]

This past weekend I was able to get the inverters wired to the bus bars and mount up the well pump controller to the gutter channel. Next up, I'll be connecting the battery banks to the bus bars with 4/0. All cables from batteries to bus bars and bus bars will be exactly the same length.

I am permitting this work and this far beyond any electrical work I've done in the past so if anyone see's red flags, please let me know what I should be correcting.

 

[sjvicker]

Last weekend we finished up the gray metal and are now down to a relatively small punchlist remaining before we can request our final inspection. I know having the Z strip on the gable isn't ideal but as DIYers I dont think that we could have managed the 24' panels to do it without the transition piece.

To anyone looking to build their own shop, the Milwaukee M12 nibbler is a lifesaver for doing the vertical and horizontal cuts in the metal. I bought the M18 shear but it was scratching the panels more than I liked.

 

[billconner]

I look forward to these posts. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Looking good. Has to be nice to have things pretty much closed up at this point.

 

[Jayman17]

Nice color combo and nice size shop.

 

[ericm]

I agree, nice colors.

The strip on the gable end looks good. It breaks up that expanse of siding.

 

[sjvicker]

Thanks everyone! It is very nice to have it all closed up.

Yesterday I wasn't feeling super motivated so I just did some cleanup and ran one 100' string of hyperlight work lights. It's pretty impressive how much light 100w of LED's will provide.

If I can get a little decent weather this weekend I think I can submit for final inspection on Monday. More than anything I'm excited to get that scissor out of here, its getting expensive!

 

[rd65]

Hope you fared well in the windstorm last week. Got a bit breezy up in our neck of the woods.

 

[sjvicker]

Hope you fared well in the windstorm last week. Got a bit breezy up in our neck of the woods.

Yeah, the wind was whipping for sure but at the shop it didn't do anything other than move a few empty boxes around. Having the wall metal complete really stiffened up the structure so I'm not really concerned about it anymore.

 

[sjvicker]

It was pretty dry on Friday so I was able to finish up all of the roof work and call to get the scissor picked back up. Not much to show for it since it was just odds and ends that dont really show well in photos.

It ended up raining all weekend so I focused on getting the power system turned on and charged up with a generator. I dont have any solar panels connected right now but its a good feeling that with some extension cords I now have power to the shed and shop for lights and tools to keep going.

The generator charges the batteries through an EG4 chargeverter (48v charger) and the generator burns about 1 gallon of gas for every 10% of battery capacity. I'll only be using the system for lights and tools and shutting it all off otherwise so I'm curious how long I can last before the batteries get back down to 50%.





Between the cut into the hillside and the shop roof we are getting a ton of water runoff. We dug this trench as a temporary ditch to get us through the winter and keep water away from the foundation as much as possible and it seems to be working pretty good.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Those scissor lift bills do add up fast so I feel you on that.

Do you have any long term plans for gutters or do you plan to manage water runoff with grade instead?

 

[sjvicker]

Right now I'm planning on gutters shedding water to the east (towards that trench in the photo above) and grading also sending it to the east. I really want to avoid a culvert under my driveway to the west if I can and I definitely dont want French drains that will clog up over time.

We have to do some more cutting into the hillside to finalize our plans. The ultimate goal is to have enough of the hillside graded out to be able to pull a truck and 5th-wheel RV into the leanto bay and out the back door (top left of that photo above) and do a loop around the shed and back to the driveway.

 

[Adaylate]

SJ
You're moving right along on your project.
We sure have been getting our share of rain!
I don't know if you have anyone lined up to do your gutters but I was sure happy with Gutter Done out of Adna. Russ Nailon is the owner. I used the commercial size mostly because of my 10 -12 pitch and I just wanted a downspout on one end.

 

[Adaylate]

Just found Nailon's # in case you want a bid....
360.880.4405

 

[sjvicker]

Thanks! I'll give him a call when I'm ready to do the gutters. I'll probably just deal with it this year and do the gutters in the summer. It's too soft to even get a scissor lift around the back side of the building right now anyways

 

[Adaylate]

You're welcome.
They just used ladders on mine. 12' foot walls, 52' run. Even did my second story with ladders.
Going to try to get a few pieces of Hardie shingle panels on the dormer today...wish me luck!

 

[gba2331]

It’s a bit late to say this, but I really liked the mechanical screed machine they used for the pour, that was cool!